Leixia Punishment Guide

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BrewtusBibulus

Get your eSports on!
This needs to be done, so I'm going to start it.

This is a list of her moves in order of fastest to slowest for punishment. If one is free the others are free permitting spacing:AA
6B
6KK
4K
3B
After that I don't really know what to use for more damage

A,K - 6KK
3A - 6KK
1A - FC 3B
1AA - 3B
4AA - FC 3B
4AAA - 3B
4[A]AA(BE) - 6KK (only against a wall)
4AB - 6KK

6BK - 6KK
3B - 4K
2BB - 3B

3KK - 6KK or 4K with your back to a wall to prevent pushback
2K/FC K - 6KK
1K - 4K

WR A+B - AA
WR B+K - AA (not at all spacings)
B+K - AA
B+K,B - 3B
2B+KBBB - FC 3B (This move will push you out of range, so you can practically use whatever you want to whiff punish from there)
6B+K - AA if your back is to the wall to prevent pushback

11AA - 6KK
22B (and all variations) - 3B (or wait for her to land and use move of choice... Personally I like to go for 44[A] once I see them do the 2nd part)
44_11_77B - 6KK
66K - 4K
33K - AA
44K - AA
44KA - 4K
44KAB - 4K
66B+K,A_66B+KAB - Duck 2nd hit and FC 3B, negates any delay timing or mixup based on 3rd hit or no 3rd hit

CE - 3B (probably something much better you can do with -30 but I'm fucking tired)

236A - 3B
236AA - 4K (spacing permitting) 6KK from all spacings
236B - 4K
236K - 3B

aB - 3B
3A - 4K (spacing dependant)
1A - FC 3B
1AB - 3B (-24 and point blank... anyone got a better idea?)
4aB - 4K
4aBB - 4K (spacing dependant)
WR A - 6KK
WR AB - 4K

B - 6KK
BB - 6B
BBB - 4K
bA - 4K (there is a wonky aGI after this move so 6KK gets GI'd but 4K does not... I don't get it but 4K works and that's all I need to know :) )
6BB - 6KK
3B - AA/6B
1B - AA/6B
4B - AA/6B
4BK - 6KK or duck the 2nd hit and FC 3B
WR B - AA (spacing dependant and you usually only get the first hit)

6K - 4K (spacing dependant)
2K - 6KK
1K - FC 3B
4KK - AA
WR K - AA (spacing dependant)

3A+B
2A+B
4A+B
8A+B
WR A+B
2B+K

GSL started, I will finish this later
 

Adam-Loses

[08] Mercenary
I'd like to help with this, are there any specific characters you'd like tested against? So I don't end off doing the same list as you/someone else.
 

MystSilver

[09] Warrior
I was intending to work on Raph (lost to a Raph recently partially because I had no idea what he could do, and partially because he was better than me) but it'll probably be a couple of days before I can.
 

Adam-Loses

[08] Mercenary
I was intending to work on Raph (lost to a Raph recently partially because I had no idea what he could do, and partially because he was better than me) but it'll probably be a couple of days before I can.
Oh good I'm hating Raph atm, I find him even more frustrating than SCIV Raph, probably because I also have no idea what he's doing yet, haven't seen enough of him.

So yeah I look forward to knowing where I can stop him and punish him xD

I think I'll go for Aeon to begin with, since he's my friends main and I play him all the time so that helps.
 
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BrewtusBibulus

Get your eSports on!
Just post your findings up ASAP! I'm not testing stuffs I don't post up, so what you see is what you get and I'm going to run with whatever characters I want to know about. That list is basically the characters I lose to on any given tournament outing.
 

ShinjiUrahara

ATL's FINEST Leixia SA Mod
Add her 6B. This move is fast enough to punish Natsu's A,A,BBB... It is very good because of reach and does good poke dmg.
 

MystSilver

[09] Warrior
Not all punishment is based entirely on frame data, some moves leave you too far away for stuff like AA to hit.
 

Kalas

[13] Hero
I'm sorry, I can't find the spoiler function.

Algol

6AA - AA
6AAB - 6KK (4K for wallsplat/RO)
3AA - 6KK
1A - 6KK (4K for wallsplat/RO)
4A - AA
4AB - 3B

3B - 6KK (4K for wallsplat/RO)
3BB - 6KK
1B - AA (on closerange only)
4B - 3B
4BA - 3B
623B - 3B
WR B - 6B, 6KK (not on max. range)
WR 8B - 6KK (4K for wallsplat/RO)

2K - 6KK
1K - 6KK (4K for wallsplat/RO)
4K - 6B, AA (not on max. range)
FC 2K - 6KK
WR K - 6KK
WR KK - 6KK (4K for wallsplat/RO)

2B+K - 6KK

66A - AA
11AA - 3B
33B - 6KK (4K for wallsplat/RO)
33BB - 6KK
11B - FC 3B
11K - 6KK (4K for wallsplat/RO)
66B+K - 6KK

QI K - 3B

CE - 6KK when in range

That's a punishment guide only, so I did not include other options like stepping or GI'ing strings.

And it's good to know that as far as you can punish something with at least 6B, you might as well punish with CE which is i12.

Natsu

AAB - 6B
6AB - AA
3A - AA
1A - FC 3B
4A - FC 3B
WR AA - AA
WR AAA - 3B

3B - 3B
4B - 6KK
WR B - AA

KKK - 6KK (lol)
KK2K - 6KK
6K - 6KK (4K for wallsplat/RO)
2K - 6KK (4K for wallsplat/RO)
1K - 6KK
3KKK - 6KK (btw, 6KK also works against 3KK 2_8B+K no matter which attack Natsu does afterwards)
4KK - 6KK
8KA - 3B

A+B - AA
6A+B - 6KK (4K for wallsplats/RO)

66AB - 6KK
11A - FC 3B
44A - 6KK
44[A] - 6KK
66B - 6KK (not on max. range)
22B - AA
44B - AA (not on max. range)
66K - 6KK (4K for wallsplats/RO)
22KA - 3B
44K - 6KK (4K for wallsplats/RO)

PO A6/A:6 - 6KK
PO K - 3B
PO B+K - FC 3B

Wind Roll A - 6KK

Distorted Breeze B - AA
Distorted Breeze KA - 3B
 
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BrewtusBibulus

Get your eSports on!
Just for clarity, stepping/ducking/aGIing during strings should be considered punishment. This only fails to apply when the opponent can press a mixup to punish you for doing that option. If there is way to see them start and do something otherwise safe which can result in free damage, DO IT!

Like Pyrrha 66B+KAB there is no reason to ever punish the B. She has no way to hit you for ducking after the first part and if she continues you get free damage. The same goes for interruptable strings. Sure for the sake of being complete, list the proper punishes. Just make sure you cover all the bases of how to punish said character for doing moves
 

Windstar

[13] Hero
The only time Pyrrha would ever do 66B+KAB is after a 4B. Anyone who does otherwise, probably isn't playing too good (luckily, this move is pretty steppable).
 

Kalas

[13] Hero
I took your first two lists as an example. And since you didn't include step or aGIs (for example 4A+B the second hit of Cervantes' 6BB, or the last hit of his FC A+B), I didn't either.
Btw, stepping is another story... you can step so many strings in SC5, but it's rarely a sort of "punishment" (maybe anticipated whiffpunishment), because your opponent doesn't have to finish them.
So I understood this thread as some kind of "block punishment" thread, but of course I see what you mean.

And my lists of Algol & Natsu doesn't have any "crouch and whiffpunish" remarks (like Pyrrhas 66B+KAB), cause I didn't found any strings that end with highs (except for Natsus strings that end with her PO A, but that's not something you can react to).
 

MystSilver

[09] Warrior
Natsu's 66B BE's second hit is high, it can be ducked on reaction, and she can't cancel the second hit after she's hit the BE.

So that should probably count.
 

MystSilver

[09] Warrior
Raph punishment data! This is all about stuff after block, so nothing about stepping when you predict or anything. I'll work on the steps and whatnot for all the single hits later. Let me know if you see any inconsistencies or a way to better optimize damage.

-AB
6KK, CE
Second hit can be punished with 8A/B/K, but is not garunteed because of AA.
Second hit can be GI'd.

-6AB *
6KK, 4K, CE
Second hit can be ducked easily.
Second hit can be AGI'd with 4A+B CE

-1A
6KK

-4A
6KK, 4K, CE

-8A
AA (range permitting), CE

-BB
CE only.

-BBB
6KK or 4K->CE
Third hit can be stepped to Raph's left.
Third hit can be GI'd

-6BB *
AA (range permitting), CE

-6BBB
6KK or 4k->CE
Third hit can be stepped to Raph's left.
Third hit can be GI'd

-6BB BE
FC A, CE
Third hit can be AGI'd with 4A+B. Yellow flash = free damage.
Third and final hits can be GI'd
Final hit can be stepped to Raph's left.

-3B *
6KK (range permitting), CE

-4B *
6KK (range permitting), CE (range permitting)
May be punished with a crouch and a FC A or B on reaction, but you have to be quick.

-236B
FC A (range permitting), CE

-FC 3B
6KK (range permitting), CE

-6K
AA, CE

-2K/FC K
FC A (range permitting), CE

-1K
6KK, CE, 4k(Seems to vary with range... farther away it hits, close up it gets blocked. Unless I'm just messing something up.)

-BT 2K
FC A, CE

-A+B
3B->3B+K, 3B->CE

-A+B A
FC A, CE
Last hit can be hopped with 8B and 8K. 8A will go over his head.
Last hit can be GI'd

-66A
AA, CE

-99_33A
6KK, 4K, CE

-22_88A
AA (range permitting), CE

-44A
3b->3B+K, 3B->CE

-44AB *
6KK (Range permitting), 4k (Range permitting), CE

-33_99B
6KK (Range permitting), CE,

-44B
6KK (Range), 4k (Range), CE (Range)
Can be sidestepped or avoided with 44B on reaction, but you have to be quick.

-11_77B
6KK, FC A (Range), CE

-11_77BB
FC A (Range), CE
Second hit can be hopped with 8K and 8B, 8A will whiff.
Second hit can be GI'd

-33_99K
3B->3B+K, 3B->CE

-33_99KB
6KK, 4k, CE

-11_77K
6KK, CE

-66B+K
FC A, CE

-Run K
FC 3B->6A+B, FC 3B->CE

-CE
3B->3B+K, 3B->CE

-Prep AB
6KK, CE
Second hit can be easily ducked, or AGI'd with 4A+B

-Prep BB
6kk, CE

-Prep BBB
6kk, 4K, CE
Last hit can be sidestepped, GI'd, or AGI'd with 4A+B. Why would anyone ever do this except on CH?


-Prep BB BE
FC A, CE
Third hit can be AGI'd with 4A+B, time it right when you see the yellow and this move is free damage for you and a waste of meter for them. Does crazy block damage, so practice your AGI if you see a Raph in your future.
Third and final hits can be GI'd.


-Prep K
6KK, 4k, CE

-Prep K BE
0 on block, but the second hit can be easily ducked once you see the first kick hit your guard.
Second hit can be GI'd

-Prep A+B
FC 3B->6A+B, FC 3B->CE
Can be hopped on reaction with 8K or 8B. 8A will whiff.
Hell, can be interrupted on reaction with 6KK if you're quick.

Preperation summary: If they go into preperation on block they are either asking to be smacked around, going into SEV, or planning on using a BE. Probably Prep BB BE, but that's also free to us.

-SEV K
FC A, CE

You can CE after any 4k, but since a regular old CE punishes even faster, is much easier to do, and does more damage, you may just want to use the CE. Unless you'd rather confirm the hit before you use your meter.

6KK for meterless damage/positioning, 4k for ringouts/wallsplat, CE for raw damage if you have meter to burn.

*Raph can go into preperation from this move; if he does, punishments do not nessecarily apply. However 6KK will stuff everything he can do except Prep 4, which will avoid it. Even then I think that only applies if he goes into prep from 3[B ]. Just keep it in mind. Oh, and an early quickstep seems to avoid every preparation option besides Prep A.

None of this is taking JG into account, but several of his moves (and anyone's, for that matter) are easily JG'd on reaction with some practice (I myself have been working on 66B, I can get it regularly in training mode with little effort but am still working on using it in combat.)
 

Kalas

[13] Hero
Oh yes, of course. I forgot about the brave edges. You're right about crouching the last hit of Natsus 66B BE. Thanks.

Ivy

AA - 4A+B the second hit or crouch and whiffpunish with FC 3B
[A] - same as AA
6AK - crouch and whiffpunish with FC 3B
6[A] - 3B (not on max. range)
3[A] - 3B
1A - 6KK (not on max. range)
WR [A] - 6KK (or 4K for wallsplats/RO, doesn't work on max. range)

(B) - FC 3B (not on max. range, you can QS the second hit though)
bK - 6KK (or 4K for wallsplats/RO)
6B8K - 8B inbetween, but it won't hit her if she stops after 6B8
6(B)2_8 - run in and 66K (not on max. range)
214B - 6KK (not on max. range)
FC 1(B) - 6KK
FC 1B - whiffpunish with FC 3B
Jump B - 6KK (or 4K for wallsplats/RO. doesn't work on max. range)

6KB_6KBK - 3B after B, it will interrupt the last K and punish 6KB
1K - FC 3B

4A+BB- interrupt with AAB
8A+BB - 3B
8A+B(B) - run in and 66AA
WR A+BA - crouch the last hit and FC 3B

66[A] - punish with 6KK, interrupt with AAB
22_88A - AA
11A - FC 3B (not on max. range)
44[A] - 3B
22(B) - AAB punishes and beats B follow-ups
22(B) BBB - 6KK (or 4K for wallsplat/RO)
44BB - 6KK
44BBB - whiffpunish with whatever you like (FC 3B)
22K - FC 3B
44K - FC 3B
44A+B - 6KK

1B BE - 4A+B the 2nd hit
6B8 BE - 3B
22B BE - 4A+B the 2nd hit (first hit of 4A+B will whiff but Ivy will get hit by the 2nd hit)
CE - 4A or B+K in the slow motion


Patroklos

3A - AA
1A - 6KK

6BB_6BBB - 1B+K after the first hit, if you block everything punish with 6KK
3B - 6KK (or 4K for wallsplats/RO)
WR B - AA

3KK - crouch the 2nd hit and FC 3B
1K - 6KK (or 4K for wallsplat/RO)
WR K - 3B
WR KA - counter with 4A+B

2A+B - FC 3B
8A+B - 6B
WR A+B - 6KK (or 4K for wallsplat/RO)
B+K - 6KK

22AA_[A] - crouch the 2nd hit and FC 3B
33B - AA
11B - 6KK
66K - 6KK (or 4K for wallsplats/RO)
11K - 6KK
44KK - crouch the 2nd hit and FC 3B
66A+B - AA
66B+K - 3B after the first hit

236A_AB - 6KK (or 4K for wallsplat/RO)
236B - 6KK
236K - 3B

1B BE - 4A+B the 2nd hit
66A BE - 1B+K inbetween

CE - 3B
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
I was working on this the day after i got the game, lol. I didn't test most of what's written here already so that's saves me the work. Anyway here's what i got on Xiba
Xiba:
A,A,K
Best Punish: 6KK
*Can also duck the 2nd A and FC 3B him

6A
Best Punish: AA
*stuffs his K followup as well


3A,B/3A, (to Remembrance Stance)
Best Punish: 4A+B aGI the 2nd hit
*beats anything out of REM. Safe on block if he doesn't commit


33A,A(BE)
Best Punish: 6KK
*Fails at tip range

B,B or B,(into RM)
Best Punish: quickstep between hits and 22B
*It's a vertical so it stuffs the stance aGI

22_88A,B
Best Punish:6KK
*Doesn't punish the stance cancel

66B,B
Best Punish: quickstep to Xiba's back side and 22B
*2nd hit Safe on block

66B,B,B
Best Punish: 3B

11_77B
Best Punish: 6KK

3kB
Best Punish: 6KK
*3B works too but timing is tight

22_88K
Best Punish: FC 3B

66K,B
Best Punish: 6KK

WS K
Best Punish: 6B
*AA is too fast and whiffs over him during recovery

Jump K
Best Punish: 6KK

A+B,B
Best Punish: AA
*also stuffs K followup. 66K also works, but timing to stuff the followup is kinda tight

2A+B
Best Punish: 6KK

1A+B/3A+B(Ankle Throws)
Best Punish: 6KK

On the Ground A+B
Best Punish: FC 3B

6B+K
Best Punish: 4A+B between 1st 2 hits.
*The rest of the move jails so you can't step.

Remembrance Stance
RM A,K
Best Punish: 6KK

RM K
Best Punish: FC 3B

Slide
Best Punish: FC 3B

Here's Siegfried stuff:
Siegfried:
A,A,B or A,A,(to Base Hold)
Best Punish: 6KK
*can also duck 2nd A and FC 3B him*

2A or FC A
Best Punish: 6KK
*timing is really tight*

3A
Best Punish: 6B
*6KK works but has strict timing*

3aA
Best Punish: 6B
*6KK works but has strict timing. both punishes are range dependent*

4A
Best Punish: 6KK

1A,A
Best Punish: 6KK

6B
Best Punish: 3B
*works at mid range or closer*

1B
Best Punish: 6KK
*fails at long range*

66B
Best Punish: FC 3B
*Fails at max range. 66B will force a block however.*

22_88B,B or 22_88B,B4(to Chief Hold)
Best Punish: WS B or WS B(BE) between hits
*Stuffs anything out of Chief hold if he enters stance. Only loses to a slightly delayed SCH B*

2K(Stomp)
Best Punish: 6KK

3K,K,B
Best Punish: 66K

4K,K
Best Punish: 6KK

66K(BE)
Best Punish: 3B

44K(Dropkick)
Best Punish: 3B
*Hits Siegfried grounded.*

WS K
Best Punish: 6KK

A+B,A
Best Punish: 6KK

Base Hold Stance
SBH K or SBH K(BE)
Best Punish: 6KK

SBH A
Best Punish: FC 3B

Reverse Side Hold Stance
SRSH B
Best Punish: 6KK
*3B works as well but timing is kinda short.*

SRSH K or SRSH [K] (to Base Hold)
Best Punish: FC 3B
*Stuffs Base hold aGI and followups. He also can't dodge it with Chief Hold auto step*

Side Hold Stance
SSH AA or SSH [A](to Reverse Side Hold)
Best Punish: 9K between hits
*Fast enough to stop anything from SRSH as well if he enters stance*

SSH B,B or SSH B,B,B
Best Punish: quickstep 22B between hits

SSH K
Best Punish: 6KK
*6B for safety*

Chief Hold Stance
SCH K (without BE)
Best Punish: 6KK
*6B for safety*

SCH K (BE)
Best Punish: quickstep the 2nd hit to Siegfried's front side and 22B
*you can also 44B+G aGI the 2nd hit and 3B if you predict it*

Critical Edge
Best Punish: Critical Edge
*can't punish with anything else*

Slide
Best Punish: FC 3B
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
Pyrrha 66B+KAB there is no reason to ever punish the B. She has no way to hit you for ducking after the first part and if she continues you get free damage. The same goes for interruptable strings.
Also Tim, didn't see it posted, but for Pyrrha, if you block the first part of 66B (BE) you get a free WS B or WS B(BE) Same if you block 4[A]AA(BE) and 236 AA(BE). She'll evade the last hit all the time for some reason.
 

Kalas

[13] Hero
Anti-Xiba
I have some additions for Xiba.

3AB_3A(B)
You can either QS to Xiba's right after the A into 22B. or you can 4A+B after the A. It will counter the B follow-up and beat every option from Rememberance.

6BK_6BK BE
Interrupt him with 2A after the B. It will beat every option, even if Xiba stops after the B and goes into Rememberance manually.

6B+K
4A+B between the 1st and 2nd hit. You cannot punish or step it otherwise, and Xiba cannot cancel it. So 4A+B really is the best way here.

22AB
Punish with 6KK. I can't find anything to beat 22AB and 22A(B) at the same time.

Nice work so far. I will probably edit my other posts in this thread so that it looks better. :)
 

Fuzzieviking

[13] Hero
If you just guard the first hit of an AA you can do JG 4A+B. Pretty hawt, if you do JG 4A+B CE it = 92 damage on an AA punish lmao
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
If you just guard the first hit of an AA you can do JG 4A+B. Pretty hawt, if you do JG 4A+B CE it = 92 damage on an AA punish lmao
Can't you just 4A+B after regular blocking the first A? Never tried it so I don't know.

I have some additions for Xiba.
6BK_6BK BE
Interrupt him with 2A after the B. It will beat every option, even if Xiba stops after the B and goes into Rememberance manually.
Man, I know that every time i try this in a live match, I can't do it fast enough to beat the aGI. That's the only reason I didn't post it, since I wasn't sure if it worked 100%. I know it works after 6A and A+B,B though.