Mass Effect 3!

The 4th game's actually more than a rumor at this point. Casey Hudson announced it was under production 5 days ago. He even said "At this point we're not really sure where we're going. We're even open to suggestions from the fans." How true or not that sentiment is I dunno but ME4 appears to be on the way.

My suggestion: If the reapers exist in a player's game then we get rid of them like so: A mysterious new threat is detected at the edge of the galaxy. The reaper fleet heads off to investigate it. Something something dark energy, Reapers mysteriously vanish.

If the reapers do not exist, then we say something else vanished like let's say an alliance or a citadel aligned fleet. Therefore, people who picked endings A and B are now at exactly the same place as people who picked ending C with little variation other than the occasional line of dialogue. We establish either way that the new threat is indeed a threat and if the galaxy was counting on the reaper's protection that is no longer an option, spurring the necessity of the quest and providing the player an impetus.


See another problem I have with the endings (this is just another one of the many problems I have with them but I'll avoid that for the purpose of this discussion) is that they are a closed book on the Mass Effect universe. The universe post ME3 endings ceases to be interesting.

This is ironic because a simple "beat the Reapers back" ending or indoctrination theory ending which a lot of the fans who despise the current endings are clamoring for, would have perfectly set up the 4th game. The possibilities from here are endless and would not be very far fetched or drastic at all.

The only current ending to me which is remotely interesting is the destroy ending because the society has been plunged into a recovery state, without any help from powerful AI etc and the living beings have to do it on their own with limited resources. This would have some potential for an interesting story. Wars between humans and turians perhaps? The remaining batarians becoming refugees and terrorists?

However, it does lose the great opportunity to use the fantastic AI villains: the Geth and the remnants of the Reaper fleet or AI recurring characters such as EDI.

The control ending is extremely boring and would take a colossal shake-up in order to bring the galaxy back into crisis, cause the God-mode Shepard with his/her reaper fleet would quickly end any and all problems in the Mass Effect universe.

The synthesis ending is just plain dumb in my opinion. And frankly I don't see how they can continue the story from that ending at all. SPACE MAGIC WOOOOOOOOO! "Gee, I am glad that my penis is now always hard thanks to the machine parts in it!" No, just an utter No.

The refusal ending is offensive to me. Its basically Bioware giving a big "fuck you" to all the fans who wanted a better ending. I am still waiting for an apology from them (in the form of a retcon, new game etc) and will not pay another cent for a Mass Effect product or Bioware product until they give us one. However, it could be potentially interesting (but it will never sell because very few humans in it) if there was an Ark and the normandy's crew survives to the next cycle. But that will never happen.

And if they set ME4 prior to ME3...yeah that's money EA won't be getting from me unless they retcon ME3.
 
I'm just hoping that the rumored 4th game is actually the indoctrination theory but that's wishful at this point.

Have a question to people who actually liked the ending, will you be adverse to the indoctrination theory if that is the focus of the 4th game?
I'm not sure I entirely understand the question, sorry. You mean the idea that the whole end is a dream? Because I think the end is very much all about indoctrination (that's one of the main things me and Destinizish were talking about over the last couple of pages), but I don't think it's all a dream.

If they say "it was all a dream after the Harbinger blast", then I guess I'll be a bit disappointed because it will mean my interpretation of the ending was wrong, but I won't be disappointed with the game or Bioware. IT is a pretty good theory that explains a lot of the confusing things quite tidily and still makes the ending pretty impactful IMO. Not everyone agrees of course, but I wouldn't claim that anyway.

In short, no I won't be averse, I think the ending is really good irrespective of who turns out to be right.
 
I'm not sure I entirely understand the question, sorry. You mean the idea that the whole end is a dream? Because I think the end is very much all about indoctrination (that's one of the main things me and Destinizish were talking about over the last couple of pages), but I don't think it's all a dream.

If they say "it was all a dream after the Harbinger blast", then I guess I'll be a bit disappointed because it will mean my interpretation of the ending was wrong, but I won't be disappointed with the game or Bioware. IT is a pretty good theory that explains a lot of the confusing things quite tidily and still makes the ending pretty impactful IMO. Not everyone agrees of course, but I wouldn't claim that anyway.

In short, no I won't be averse, I think the ending is really good irrespective of who turns out to be right.

You hit the nail on the head really.
 
Just curious here guys, but where would you pick up for the start of game 4? Particularly if you think the end of three dealt with indoctrination? What would you guys like to see out of a fourth game?
I really don't know. The hardest thing is, I think they'd have to incorporate humans. I think they'd struggle to sell if there were no human characters in. But then, they'd need to settle on a canon ending, which could cause real problems. They dodged this quite neatly with KOTOR, but I don't see how they can here.

One way to dodge it is by having ME4 set near some inactive relay, or some part of the galaxy that didn't have a relay built yet. It would be a place where humans travelled (in the last 30 years or however long it was between human FTL travel and ME3), but where for some reason the relay got switched off before ME3. Say, a colony that was separated from the others after a mass relay failure. Then any Reapers stranded out there could be the bad guys. Or Leviathan, or whatever.

It's hard to see how they can come up with a story that fits neatly with the established ME characters, lore and local systems, unless they actually come out and say "Destroy was right. Easter Egg implied this". It could be risky. Maybe not.

I kind of want there to be a situation where, if you picked Control, there'd be a new Reaper called "The Shepard", but that could seriously upset a lot of players.
 
It's hard to see how they can come up with a story that fits neatly with the established ME characters, lore and local systems, unless they actually come out and say "Destroy was right. Easter Egg implied this". It could be risky. Maybe not.

The stranding idea seems like something they could work with, but I agree and it's something I was thinking yesterday when I heard about the ME4 plans that they've kind of painted themselves into a corner. Synthesis is particularly tricky. Wasn't that supposed to eliminate all conflict? Kind of hard to have a story without it. I think you're right that they may just have to say "alright, not everything can be canon, we choose this one,". It probably would upset some people but they already have a track record doing that sort of thing with Dragon Age 2. Destroy seems the best one to go with imo too. and it seems Engared agrees.

The only current ending to me which is remotely interesting is the destroy ending because the society has been plunged into a recovery state, without any help from powerful AI etc and the living beings have to do it on their own with limited resources. This would have some potential for an interesting story. Wars between humans and turians perhaps? The remaining batarians becoming refugees and terrorists?

I didn't buy the DLC so I'm gonna ask Age, what's the deal with Leviathan? Feel free to spoil me, between Xcom, Borderlands 2 and DOA 5 I'm probably not going to be able to get around to leviathan for a while.

I would pick up really at the harbinger attack. That would be the ideal pick up point for me.
Seems like a good idea. I was actually thinking after I finished number three that if I was in charge of the next one I'd probably just want to let players do everything up to that point over again in a more satisfying way. What would you change Eng?
 
I didn't buy the DLC so I'm gonna ask Age, what's the deal with Leviathan?
Unfortunately I haven't played Leviathan. I've avoided reading into it too much in case I do eventually DL it, but what I can gather is, it talks about a group of organics who may have been responsible for building the Reapers or the StarKid or something. Or maybe not. Apparently it lends some credence to the idea that the end is an indoctrination attempt, but I think that's perfectly clear from ME3 as it is. I'm avoiding stepping on people's toes by saying "Of course it's indoctrination!! Can't you see???" but that is basically how I see it.
 
Unfortunately I haven't played Leviathan. I've avoided reading into it too much in case I do eventually DL it, but what I can gather is, it talks about a group of organics who may have been responsible for building the Reapers or the StarKid or something. Or maybe not. Apparently it lends some credence to the idea that the end is an indoctrination attempt, but I think that's perfectly clear from ME3 as it is. I'm avoiding stepping on people's toes by saying "Of course it's indoctrination!! Can't you see???" but that is basically how I see it.

Well you know, with the kid looking just like the one that's been haunting Shep's dreams I have to agree with you.
 
The stranding idea seems like something they could work with, but I agree and it's something I was thinking yesterday when I heard about the ME4 plans that they've kind of painted themselves into a corner. Synthesis is particularly tricky. Wasn't that supposed to eliminate all conflict? Kind of hard to have a story without it. I think you're right that they may just have to say "alright, not everything can be canon, we choose this one,". It probably would upset some people but they already have a track record doing that sort of thing with Dragon Age 2. Destroy seems the best one to go with imo too. and it seems Engared agrees.



I didn't buy the DLC so I'm gonna ask Age, what's the deal with Leviathan? Feel free to spoil me, between Xcom, Borderlands 2 and DOA 5 I'm probably not going to be able to get around to leviathan for a while.


Seems like a good idea. I was actually thinking after I finished number three that if I was in charge of the next one I'd probably just want to let players do everything up to that point over again in a more satisfying way. What would you change Eng?

Would just fix it really. Get rid of the starchild or do make him a Harbinger Illusion (which is what he really is anyway). There are plenty of fan endings out there which are infinitely better than the original.

I wouldn't mind making Shepard die. That should be an option. But the conventional victory is a must for me. It was promised to us the whole game which is why we were collecting war assets. The ending really makes the whole game pointless and in fact makes the entire series pointless if we put them together as a whole.
 
I thought you hated ME...or bitch about it an awful lot. Either way, I'm broke but I watched my brother play. Looks really good.
 
I thought you hated ME...or bitch about it an awful lot. Either way, I'm broke but I watched my brother play. Looks really good.
No, If you'd listened you'd know I loved ME, what I hated was that god awful ending and various things in the third game that transformed it from a classic to a case study and bode ill for the future of the franchise. Turns out btw, from posts of some of the Bioware writers, that they didn't like that ending either. Here's Patrick Weekes, contributing writer for all three games and who was the primary writer for tali, mordin, and Rannok on the ending:

Patrick Weekes said:
I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to our squad, b) having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn’t automatically die in that shuttle crash, and c) having written Tali’s goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote (Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc).​
No other writer did, either, except for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself, sitting in a room and going through draft after draft.​
And honestly, it kind of shows.​
Every other mission in the game had to be held up to the rest of the writing team, and the writing team then picked it apart and made suggestions and pointed out the parts that made no sense. This mission? Casey and our lead deciding that they didn’t need to be peer-reviewe.d​
And again, it shows.​
If you’d asked me the themes of Mass Effect 3, I’d break them down as:​
Galactic Alliances​
Friends​
Organics versus Synthetics​
In my personal opinion, the first two got a perfunctory nod. We did get a goodbye to our friends, but it was in a scene that was divorced from the gameplay — a deliberate “nothing happens here” area with one turret thrown in for no reason I really understand, except possibly to obfuscate the “nothing happens here”-ness. The best missions in our game are the ones in which the gameplay and the narrative reinforce each other. The end of the Genophage campaign exemplifies that for me — every line of dialog is showing you both sides of the krogan, be they horrible brutes or proud warriors; the art shows both their bombed-out wasteland and the beautiful world they once had and could have again; the combat shows the terror of the Reapers as well as a blatant reminder of the rachni, which threatened the galaxy and had to be stopped by the krogan last time. Every line of code in that mission is on target with the overall message.​
The endgame doesn’t have that. I wanted to see banshees attacking you, and then have asari gunships zoom in and blow them away. I wanted to see a wave of rachni ravagers come around a corner only to be met by a wall of krogan roaring a battle cry. Here’s the horror the Reapers inflicted upon each race, and here’s the army that you, Commander Shepard, made out of every race in the galaxy to fight them.​
I personally thought that the Illusive Man conversation was about twice as long as it needed to be — something that I’ve been told in my peer reviews of my missions and made edits on, but again, this is a conversation no writer but the lead ever saw until it was already recorded. I did love Anderson’s goodbye.​
For me, Anderson’s goodbye is where it ended. The stuff with the Catalyst just… You have to understand. Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he’s not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn’t hate it, but I didn’t love it.​
And then, just to be a dick… what was SUPPOSED to happen was that, say you picked “Destroy the Reapers”. When you did that, the system was SUPPOSED to look at your score, and then you’d show a cutscene of Earth that was either:​
a) Very high score: Earth obviously damaged, but woo victory​
b) Medium score: Earth takes a bunch of damage from the Crucible activation. Like dropping a bomb on an already war-ravaged city. Uh, well, maybe not LIKE that as much as, uh, THAT.​
c) Low score: Earth is a cinderblock, all life on it completely wiped out​
I have NO IDEA why these different cutscenes aren’t in there. As far as I know, they were never cut. Maybe they were cut for budget reasons at the last minute. I don’t know. But holy crap, yeah, I can see how incredibly disappointing it’d be to hear of all the different ending possibilities and have it break down to “which color is stuff glowing?” Or maybe they ARE in, but they’re too subtle to really see obvious differences, and again, that’s… yeah.​
Okay, that’s a lot to have written for something that’s gonna go away in an hour.​
I still teared up at the ending myself, but really, I was tearing up for the quick flashbacks to old friends and the death of Anderson. I wasn’t tearing up over making a choice that, as it turned out, didn’t have enough cutscene differentiation on it.​
And to be clear, I don’t even really wish Shepard had gotten a ride-off-into-sunset ending. I was honestly okay with Shepard sacrificing himself. I just expected it to be for something with more obvious differentiation, and a stronger tie to the core themes — all three of them.​
I know that you loved the ending and that is why you like to throw around the word "bitch", but in loving that ending you are in the minority, when the extended cut was released it showed Bioware itself wouldn't stand by it. You're right about that though, I will beat that horse until the end of time.​
Anyways, I loved this DLC, it's only too bad the only thing waiting for you at the end is well, Mass effect 3's ending. When I would go to the journal and see that "Priority Cerberus" was still there I'd get a little sad. But hanging with your crew, all the jokes, and the chance to fight with old team mates in the combat simulator were all welcome. It was also nice to see some of the characters from ME2 who were largely ignored like Miranda and Kasumi get thier screen time doubled. My shep's love interest was Miranda and it was nice to get a read on how things would work out with them. It was also nice to get to know Traynor better. She went from a mildly amusing side character to one I like a lot. I was all ready to make a joke post before I started about how I was the biggest Barla Von fan in the world and they forgot all about him, to my chagrin they did not.​
 
Back
Top Bottom