[MATCH-UP] Natsu

ChaosK said:
Stancecancel is -20.You could have used 66K as a punish on all ranges, 66B(BE) on everything but tip range.
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And thats ur problem.... If players didn't care about frames so much, ppl would become better players in this game. Guess I"ll forever be the rush down player that makes ppl feel backed up in a corner.
 
Hawkeye said:
And thats ur problem.... If players didn't care about frames so much, ppl would become better players in this game. Guess I"ll forever be the rush down player that makes ppl feel backed up in a corner.
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I totally agree with that but i still dont see how your previous post makes sense though. How is stance-cancelling staying safe when 66K is a guaranteed punish? At least against 66B its a mindgame because sieg could 2B+K for a heavy whiffpunish.

When i go in other SA's and spot MU ignorance i dont just say learn the MU (its quite disrespectful imho), i try to help them out and provide knowledge in depth on how they could handle certain situations against Siegfried. I wished more people were like that.
 
ChaosK said:
I totally agree with that but i still dont see how your previous post makes sense though. How is stance-cancelling staying safe when 66K is a guaranteed punish? At least against 66B its a mindgame because sieg could 2B+K for a heavy whiffpunish.

When i go in other SA's and spot MU ignorance i dont just say learn the MU (its quite disrespectful imho), i try to help them out and provide knowledge in depth on how they could handle certain situations against Siegfried. I wished more people were like that.
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Geez must a spell everything out. Lol.. 3B stance is a mixup in its self. 3B stance natsu can counter with AA. Once u get natsu prone to countering you, then u cancel for wsB. 3B stance cancel Natsu punish with 66K but if u get her prone for the cancel then Chief Hold K/K BE will land.... See where Im going? Its called conditioning your opponent. Any character can win once u understand how to condition ur opponent and make good reads.. Especially with the high damage in this game and seig is no slouch when it comes to damage.
 
Hawkeye said:
Geez must a spell everything out. Lol.. 3B stance is a mixup in its self. 3B stance natsu can counter with AA. Once u get natsu prone to countering you, then u cancel for wsB. 3B stance cancel Natsu punish with 66K but if u get her prone for the cancel then Chief Hold K/K BE will land.... See where Im going? Its called conditioning your opponent. Any character can win once u understand how to condition ur opponent and make good reads.. Especially with the high damage in this game and seig is no slouch when it comes to damage.
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I assumed you were referring to using 3B at range because at close range natsu should go for A:6. I actually made quite a big post explaining how the mixup works in the Natsu SA, where some players had problems to deal with it.

Imho its not smart for natsu to use AA because, as you said, cancel into 3B beats it and AA hardly bears any reward. So i dont see why a natsu would go for it unless they arent feeling comfortable with their A:6 execution.
 
ChaosK said:
I assumed you were referring to using 3B at range because at close range natsu should go for A:6. I actually made quite a big post explaining how the mixup works in the Natsu SA, where some players had problems to deal with it.

Imho its not smart for natsu to use AA because, as you said, cancel into 3B beats it and AA hardly bears any reward. So i dont see why a natsu would go for it unless they arent feeling comfortable with their A:6 execution.
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By AA. I meant AAB.. but hey Im done here lol. I"ll leave it to you guys to feel hopeless.
 
Hawkeye said:
By AA. I meant AAB.. but hey Im done lol. I"ll leave it to you guys to feel hopeless.
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Please dont feel that way. I am one of the positive siegfrieds and none of my posts have said anything negative about him as a character, so i dont see where that is coming from all of a sudden.

I of course understood that you meant AAB, its the same. I play frequently with Fleshmasher, one of the Natsu SA mods and he punishes with A:6 and i dont see why he would go for AAB, instead.
 
ChaosK said:
Please dont feel that way. I am one of the positive siegfrieds and none of my posts have said anything negative about him as a character, so i dont see where that is coming from all of a sudden.

I of course understood that you meant AAB, its the same. I play frequently with Fleshmasher, one of the Natsu SA mods and he punishes with A:6 and i dont see why he would go for AAB, instead.
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Its more damage thats why "I'' go for AAB. Going for AA is good for "ME" if you read that they will try to keep pressure with Chief Hold K. As for you being Negative, I never singled you out for being negative against Seig. I said "You guys"... Meaning the majority.
 
Ah ok fair enough, as long as its working against the player thats all good.

I am of course in no position to tell you about natsu (and i dont want to give that impression) but i personally think A:6 has quite some advantages over AAB post Sieg 3B.
On CH A:6 gives 43 dmg and AAB gives 49 dmg, so there is only a minor difference in dmg. The good part though is, that A:6 is guaranteed while AAB is not. Not all of siegs options will result in him receiving a CH so your dmg might drop to 18 and if sieg yomi's your AAB, you could get launched, so its quite risky imo.

But it all depends on playstyle preference of course. Its all good.
 
Hawkeye said:
Its more damage thats why "I'' go for AAB. Going for AA is good for "ME" if you read that they will try to keep pressure with Chief Hold K. As for you being Negative, I never singled you out for being negative against Seig. I said "You guys"... Meaning the majority.
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I wouldnt say we're being negative i'd say we're being realistic - please try to avoid grouping us into a stereotype. It is true that a:6 is guaranteed after a blocked 3B if you have the execution to get it off(which i wouldnt put it past a natsu player because a:6 is pretty important for them). We're essentially just trying to say that yes she does infact, have alot of options after a sieg 3B including a guaranteed punish at close to mid range.

As for the being at siegs range, true she doesnt outmatch him there, but even so she is still very dangerous regardless of what range she's at. not to mention alot of her moves that are intended for that range also allow her to get in quickly, which hurts siegfried immediately yes, but also hurts him in the long run when he has to deal with natsu at her optimal range. because they are punishable, again, his job is to try to bleed her out before she can successfully get to him.

I wouldnt say thats being negative, as we've already pointed out that his main goal is to space and bleed her out enough so that when she does get in he can still maintain a life lead by the time we push her out. heatons also showed what we can do against her stance transitions as well. nobody said that this matchup is impossible, just difficult.
 
Hawkeye said:
And thats ur problem.... If players didn't care about frames so much, ppl would become better players in this game. Guess I"ll forever be the rush down player that makes ppl feel backed up in a corner.
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In other words, when you said it was safe, we should've realized you didn't mean you actually believed it was SAFE safe? Or...? If you're now claiming we shouldn't worry so much about things like that, I don't see how that fits into what you said earlier about how a lack of matchup knowledge tends to be the problem.
 
DerLindwurm said:
In other words, when you said it was safe, we should've realized you didn't mean you actually believed it was SAFE safe? Or...? If you're now claiming we shouldn't worry so much about things like that, I don't see how that fits into what you said earlier about how a lack of matchup knowledge tends to be the problem.
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Here we go again... Im done.. plz leave me alone.
 
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