Matchups subthread

Another Matchup Chart Attempt

BTW what the heck is 1:9 or 2:8 Bullshit.

Okay here in the USA we use three levels. Good, even and bad, and level them 7:3, 5:5, 6:4.

Some of the worst match-ups in the game For example Algol vs Talim are 7:3...not 9:1 or 10:0.

Now Algol vs lets say Yoda, that is considerable. Unlike other characters in the game yoda actually has retarded step, he's pretty much the only character that can't get around the bubble shield. But once he gets in rage he can just as easily give any algol player problems.

Just watch OOF's annoying ass yoda.
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

Yea pretty much. I haven't played many matchups with my mains so I can't say a lot of things for sure and won't try to unless I KNOW the character. I can only comment on my mains for sure.

EDIT: If your post doesn't adhere to the format I put up it will be deleted. Have your facts ready to back you up.
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

I guess but it seems like there's no way to come to a factual conclusion cause there based of who's played who which is normally gets quite different perspectives unless it’s just a obvious one. Ok anyways i think cervantes vs. raph is 6/4 because cervantes can step prep for high reward low risk or a he can just 1B (also forces crouch which raph cant do much from) when they enter prep it avoids everything i believe. Raphs VE A is punished with FC A+BBBBBBB, Prep A iGDR punishable, Prep BBB:B FC A+BBBBBB punishable, and raph heaviest way of punishing him in situations that matter is 6BB which obviously is in cervantes' favor when it comes to risk/reward. Cervantes can also deal with his spacing through bK, iTP, 66A, and 44K quite easily. Does this sound about right?
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

babalook said:
I guess but it seems like there's no way to come to a factual conclusion cause there based of who's played who which is normally gets quite different perspectives unless it’s just a obvious one. Ok anyways i think cervantes vs. raph is 6/4 because cervantes can step prep for high reward low risk or a he can just 1B (also forces crouch which raph cant do much from) when they enter prep it avoids everything i believe. Raphs VE A is punished with FC A+BBBBBBB, Prep A iGDR punishable, Prep BBB:B FC A+BBBBBB punishable, and raph heaviest way of punishing him in situations that matter is 6BB which obviously is in cervantes' favor when it comes to risk/reward. Cervantes can also deal with his spacing through bK, iTP, 66A, and 44K quite easily. Does this sound about right?
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WRONG READ PLZ

http://www.8wayrun.com/showpost.php?p=122221&postcount=1

raph vs cervy is infact 0:10 in favor of cervy

just step raph all day raph can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT STEP
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

ALSO A RAPH HAS TO BE IN PREP ALWAYS even though every good raph knows prep never works offline, also wrote more deatiled match up descriptions

just punish prep
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

WARUI_NE said:
ALSO A RAPH HAS TO BE IN PREP ALWAYS even though every good raph knows prep never works offline
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I dont think ive ever seen a raph not use Prep i guess you could try to get by with 3B and other pokes but i dont think that'd be very effective.
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

babalook said:
I dont think ive ever seen a raph not use Prep i guess you could try to get by with 3B and other pokes but i dont think that'd be very effective.
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ever seen a GOOD RAPH play? IE me? Prep is just horrible in general. all you have to do is duck vs it and profit. come on man think
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

Bubbles you're great. Just lol. Anyway sounds solid to me babalook. Spacing is one of Raph's biggest strengths and if Cervy can match that with great reward then it's definitely a good matchup for him. Great post.

EDIT: Apologies to the people who posted numbers but are sure of their matchups. Just redo them for us in the format I put up. It'll take more time but you'll have everything you need to say.
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

One question does anyone have any idea of the cervy vs astaroth matchup, i haven't played it in forever and i dont think there's a single video of high level players in this matchup. Also id say cervy vs ivy is a 6:4 also in cervantes' favor because Ivy's 1B B+K can be avoided by 8wayrun to the right(along with many other moves) for a risk reward thats heavily in your favor considering CL's best step catcher is like AA. Her SG game is out the window if you use the FC A+BBBBBBBBBB alot. And every ivy's favorite WP move 6B+K2 can be pooped on with [B+K] which gives you a free BT B+K at any range for like a 105 dmg combo(also works on CL 6A+B and WP 44A+B). The only horisontal that matter in WP is 3A which is iGDR punishable at any range but you can do aB from most ranges also. If they're in SW, 3A+B and FC A+BBBBBBB make it to were its very hard for her to touch you and her SG is hushed down. And if she is in WP or CL 1K can be followed up with WR K instead of 6K giving the mixup a better risk reward due to her having nothing above i15 i beleive(and if it clashed it leaves ivy BT at -9). Am i missing anything here?
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

So wait, the worst a matchup can be on this chart is 7:3/3:7?

I'm sorry, but some matchups are just worse than that. I can't speak for many other characters, but Talim vs Algol for example, has gotta be a 2:8. It's simply more difficult than a matchup vs her actual 3:7s in Voldo and/or Ivy.

Anyways, Mikosu, I'll re-post the Talim matchups again later. But one question. How will you determine a final number for matchups that don't "add-up" due to conflicting opinions? That's the only reason I put the "maybes" in my post to begin with. In cases where I think Talim does better in the matchup than everyone else says she does, I figured it best to compromise for the sake of deciding a final number.
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

Yea that's pretty much how it'll havta go. Hopefully it'll be as easy as 6:4 and 4:6 = 5:5 for those cases. Low tier characters may require more explanation.
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

Belial said:
I'm with baba here, "go get some experience" is no reasoning. Its as if he was spouting some bullshit that would take too much time to explain so you just wave your hands at him. If you think someone's hopelessly wrong just ignore him, saying stuff like "go learn" is basically trolling, however nicely put.
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Aww...but I like trolling and being an elitist ass!

Anyways, my apologies. I posted late and didn't want to go into detail. I'll be specific this time around. Cervy has very few options after 1K. He can 6K to keep the opponent honest, throw, or do a different mid. I suppose you could low poke again, but that's not terribly threatening. People with Cervy experience will happily guess against a throw and block the mid.

If an opponent blocks FC A+B:B JF and then you dash in, you don't maintain enough advantage to keep an opponent honest with 3B or anything that slow. Can you be more specific? In the scenario you cited, any opponent can AA to stop your 3B or even step it. I don't see that scenario being terribly threatening from a further range either, since your options become limited at that range.
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

Hajime: After 1K cervy can 9[B+K] iTP , rcc 1K etc. its still a +1, advantage is advantage, you can stop other guy from doing something, then mix up. Do I need to mention its FC and set up an awesome grab game? and you can mix up with WSA, 66B or whatever. Honestly its a little bit too much when people start to question is having +1 good or not.

I've never played nor seen Bubbles (Warui_ne) but he sounds like a scrub. Sorry bubbles. If you're getting stepped all the time its you who are weak to step, not your character. I've been playing raphael a lot, I have, probably one of the best raph's in the world here (Edge), I also played few good raphaels in france, and of course I played Kura's raphael at Evo. Sorry to be the one to deliver the sad truth, but while all you did since you picked up the character was whine about how bad he is and claim he sucks in every matchup (b/c every char can step, at least compared to cervy), other who didnt quit raphael actually looked for a way not to suck. Proper spacing can solve a lot of your problems, and Raphael is quite suited for that.

Trolling people in yet another "matchup chart" just b/c you believe yourself to have some kind of raphael authority doesnt help the cause. You dont sound convincing at all.
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

Belial said:
Hajime: After 1K cervy can 9[B+K] iTP , rcc 1K etc. its still a +1, advantage is advantage, you can stop other guy from doing something, then mix up. Do I need to mention its FC and set up an awesome grab game? and you can mix up with WSA, 66B or whatever. Honestly its a little bit too much when people start to question is having +1 good or not.

I've never played nor seen Bubbles (Warui_ne) but he sounds like a scrub. Sorry bubbles. If you're getting stepped all the time its you who are weak to step, not your character. I've been playing raphael a lot, I have, probably one of the best raph's in the world here (Edge), I also played few good raphaels in france, and of course I played Kura's raphael at Evo. Sorry to be the one to deliver the sad truth, but while all you did since you picked up the character was whine about how bad he is and claim he sucks in every matchup (b/c every char can step, at least compared to cervy), other who didnt quit raphael actually looked for a way not to suck. Proper spacing can solve a lot of your problems, and Raphael is quite suited for that.

Trolling people in yet another "matchup chart" just b/c you believe yourself to have some kind of raphael authority doesnt help the cause. You dont sound convincing at all.
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hahah belial its sarcasm(which you completely missed BTW, I honestly don't know how anyone missed the sarcasm this goes double for you because I've seen some of your sarcastic posts)....I guess this is where I face palm?...I have no room to criticize you because you are a far better player but the point im trying to make is everyone says LOLSTEPRAPHALLDAY and thats all they ever say other then the occasional SO AND SO BEATS PREP so Ive completely given up on getting accurate raph match ups completely. Also I changed the match up chart completely because of the format idlemind wants to use completely renders all old match ups useless. my match up chart is about as serious as this: http://www.8wayrun.com/showpost.php?p=122596&postcount=1

Or this:
http://www.8wayrun.com/showpost.php?p=126024&postcount=1
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

Epic fail x( I totally bought all of it T_T

Anyway, I'm sorry then.
Whats the Idlemind format you're talking about?
_________________________________________
====== DOUBLE POST AUTO-MERGE ======
Mikosu:
Just redo them for us in the format I put up
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I dont know how to fill it pls check
YOUR CHARACTER: 2KB
YOUR PLAY EXPIERENCE (Tournament, casual, etc) watching videos since 2003
YOUR OPPONENT WHOM YOU CONSIDER HIGH LEVEL: Warble, Sword Lord, Dino, CousLolivoldo(whatever), teflon
THEIR CHARACTER: doesnt matter
YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE MATCHUP: I fuckin rule
YOUR REASONS: cuz I said so.
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

YOUR CHARACTER
YOUR PLAY EXPIERENCE (Tournament, casual, etc)
YOUR OPPONENT WHOM YOU CONSIDER HIGH LEVEL
THEIR CHARACTER
YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE MATCHUP
YOUR REASONS

he also says something along a YEARS experience is the only thing that qaulifys someone for talking about match ups so one person should only know 2-3 in reality. he thinks its better that we have less truthful info rather then more questionable info
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

Lol Belial you're the best. Everyone knows who you are so I know most of your numbers have some merit. Same for you Zero with Talim vs Mi-Na for sure. In other words if I'm aware that you have the matchup experience I'll keep your number in the new chart. Sad truth of the matter is USA doesn't have as much experience in these matchups as other communities. That's why it's better our chart is full of empty squares than guesses and lies. If the chart never gets done then it reflects our matchup experience.
 
Another Matchup Chart Attempt

Why not just take the Chart of the frenchies? They are way ahead when it comes to Matchups, good Players and Experience etc etc...and if you COMPLETELY Disagree on something just discuss this particular Matchup. The Frenchies have Top Players for almost any Char, they base everthing on REAL offline Matches.

This thread is doomed to fail very hard, you know it, i know it, everybody does.

Forget your US and A Pride and take the french chart :)

Oh and please change the Title to "Another GREAT Matchup Chart Attempt" :)
 
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