Lizzy Strategies!

1B, was my favorite option after any launcher since you could do 44[K],A and even if they did just ukemi you'd still be in crawl mixup.

But now after the latest patch, the opponent can easily air control away after 1B, so it's completely not worth doing now. :(
 
uh oh ... wasn't aware of any changes to lizzy due to the patch ... besides 1B after launch are there any other changes in 1.03 to the lizard?

*crosses fingers and hopes 3B:B is fixed*
 
wait OOF, so your saying that all those juggles with 1B are not feasible anymore? that blows hard
 
And right when I was just starting to USE those 1B combos...

Oh well, he was a beast before I knew about them, and a beast he shall remain.
 
Someone earlier mentioned hit boxes with Lizardman. I was in training mode and I noticed that Yun-Seoungs 44B doesnt hit CAS characters with Lizardmans style in Crawl Stance. If you choose Lizardman himself and go into Crawl Stance, Yun-Seoungs 44B hits him everytime.
 
i believe its + on block. you should use it to mix up with LC A, and LC A+K,B for mid/low mixup in LC
 
Simple question that should get something moving around here, hopefully. How do you guys handle pressure, from, say, X? I know that simply staying offensive yourself is one way but I generally don't like pushing my luck with block strings (not that I have any mixups from block at the moment... need to get the in WR K that OOF mentioned in the top 10 thread). What moves/tactics do you guys stick to when trying to get people to shove off?
 
Syrpiektre said:
Simple question that should get something moving around here, hopefully. How do you guys handle pressure, from, say, X? I know that simply staying offensive yourself is one way but I generally don't like pushing my luck with block strings (not that I have any mixups from block at the moment... need to get the in WR K that OOF mentioned in the top 10 thread). What moves/tactics do you guys stick to when trying to get people to shove off?
Click to expand...

I try to use 4B and 66K. 4B combos into 44K on CH and only leaves you at -10 on block, but hits high. 66K is great since it has a partial crouch and goes under AA, but leaves you at -16 on block. Hope this helps.
 
7_8_9 K is very safe and on hit leaves you with a ton of advantage to stick out a 3A or 3K with (both are safe and 3K also leaves you with a bunch of advantage on block

B+K is great against characters it actually works on consistently ... gives advantage on block and tech crouches them and you can tag an immediate 6B after to score a counterhit on anything they attempt (This is not a real frame trap but will work on the majority of characters that B+K works well on anyway due to the range a blocked B+K puts you at. An example of a retaliation that can STUFF the 6B follow up is Taki's WS A string or I believe Amy's 6BB ... both are characters you should use B+K on sparingly anyway.)

44B and A+B are both very safe launchers that work will for mid-range pressure but you must train your opponent before you start throwing them out because they are very linear and easily steppable. Also, 44B has an insane amount of SC damage and crushes in 8 blocked hits. It's also -7 on block and can be used from a mid-range distance. That's sounds like a win/win situation to me. =)

You can also try to score some CH's with 2B once in a while and learn to hit-confirm the K headbutt it links to.

Tools to force opponent to keep opponent at a distance and force them to be careful when trying to close that distance:

6B
66A
66A+B
A+B
44B
6K at a distance and used carefully gives you a guaranteed 44AB~33A+B on CH
and probably a few more i'm forgetting

sorry, long post cuz i'm bored at work.
 
Cool. I'll see what I can work in at tonight's play session. I really need to put more thought into using Ks and 6B. For some reason they drop from my mind when I'm working D.

Do you guys think there's any place or merit in 4B? KND on CH but high. It is i16 though. For some reason I really want to see if I can work it in, maybe post-reGI or something. I wish the range was a bit longer :/ Working this, and having an A+K cancel would make my day with LZM :P
 
I have a friend who plays X as his main, so I have at least some experience with this matchup. Things I’ve discovered, in no particular order:

X is strongest up close in your face, but Lizzy has enough fast mids to be able to fight at that range, if he has to. 3K, 3A, BB are all your friends. Still though, try to keep her at range. You have some advantage at range, since your reach is (usually)better than hers. Also, realize that her speed is weird. She has good priority on most of her moves, but she has more disadvantage on block than you would expect. A lot of her moves are punishable on block, so don’t be afraid to hit her. (Make sure to use a mid though, since sometimes she can duck.)

Be aware that she’ll probably sidestep a lot. She has at least a couple of moves that even have built-in sidesteps that she’ll use if she thinks she can bait you into a vertical. Make sure you use your close horizontals. 3A, 1K and 66A are all incredibly valuable in this fight.

1K is good in general, since it avoids a lot of her fast highs, and knocks down. Don’t overuse it to the point of predictability, (since it’s punishable on block) but throw it in there whenever you think you have a good moment. (It’s also good for catching side steps, if she’s trying to bait you into a vertical.) A lot of Lizzy’s tech crouches are great here, since X will throw out a lot of highs. 44K is also great.

Crawl Stance is dangerous against X, because she can hit you with low throws. If she’s good, she can sometimes jump over you, and do it from behind. Do NOT use BT LC B+K against X if they are using low throws. You WILL get low-thrown out of your roll. (She’ll actually grab you mid-roll – it’s annoying.) Her low throws aren’t normally too damaging, but one of them has a just frame, and if she can pull that off, you stand to lose a fair bit of life. Don’t be afraid to use LC in combos, of course, but seriously, don’t just stay in it and try to fight her with it up close. If the X knows what she is doing, she will win. (Long range lizard crawl pokes can work well though. Stay out of range, and use LC A from max range at odd timings to poke at her feet. You’ll do better than you will up close at least.)

Also, be aware that her 44B (evade, poke) will hit you in crawl stance, as will her great wall attack. (Not sure how to do it – it’s the one where she slams you with the flat of the blade with her whole shoulder behind it.) She seems to have a reasonable number of mids that hit your crawl, so don’t count on it to evade as well as it does against other people. These attacks WON’T hit you during the charge up for 1B+K though, so you can still use it in fishing for whiffs.

Speaking of her 44B evade/lunge, see if you can bait her into doing it. She’ll usually try it when you’re expected to rush in. If you block it, you can get a free poke. If she whiffs because you’re not in range or because you sidestepped, then you’ve struck pay dirt, and you can usually punish with either A+B or 44B. (Both of which are nice launchers with good reach that can be followed up with 33A+B for good damage.) You can also sometimes just straight-up stuff her with your reach, if you attack with 66B or 66A+B. You’ll reach far enough that you’ll hit her even while she’s mid-evade.

Be VERY careful when fighting her with your back to the edge. She has a crazy high kick that is stupid-fast, gives no real disadvantage on block, and will ring you out on normal hit. It’s i16 too, so if you try to throw, you will get ringed out. It’s nasty because she can spam two or three of them, and if you try to punish after you’ve blocked one, you’ll usually get hit (and ringed-out) by the next one unless you’re doing something super quick. Your best bet is to try to take the advantage with 2A, or use 1B+K to get away from the edge.

Be aware of how her taunt charge moves work, too. Every time she taunts as a cancel from her stance, (and gets a blue glow) a counter goes up. When she has done it enough (5 times?) she can start doing other things from that stance. Other things include a throw, and (more scary) an guard-crush that gives her enough advantage on block to do a free launcher. This is VERY dangerous near the edge, since if you get hit by it, you will be rung-out. Be aware of this and try to knock her out of it if you can. As a backup plan, if you don’t have time to hit her out, then duck. You’ll still take roughly the same amount of damage, but the first hit will knock you down, so the launcher won’t knock you out. It will hurt, but it beats a ring-out.

The other key to fighting X is to be very aware of her strings – many of her strings she has to do the whole thing, and can’t end early. Guard Impact these suckers! If you can rob her of these, you take away a lot of her potential for trouble. You can also guard impact a few of her mixups. She has one where she spins towards you and does a low kick, followed either by another low kick or a mid hit. The timing is the same for both, so you can safely do a low/mid GI, and completely remove her mixup.


That’s all I can think of at the moment. Hope there’s something in there that helps.


-Montoli


P. S. Yes, I like 4B. It's not great, (certainly not a bread-and-butter move) and the range is poop, but it's fast enough that you can throw it in sometimes when you're fishing for counterhits. It gives frames on hit, and if you are lucky enough to catch it with a counterhit, you can do a free 44B head-bitey-throw for 40something damage. Not bad for an i16 poke.
 
lizzy doesn't really have any

33B:B isn't really a JF ... more like a glitchy ass attack throw that desperately needs to be fixed so i can CH 6K~44AB~33B:B~LC B~LC B+K all day long =)

i don't even know how much damage that does cause i've only gotten that combo to work like 2x ever T_T
 
a few very extended high damage combos that i use on a regular basis. sorry for the generic directions.


(counter hit f,f,A)--B+K--b,b,B--b,b,A,B--d+B,K

(counter hit f,f,A)--B+K--b,b,B--b,b,A,B--f,f,K

(counter hit f,f,A)--B+K--b,b,B--b+B+K,G

(counter hit f,f,A)--B+K--A+K--b,b,K

(counter hit f,f,A)--B+K--f,f,B+K,B,A--K--A--B,B

(counter hit f,f,A)--B+K--A+B--b,b,A,B--d+B,K

(counter hit f,f,A)--B+K--A+B--b,b,A,B--f,f,K

(counter hit f,f,A)--B+K--db,A,K easy 97 damage

(counter hit f,f,A)--B+K--b,b,B--b,b,A,B--f,f,A+B

(counter hit f,f,A)--B+K--b,b,A,B

(counter hit f,f,A)--B+K--b,b,B--f,f,A,B

b,B--b,b,K

A+K--b,b,K

hope you guys like them, zedz
 
in the skills video in the video section there is a wicked LM combo that i cannot pull off. i am mainly referring to the part when he bounces the opponent off the ground then cathes them mid-air to slam them back to the ground for another bounce then pounces up to hit them again mid-air followed by the normal ground finishers. anyone ever pulled off the mid-air catch is my question. thanx, zedz
 
Also, 44A,B (b,b,A,B in your language) is never guaranteed in juggles as it can easily be air controlled.

Make sure to test all your combos for Air Control escapes in all directions (or at least back-left and back-right) so you're not posting unrealistic juggles.
 
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