Lesser known advanced mechanics of SC5

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AndyrooSC

IVE WAITED FOR THIS!!!
Inspired by @DrakeAldan and his articles the basics of soulcalibur.

You have been playing for a while now and at this point you have a fairly good understanding of how SCV's mechanics work. Then 1 game you go up against a skilled high level opponent and he manages to JG your follow up attack after he whiffed a GI. (say wha?? i thought he was completely open he whiffed?)

Or your watching a offline tournament on YouTube and Natsu goes for her whiff punish combo to end the set - 66B BE > 1A and somehow they got out the guaranteed combo and JG'd the 1A.

Its pretty game changing stuff you've managed to free yourself out of your seemingly inevitable doom and completely switch the momentum.

Oh you didn't know about this stuff? It seems alot of players don't or simply have no idea how to do so.

Lets list these fabled mechanics.

446G

This mechanic is a fairly easy one to master. Usually if your opponent CEs while your in the middle of a backstep you would be caught however if press 446G during the CE animation you will cancel your backstep and be able to block the CE and punish it.
This can be practiced in training mode by setting the computer as Pyrrha and recording her do 1K > CE. Backstep after the 1K and press 446G during the CE animation. (Yoshi CE would be done by 4462G).

22/88G

Certain CEs have step catching/tracking properties to them however they is also a way to cancel your step into block to avoid punishment. If you step with 8 before the CE animation press 88G or if stepped with 2 press 22G both with allow you to go into guard.
All you have to do is remember which way you stepped before the CE so it will help to have this in mind when that Hlide has a bar of meter half screen :P
(Thanks Hyrul for this one)

Step 6G

This one isnt spoke of much at all probably because its forgotten about. When you step sideways (not quickstep) and press 6G if you were to get hit by a horizontal move the move will still hit you but it will not get its CH properties. This means two slightly better outcomes could occur - you possibly take less damage from the move (Pyrrha 66A does 28 on NH and 33 on CH) and if the moves has additional effects on CH such as a knockdown, extra frame advantage or a stun combo they will not occur, Xiba 6A, aPat 8A+BA and Leixia wrA are examples.
This can be practiced in training setting the computer as Leixia and recording her do 2K > wrA.

This mechanic isn't exactly Step G from SC2 but its a slightly safer way to step and learning to react to whiffs if you step a vertical is possible too.

4214214... (Backdash cancel)
This movement manuver has a few names for it - Tekken backdash, korean backdash it all means the same thing, the input is 4- 214 - 214 etc. Its basically a quicker way to backstep repeatedly often used at a distance to effectively “dance“ in and out of your opponents killzone (range).
Characters with a 214 stance must perform it as 4 - 874 - 874 etc.
Whiffed GI into JG

When you whiff a GI you usually cant do anything until you've recovered and when this happens to you vs a higher level player you're going to get whiff punished for it. However they is 1 way out you still have the ability to JG the next oncoming attack, its simply done by JGing the attack they use as normal. Ofc this is easier said than done if they use an attack around i25 or lower its practically impossible to react to which move they have chosen and JG it at the correct time, in this situation you should option select JG roughly when you think your about to get hit.

This can be done to otherwise guaranteed CEs and delayed post GI attempts. Its in these situations where you can react and JG or if the opponent uses the same slower GI response for example ZWEIs 66A+B post GI and Pyrrha 4B post GI.

Effectively you could always GI straight away vs an opponent and have JG as a fail safe option (unless they throw or use a low attack).

Just Ukemi Guard (JUG)

JUG is the second but more risky option to get out of tech traps (the first one being don't tech or you will use a lot of life). When you ukemi you are still able to JG allowing you to get out of otherwise guaranteed damage for example Mitsu's 33K CH > 1A or Nightmare's 6K CH > 1A .

JUGs unlike redJG(which i will explain next) can be done at any point, in order for it to work you cant be mashing ukemi, instead when you get knocked down by Nightmare 6K for example you must ukemi as soon as you can but without mashing the ukemi you need to find the timing when you can ukemi asap once you have this your half way to JUG.

At this point you can JG the oncoming techtrap as if it was a regular JG.

Which way you ukemi is just preference but if its a low tech trap you may find it easier to ukemi down then keep holding down or if its a mid tech trap to ukemi back. This can be practiced in training by setting the computer as Nightmare and recording them doing 6K > 1A.

A list of some JUGable combos -
Mitsu CH 33K > 1A
Nightmare CH 6K > 1A
Nightmare 66A ->1A
Maxi 66B > 4 > BL K BE
Voldo 66K > BT wrB
aPat 66B > 8A+BB > 2A BE > 2143A+B
Aeon's CE

It should be noted that if you fail these JUG during an actual game your going to be eating alot more damage however if your about to lose the round or game anyway you have no reason not to go for them.


Red JG

Now a"red JG" isn't actually red, I believe its called that due to the redish colour of the stun because your are that colour as you JG. What a red JG is when you JUG out of combos which have stun in them, for example Natsu 66B BE > 1A as mentioned before and Nightmare CH NSS K > 2A+B. It is basically a tighter window than JUG still requiring you to ukemi then JG but the two taps of G will be slightly closer together. However unlike JUG they is an extra requirement -

You must be on at least orange health to perform it.

This means if your on blue health you cannot perform this at all so they is no reason to tech and take a tiny bit more damage during this stage.

This also means you cant simply test this training you have to either go on vs mode and have a friend help you or an online friend by making a 1v1 room and setting it to 5 rounds so you can try it together.

You might as well go for this when on yellow health as its a combo which would happen regardless.

List of some red JGable combos -
Patroklos 66B > 66B+K
Natsu 66B BE > 1A

Seigfried Chef hold B > 3B
Cervantes 2A+B > FC > 2A+B
Nightmare CH NSS K > 2A+B
Astaroth CH 6B > 22K > 22B
aPat JFT > JFT
Mitsu 22B > CE

Conclusion

After reading about these lesser known maneuvers i hope you go try a few out in training. All these ive mentioned can be used by all characters so you never know when your in these situations and performing one of these mechanics would safe you and give you that 1 extra shot of making the comeback.

They're some glitches/mechanics which only a few characters can perform or a glitch with a certain move from a character such as Nightmares 33B grim stride cancel/ Patroklos' A+B glitch or ZWEI and Viola's ability to JG a GI as if it were an attack if they can move when Ein or the orb is GI'd.

I would check regularly on your characters soul arena for finds like these or anything which could increase your characters effectiveness.

Shout outs to @TxA and SsyluS for helping me construct this.
 
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Age_of_Truth

[12] Conqueror
Well done Andy, lots of useful info presented concisely.

I would add that you can also cancel sidestep during the CE flash - if you hit 8 before the flash, press 88G, and if you did 2, press 22G. This along with 466G allows you to escape any movement during the CE flash, but you do need to remember which direction you moved so tnat you can then select the appropriate cancel. For this reason, players might generally want to avoid using mashy-type 8wr movement when they are in threat range of the opponent's CE.
 
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AndyrooSC

IVE WAITED FOR THIS!!!
Well done Andy, lots of useful info presented concisely.

I would add that you can also cancel sidestep during the CE flash - if you hit 8 before the flash, press 88G, and if you did 2, press 22G. This along with 466G allows you to escape any movement during the CE flash, but you do need to remember which direction you moved so tnat you can then select the appropriate cancel. For this reason, players might generally want to avoid using mashy-type 8wr movement when they are in threat range of the opponent's CE.
Awesome i will add this to thread
Or if your going to be step killed by Hlide CE if you GI during the animation it makes the CE whiff, properly no reason to do this thanks to 22/88G but its there incase you did forget which direction you used.
 
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Norik

[14] Master
Fantastic work, I'm glad to see people talking about red JG and JUG.

I've found that JUG is the safest option for dealing with Yoshi's deathcopter mixups.
 

Age_of_Truth

[12] Conqueror
Awesome i will add this to thread
Or if your going to be step killed by Hlide CE if you GI during the animation it makes the CE whiff, properly no reason to do this thanks to 22/88G but its there incase you did forget which direction you used.
Good point about Hilde and it is actually useful, as she can use her CE to break your guard. Using the GI whiff stops this happening, without having to time a JG (especially if you already pressed G during/after the flash, which is quite likely, at least in my case). I think from memory that Hilde is at +4 or +7 afterwards (it's months ago I was playing with this so sorry if that's incorrect).
 

m216xlegendx

[10] Knight
I feel like your missing 2 things, maybe someone else mentioned them idk. As a hilde player you learn about these tricks early on cause the way her CE works and also cause you have to be a movement specialist to use hilde.

wavedash- 4214214 Its the fastest way to move backwords over along distance. Upclose its better to use normal backdash. But at range wavedash is way faster.

2bg/8bg- Ok so this was found by signia, with yoshi and hilde if you do 2bg it turns your 20 frame step into a 14 frame step. I dont know what other characters can use this. But hilde and yoshi 100%.

Fun fact about hilde CE, upclose you can step it if your any character but aeon :) Yolo hilde ce is basicly a gimmick. But vs certain players its very effective.
 

ZER0

[13] Hero
I feel like your missing 2 things, maybe someone else mentioned them idk. As a hilde player you learn about these tricks early on cause the way her CE works and also cause you have to be a movement specialist to use hilde.

wavedash- 4214214 Its the fastest way to move backwords over along distance. Upclose its better to use normal backdash. But at range wavedash is way faster.

2bg/8bg- Ok so this was found by signia, with yoshi and hilde if you do 2bg it turns your 20 frame step into a 14 frame step. I dont know what other characters can use this. But hilde and yoshi 100%.

Fun fact about hilde CE, upclose you can step it if your any character but aeon :) Yolo hilde ce is basicly a gimmick. But vs certain players its very effective.
this sounds more like lesser known things about a specific character rather than mechanics that everyone can use...although tbf I actually didn't know about the 8Bg thing
 
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AndyrooSC

IVE WAITED FOR THIS!!!
I feel like your missing 2 things, maybe someone else mentioned them idk. As a hilde player you learn about these tricks early on cause the way her CE works and also cause you have to be a movement specialist to use hilde.

wavedash- 4214214 Its the fastest way to move backwords over along distance. Upclose its better to use normal backdash. But at range wavedash is way faster.

2bg/8bg- Ok so this was found by signia, with yoshi and hilde if you do 2bg it turns your 20 frame step into a 14 frame step. I dont know what other characters can use this. But hilde and yoshi 100%.

Fun fact about hilde CE, upclose you can step it if your any character but aeon :) Yolo hilde ce is basicly a gimmick. But vs certain players its very effective.
coool i was thinking about adding the wavedash one in what is the input for characters with a 214 stance, 4874874? if so im having big trouble doing it i cant get ZWEI to stay in 1 line lol

you mean you can still step verticals with that 8Bg thing? and they dont track?
 

HolyCarp

[14] Master
Well done Andy, lots of useful info presented concisely.

I would add that you can also cancel sidestep during the CE flash - if you hit 8 before the flash, press 88G, and if you did 2, press 22G. This along with 466G allows you to escape any movement during the CE flash, but you do need to remember which direction you moved so tnat you can then select the appropriate cancel. For this reason, players might generally want to avoid using mashy-type 8wr movement when they are in threat range of the opponent's CE.
See, I've read about this tech before, but it never works for me. Against Maxi's 1K CE in training, I can never cancel my sidestep in time to block it. Not with this method, nor any others (I got desperate and even tried buffering the directions to Ivy's CS). I mean, it could be character specific, but that'd surprise me since Omega can generally step everything.

66G also works to cancel your backstep during the CE animation. Not that it matters which of these two inputs you use, but I find there's less room for error with a simple 66G, especially if you need a 662G for Yoshi/Cervy's CE.

Great thread, btw.
 

HolyCarp

[14] Master
Oh, another thing worth noting is that when your attack trades with a grab, you pretty much bypass your recovery frames. Sometimes this means you can get a bigger combo from attacks that have a stun. Here's a video to show you what I'm on about:


Usually bA just gives you a crumple stun, but in this trade Cervy can actually launch him. There are some other cool applications for this too, e.g. a grab trading with NM's GS A gives him a free 3B, or trading with Omega's CE gives her a DNS B or 66B+KAB.


A slightly similar thing happens when the opponent gets hit by a move during one of its later active frames, such as when the opponent does an attack that moves into your attack, but not on the first active frame. For example, in this video Mitsu initially TCs Omega's DNS A, but gets hit towards the end of her animation, allowing her to combo it into a slower move:


Unlike the first one, it's pretty hard to recognise this one in a real match unless you know how to set it up.
 

ZER0

[13] Hero
coool i was thinking about adding the wavedash one in what is the input for characters with a 214 stance, 4874874? if so im having big trouble doing it i cant get ZWEI to stay in 1 line lol

you mean you can still step verticals with that 8Bg thing? and they dont track?
yes guys like ZWEI and Cerv will have to do 4874 onwards...it's a bit weird but it's very doable, the trick is to ultimately revert back to neutral as soon as you can so 4~Neutral~874~Neutral~... mashing it out with give that squiggly movement and to be fair it's not as easy on an XBOX as it is on PS3 pad.

there is a zwei that wave dashed. his name was final life G and his zwei movement was 10 out of 10 look him up.
FLG's wavedash movement = hnnnnng, I use the wavedash so much because of watching him...took me 2 years to figure out how it worked.

coool i was thinking about adding the wavedash one in what is the input for characters with a 214 stance, 4874874? if so im having big trouble doing it i cant get ZWEI to stay in 1 line lol

you mean you can still step verticals with that 8Bg thing? and they dont track?
8Bg/2Bg is basically a safer sidestep I assume
 

Maxou

[11] Champion
See, I've read about this tech before, but it never works for me. Against Maxi's 1K CE in training, I can never cancel my sidestep in time to block it. Not with this method, nor any others (I got desperate and even tried buffering the directions to Ivy's CS). I mean, it could be character specific, but that'd surprise me since Omega can generally step everything.


66G also works to cancel your backstep during the CE animation. Not that it matters which of these two inputs you use, but I find there's less room for error with a simple 66G, especially if you need a 662G for Yoshi/Cervy's CE.

Great thread, btw.
About side step cancel vs "random CEs" : it's character dependent.
You may need to try all characters to check it.
 

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
If you're grounded face up head toward or face down feet toward you can stand up in back turn by pressing K+G or A+B+K. This mechanic is super old as it has been around since the first SC, but I've only started seeing it used more wide spread in SCV. It's very useful for characters who have good BT B+K's.
 

Slade

[14] Master
If you're grounded face up head toward or face down feet toward you can stand up in back turn by pressing K+G or A+B+K. This mechanic is super old as it has been around since the first SC, but I've only started seeing it used more wide spread in SCV. It's very useful for characters who have good BT B+K's.
It can also be used to stand up without pressing G and getting the subsequent 29F JG cooldown, allowing one to JG immediately in certain wakeup situations.
 
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AndyrooSC

IVE WAITED FOR THIS!!!
It can also be used to stand up without pressing G and getting the subsequent 29F JG cooldown, allowing one to JG immediately in certain wakeup situations.
so they could be situations where you could get up with a+b+k and JG otherwise forced blocked stuff? and would your punishment be from BT?
 

Slade

[14] Master
so they could be situations where you could get up with a+b+k and JG otherwise forced blocked stuff? and would your punishment be from BT?
Your character would only stand up in BT if you were in a face down feet towards or face up head towards position.

I haven't tested too many situations (I have a feeling there are still "true" force blocks where one doesn't even have time to JG), but some of Astaroth's nastier 22B stuff and Nightmare's 66B stuff are susceptible to this.

It's really jarring to a lot of players who are used to certain oki options working, too.