Minimizing the force.

ioKain

ioKain

[09] Warrior
I would like to use this thread to discuss various force saving strategies. Instances where you can use the force but are in absolutely no need of using it. For example we all know 3B, 4A+B,A+B,A+B will ring out forward. The last A+B is not needed and can be replaced by 3B for the same ring out and will save you a considerable amount of force. This is what I'm looking for, hopefully we can come up with some more. Waste not, want not. :)
 
I think you misunderstand. I could also use 22K and eliminate another move all together.
 
after a KD, an alternate to using A+B x3/ A+B, 6A+B would be 2B+K, 3KB... way less force used.

btw, any 2B+K hit on grounded guarantees 3KB, but you guys probably already know that.
 
Well, whenever I play as DV I usually do the combos that do the most damage regardless of how much force they take. If I am short on force after all the combos I will simply turtle and do 4b until my force meter goes back up or I get a critical finish.
 
yh 3KB saves a ton of force and its usually pretty close and sumtimes the same amount of dmg as with the 4A+B 6A+B force pickup.

Eg:

BB 44B+K 2B+K 2A+B 3KB = 50% force used 79 dmg

BB 44B+K 2B+K 2A+B 4A+B 6A+B = Almost all force used 79 dmg

Doin 2B+K first before 2A+B gets you a whopping 1-2 dmg depending on which combo.

And this isn't exactly what the OP asked for but 11a 4aa is a gud dmging combo without any force use and it regains quite a bit aswell...
 
For minimal force usage, whenever you do a force cancel, do it with 1A+B and not A+B. 1A+B uses almost half as much force.
 
I think the only exception to the rule above ^^^ is when you do a straight out force cancel like A+B~G or 1A+B~G, which both take the same amount of force. I just do A+B~G in that case for easier canceling.

CORRECTION: Refer to Oof's post below. Thanks for the heads up.
 
Actually, if you look very closely when you do 1A+B~G and A+B~G, you will see that A+B~G uses a tiny bit more. If you want proof, just keep doing A+B~G until you run out of force, and then do that with 1A+B~G. You'll see that you can do A+B~G 8 times in a row, while you can do 1A+B~G 9 times in a row.

If you are force canceling out of any move it will use half as much force if you do 1A+B~G, except for after two moves: 44B and 44B+K, doing it from either of those two seems to use the exact same amount.
 
Yes, also to add to that OOF...

When using the 1a+b~G(force cancel), you also have to remind yourself that the other variant(a+b~G) is much easier than using 1a+b~G, since you have to accurately input 1a+b~G to get the exact same results as normal a+b~G follow ups..it does make it a bit more difficult to do damage and combos with same effect..if you input the 1a+B~G too late(slow) even by the slightest delay, you miss out on the same damage you could inflict upon your opponent(s) that you normally could do with a+b~G and they will be blocking your free damage followed by it.. a+b~G is more lenient in that department.

I really wanna say that the 1a+b~G could be just frame input?.. i know the timing is more strict than the a+b~G.. because i can do a+b~G moves with my eyes closed and still get the follow up damage it offers ex:

= 6Bb~g~a+b~G,4b..just as an example, this is easier to do without the 1a+b~G inputs though(it can be done), you can still get the 4b after the very last force cancel from the example, BUT you cannot get the same results followed by it because it has very strict timing to it so you then miss even more free damage/wakes, so my advise here is to practice using your 1a+b~G until you get the hang(timing) of it, until then stick with normal a+b~G..which will then of course(after perfecting) save you more force meter(1a+b~G) but with a risk if you don't have the confidence in using it correctly

all in all ..don't frustrate yourself(s) with 1a+b~G too much..it takes a while to get the hang of it(timing is different than a+b~G) and in the process you could be tearing hair strands out..get used to A+B~G version 1st before learning to save force meter a bit with 1a+b. your still going to do the same amount of damage from a+b~G as you would 1a+b~g so don't worry so much about saving force meter, 1st learn how to control yourself from wasting your force meter before doing this version of the force cancel at all.

-JustKill

PS , if there is any confusion here just let me know i will help correct/help in any way i can, did the best i could to make appropriate sense of my logic
 
From my experience the timing for force canceling with 1A+B~G is exactly the same as A+B~G. It's just an extra button to press that's all. It feels harder at first because your mind isn't used to pressing it, after being so used to the very simple A+B~G, but once you get the hang of it, it's the exact same thing. The only one that I find slightly tricky is wr aG~1A+B~G, but even that one isn't so bad once you get used to it.

I have to disagree with your comment on "get used to A+B~G version 1st before learning to save force meter a bit with 1a+b.", because if you get used to doing A+B~G then it becomes harder to adapt to 1A+B~G later on. It is best to always use 1A+B~G when possible (except after the moves where it makes no difference) until you do it naturally without even thinking about it. That tiny bit of force you always end up saving will make a big difference in the long run.
 
your right..i was directing my thoughts to those that are in the simple stages of Vader playing..it just "feels" like its harder..that's why i pointed out to not get frustrated with the 1a+b~g version BECAUSE a+b~g takes less thought process and don't have to worry about screwing up the (1)a+b~g execution..the way i was trying to explain it was to have players be able to use his combos with an easier input to get used to(and deal out the same amount of damage at the same time) without getting too frustrated(which a lot of new Vader players will probably feel like along with Algol and his bubble juggle variants(the ultra combo ones)


i also didn't want to say that it was in fact a just frame because as you just pointed out that its not and we both agree that it is more difficult to get used to at the beginning stages of playing..yes

i mean, its usually best to go for learning taking whatever damage(by whatever i mean most damage) you can apply from a juggle/combo with easier/easiest way as possible...adding in the 1a+b will cause mind judgment and make people think.. like..."i think i should be using the easiest input as possible to obtain my goal of juggle damage" instead of trying so hard to get this in only to save almost less than half the same amount of force meter usage..which is GREAT!!.. it is VERY important to save that meter VERY much..

But as a beginner that shouldn't be the main focus(as far as 1a+b~g goes).. when you can dish out the same amount of damage at less of a risk while learning it is better.. the 1a+b~g is more difficult because of that added direction input(so learning it is good enough and in the mean time stick with a+b~g)..there are "other ways" of minimizing the force meter but that all depends on the players knowledge and over all skill, which is why i mentioned about sticking with the a+b version is all, no big deal..its less stress on the player but with doing the same amounts of damage is all...still very good to keep in mind whilst learning him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back