Lizzy Strategies!

hobgoblin

hobgoblin

[08] Mercenary
since we have a thread for combos and top10. thought we should have one for how to play lizardman as the beast that he is.
so everybody can go into to detail about how to be the most effective....or just hand out tips!

**please try and stay on topic =P**
 
all start by saying:
that in short, i like to get inside by mainly using 66A. then i use lots of pokes(3A & B,B mostly) and lows and try and lead into a WR K,K,K mixup. i also try and go into LC in and out as much as i can.(going in and out a lot seems to be much more confusing to the oponent then just staying in LC). 8B+K_8[B+K] is amazing on wake up and lizzy has some decent RO options.
my tactics work very well against players, but the thing is, i rarely get a chance to play against good people. so not sure how id hold up in tourny play. and id like to get better.
 
well i guess i'll just reiterate some important stuff. namely LC

some effective ways to get into LC are 4B+K, 33_99A, 44K, and 1K off the top of my head.

i use 4B+K, 44K and 1K the most.

lizzy also has great safe pokes that should be integrated into his game. 3A tracks, is fast, and has reasonable damage.

i use his 9K, wrB, 2B, 2A, 3K and 2K pokes alot

i actually have a question.. has anybody found any solid tech traps with lizzy? i havent so far and i dont think i've read anything regarding them
 
After most launchers 8_9[B+K] catches tech for a quake stun, but I can't find anything guaranteed off a quake stun that you should forego taking free damage off the launcher instead.

Also, I've gotten in the habit of using 1A by itself. I don't know if it's safe or not, but noone is willing to attack you after for fear of the 1AK. If you land a hit FCB is free. 1A and 66B are great moves in his oki game. Any time they are grounded, if they stay still on the ground, either will hit, if they roll sideways, 1A catches. If they stand they have to block either.
 
i find that manually going into LC can be helpful at times, to get in at least one free hit if they just sit there. Depends on who your opponent is and if they can read you. Man, i gotta see some lizzy vids...
 
I have to say I'm a big fan of Liz. I'm a noob who used to spam through SC2 single player with Mina and tried picking up X briefly in 4... couldn't make her work for me. Had my first long session with the game with friends and randomly picked Lizardman. He's the most intuitive character I've played so far. 66a is great.

I have a question. Is it possible to make a CAS for him? Does making CAS change the hitbox for big guys like Asta and Liz?
 
You can make a CAS of him, in fact its probably preferable since there isn't much options when it comes to editing Lizardman himself. I'm not sure about the hitboxes, but from my experience it seems the same to me.

I find most players online can't react to :A:+:K:,:B: during lizard crawl stance. And I don't know about you guys but I almost always go into the crawl stance with 1:(K):. Too predictable perhaps?
 
Moves I use to get into LC (least to most effective for me):
:1::B:+:K::G: (easily punishable)
:3::3::(A): (catches 8-way-runners, but getting it blocked or ducked reallllllly sucks)
:2::3::6: (:A:+:B: shortly after if I know they'll retaliate with something other than a kick)
:4::(B):+:(K): (appears to have hitbox issues for me)
:1::(K): (I use :1::K: and :1::(K): alot for tech traps)
:4::4::(K): (seems to always be my safest bet when up close)

Pokes I abuse (in no particular order):
:B::B:, :3::A:, :3::K:, :4::B:, :K:, :2::K:, :1::B:, :6::B: (unsafe, doesn't track well, so watch it)

Let me know if any of this is inaccurate so I can change it.


My question for you all: has anyone figured any moves out that give +frames on guard, other than :2::2:_:8::8::B:? I'm looking to see how many frame trap options Lizzy has. Thanks.
 
B+K gives advantage on block from what I know. 44A, gives a Guard Crush but I'm not sure about frames on block.
 
isn't 44[A] that gives the crush? i'm not sure if the following B is a GC move also
 
advantage on block

B+K
A+K
88_22 B

That's all I think. thanks guys\

edit: and on a completely unrelated note, Lizardman has a holographic head. Yup. Watch someone spam highs at him while he charges his quake stun and you'll see what I mean. It's ridiculous looking. I'm in practice mode and just noticed this (sorry if it's common knowledge or something) so I figured I'd mention it.
 
I was wondering where you guys are fitting 4[B+K] to get into crawl mixups? I've been trying to branch out some more from my general strategy, but I still don't really use this move, 8B+K_[B+K], or 22B. Like Shaggy, I find 4[B+K] to have pretty poor hitboxes for me. He jumps at them and usually whiffs somehow, but the opponent still blocks anyways because he's not sure what to expect since he was intending to block it, so I usually get LC A quickly after it. Not the most solid strategy.

Anyways, there's differing opinions, but I still advocate ending 11B or CH 66B+K,A,B combos with:
6[K] -> 66B instead of 6[K] -> 44[K] -> LC A.

The wakeup after 66B is still so good that you can quickly pull off another mixup for more damage. Things I do after finishing with 66B are: Another 66B on wakeup, dash 1K (still avoiding crawl usually), 44[K], 3B grounded, 2k grounded, setup with 11B. I've also tried messing with 4[B+K] after that, but again, it always seems to whiff on them. Also just going into crawl with 236 after that combo seems good to me too, most good players are still getting off the ground as you enter stance and are blocking to defend your mixup. Sometimes I'll go straight into 236 -> LC B.

Also, as far as CRWL options go, I'm starting to abandon B+K in favor of K and sometimes B for a few reasons: 1) Jumpers. People are getting used to jumping over lizardman to minimize damage, avoid LC A, LC B+K, even sometimes LC B and leave you stuck in CRWL and backturned - not good. K seems like the reliable mid to counter it. 2) Speed. I'm pretty sure some people are becoming able to read LC B (duck first for the LC A, stand on reaction for LC B) and I know LC B+K is readable. So mostly I prefer to use LC A, LC K, and LC A+K, B is still excellent even on block. LC B if I'm really sure they are going to duck.

P.S. 3B -> 1B -> 66A+B and LC A+K,B -> 1B -> 66A+B. Golden. Credit to DevilJim for that nasty combo.
 
doesnt look like its been posted here BUT
this works on most characters
A+B, 1B, 8[B+K]ub
if they try and interupt it you get counterhit damage too. the closest ive gotten to someone interupting it is amy perfect ukemi then 6BB for SHARED damage. (btw they can only interupt with WS moves)

also for characters that 1B whiffs on,(lizzy, cass, etc) if you delay timing just a smidge 66A+B will still combo. but if you do have to do a little delay on the 1B, dont try 8[B+K]ub
 
Yeah, 66A+B after 1B seems best to me.

8[B+K] just isn't reliable from what I've found. I'm pretty sure it can be backrolled by everyone so that they AT LEAST only get hit with the ground stun which means you only get a guaranteed scaled damage K instead of the awesomeness that is 66A+B.

And that's assuming you're even CLOSE enough to hit the K.
 
When my opponent knows how to escape the UB, I go for 1B 66A+B less than 1B 44[K] LC A. If your opponent does JU, then 1B 44[K] will leave you right in front of him in LC.
I love LC mixups, although there are characters that can counter every option.

Do you also use 1B after avery launcher?
 
on certain characters the unblockable is guaranteed.
amy i know for certain.
and if you are near a wall its guaranteed too. since the only way to tech it is to roll backwards
 
echeesekid said:
on certain characters the unblockable is guaranteed.
amy i know for certain.
and if you are near a wall its guaranteed too. since the only way to tech it is to roll backwards
Click to expand...


Yeah, off of A+B, this appears to be guaranteed. I was talking about the 3B launcher, for which this is easily escapable for most characters. (Amy for example needs only mash A or K to wake with a ws move and hit Lizzy out of the air)

Unfortunately, A+B seems so much worse than in SC3, what with evasion and step toned down across the board. I used to do pretty much nothing but bait whiffs and use this move in SC3. I also think the move is a lot slower, but that's just a gut feeling.
 
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