Matchup Discussion: Leixia VS. Nightmare

Most of NM's stance moves can be punished with 6KK, which works great against online NMs. I don't know the actual inputs of NM's moves; I kinda just know which move is which.
 
GS A will eat 6KK so just be wary of that.

3AA: Not to be stepped but horribly punishable. Even at his best range, 3B will tag him.

6K: One of his quickest moves and a great tool for keeping poor Leixia out. And it is safe. It is high so you could duck and punish but he recovers quick so I'm not sure if you'll get much other than a 2A. Curious to see if 3B+K can go under it but so far I haven't had much luck. 3A can go under it but you can't be up in his face.

44B: Pushback on this giant vertical slice is nuts. You aren't punishing it anyways. Even if you JG it, it's not enough frames to punish.

A~G~A: Duck it. Blocking it isn't bad per se (Doesn't appear to do as much guard damage as other attacks) but it'd allow him to push you back out into the range he wants so try to avoid that.

I'll put my little analysis of his stances up soon. I was thinking since quite a few of his good attacks are high, getting in with 3B+K might work. Doesn't appear to be working with 6K though.

EDIT: Maybe you can...you just can't be right up in his face or you'll be interrupted first...I think. Needs further testing.
 
My buddy uses Nightmare, and he's gotten pretty good to the point I can't beat him at all now. I'm going to monitor this thread for tips on what to use against him... :sc5lei1:
 
Probably obvious to a lot of vets, but 2A is still very good vs GS and beats pretty much all of his options.
 
Nightmare's 3B transition into his side stance (NSS), when blocked, can be punished by 6KK.

Second hit of his 2AA (advancing sweeping mid horizontal) can be 4A+B'ed, though the timing is difficult.

WS K on hit or block frame traps him. He can't really beat any (speedy) follow ups as far as I can tell.
 
As far as I can tell, Lei's 6KK works for both NM's 44B and 3B due to TC. For 3AA, as previously noted, the best punisher is 3B. If it pushes Lei too far back for 3B, an immediate 66B followed by guard is useful for closing in. Only a perfectly timed step will allow NM to punish. Or if you have godlike reflexes, use 4A+B, as Windstar said.
 
I gathered some information concerning stance punishments for NSS and GS. Some of these have already been mentioned by ZeroEffect in the punishment guide, but I feel like posting my results here.

NSS-Transitions

[A] - 2A, 2K - I couldn't find anything consistent at any range
6(B) - 6KK beats everything
3(B) - FC 3B beats everything but NSS K - WR B BE beats NSS K - WR K if you want to play it safe (double whiff against NSS bA)
4B(B) - 3B+K beats everything - WR B BE beats everything when he tries to go into stance
WR (B) - 3B+K beats everything
11(B) - FC 2A delayed beats everything - FC 2A immediately (loses to NSS K) - WR B BE beats NSS K


NSS Punishment

NSS A - safe
NSS [A] - 3B+K beats everything
NSS B - 6KK (not at range)
NSS K - 6KK
NSS A+B - 6KK (not at range)
NSS bA_b:A - 6KK


GS Transitions (if you predict it at closerange 2A always works)

1A6 - WR A beats everything (even if he doesn't try to go into stance)
66A6 - 3A+B beats everything
22AA6 - 4A+B beats everything but GS A (and the 22AA of course) - therefore 44[A] beats GS A
33B6 - 6KK beats everything but GS A - therefore 44[A] beats GS A
66K6 - 6KK beats everything but GS A - therefore 44[A] beats GS A


GS Punishment

GS A - 6KK (4K for wallsplats/RO)
GS B - safe
GS B6 - 3A+B
GS K - 3B
GS K BE - duck into FC 3B

If you don't take advantage of his unsafeness you will probably die. She cannot compete with Nightmare in the damage and spacing department.
 
I dunno what it is, but lately this matchup has been the one I struggle with the most. It feels like you can't really move at all, and she just doesn't do enough damage to scare him into NOT blocking. NSS will just backstep everything I try at mid range. Fighting him is still pretty similar to SC4, but I've never had this much trouble with him back then.
 
I'm not a very good player, but this matchup is one I particularly have trouble with. I saved four replays and got videos of three of them. The first video is easily my worst one. Here they are:

[media=xenmedio]3846[/media]
[media=xenmedio]3847[/media]
[media=xenmedio]3848[/media]
 
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NM never was the biggest problem for me.. I seem to struggle more against Pyrrha/Viola more than anyone.. I guess it helps that my main alt is NM...
 
TiZ said:
Well then, how about some tips on dealing with him?
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Just rush in and block and punish.. All I can say is that I know where he is vulnerable due to playing NM as well.. Basically trade in a punish after he's done with a grim stride sequence.. I usually punish with 3Bk but I'm sure there are better moves to counter with..
 
TiZ said:
Well then, how about some tips on dealing with him?
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Nightmare can be devastating if you're not familiar with his moves. If you learn to recognise his low attacks, like 1A and A 2A A, and then learn which attacks he can follow with a stance, you'll find him much easier. Most of his stance attacks are punishable using 6KK.

Kalas's punishment tips above will become extremely useful once you're more familiar with the match-up.
 
NM 3B strats-
When he does 3B hold Lexia is automatically put FC on 3B block anyways...

At close range she can WR K before he does 3B Hold (A, Ba, or K attacks) and WR K will hit up close. She can also use WR B BE which will beat out all of that except 3B hold A (at mid range, because the A hit her a split second before her sword starts to spin.)

3B hold Ba (JF or Normal doesnt matter)
Lexia can respond to this with AutoGI 22_88B+K (Note* you have to do it anticipating Ba after he does 3B hold it would come out to slow/late and you would eat a CH)

Lex can 2B but Ba make the attack Whiff because he steps slightly during the attack.

Lex can WR A stunning him and if u have enough metter for CE she will deal over 95 dmg!

Of course the usual FC 3B or 6A+B BUT you must remain FC until he actually does Ba other u will get hit for doing too soon.

Lex can simply block punish it with 6KK :/

These are the best options in response to an anticipated Ba.

I dont like 1A because its mid range, you have to get back into standing position from FC THEN input the commands, 3B pushes back so its likely to whiff... Doesnt stun

NM 3B hold K
This move for some reason is what most ppl get hit by... We already know its a high so it can be ducked, its vertical so it can be Quick Stepped to either side, 6KK block punished, CE punished (wow this move is pretty shitty vs Lex)...

Lex can WR B or WR B BE this move with no problem...

Lex can Quick Step (always quick step to his right because he seems to have weird tracking on his left.) and 4K, or 88B or whatever attack u choose.
 
ShinjiUrahara said:
NM 3B strats-
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Last I checked 6A+B should work 100% guaranteed if you do it right away. Not even NSS bA should escape it. Otherwise CE/Block punish with something. No need to complicate it, imo.

NSS K often hits because it's fast. It'll sometimes hit Leixia on frames where she comes out of TC.

The hardest one to avoid is 44{B} because of the recovery. You can't FC A him out of NSS K and I think bA will escape 6A+B this time since 44B puts NM on an angle.
 
Yeah most of everything has already been stated. I just wanted to add some fundamentals to suit others styles of play. Some people like to keep it simple, while others prefer more complex style of play.
 
I also thought this MU was terrible before but when Leixia's in his face pressing buttons NM can't do much.
 
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