Natsu 1.02 Combo Discussion.

FleshMasher

[13] Hero
66B BE after bomb would be good or all bomb combos from the opening post except air grabs because they can fail depending on which ukemi opponent uses.
 

houndDog75

[09] Warrior
I was playing on line today and I noticed someone doing 6a+b4 A:4 3KKK and then finish with 1a. I thought the beginner was taken out?

what are good uses for 44kk now?
 

Galen

[09] Warrior
CH WRk 6a+b4 PO a:6 3kkk still works.
HOV B WRk 6a+b4 PO a:6 3kkk still works.
CH FC a+b 6a+b4 PO a:6 3kkk works on a hand full of the cast.
If the second hit of 6a+b hits on CH you can go into the combo...

a:6 W! a:6 W! 6a+b4 PO a:6 3kkk works as well...

So there is a good chance you probably saw the combo just not directly from CH 6a+b
 

Yama

[09] Warrior
If it was as described, it's like Galen pointed out. The first hit has to whiff as the second allows you to go into the combo, that's likely what happened. Pretty situational, but definitely prepare yourself to follow up on reaction as that's a lot of free damage if that does occur.

As for that combo, I end it in various ways lately to mix up:

1a - Guaranteed damage.

4a+b -> 4a+b6 - Almost 99% of the time Natsu's 4a+b6 so they can be in PO to mix them up on wake up, this is perfectly well and should be done on a regular basis. However due to the tendency of this, I find using a raw 4a+b ender and following up with a 4a+b6 to be really useful and works well against those who know that match up well. You get the bomb ender damage, then bomb once more instead of rushing in. If it hits, free PO air grab, if it doesn't since it's on wake up you still have the PO pressure and mix up.

2b -> WR b 4a+b a+b 1a - This works a good amount and applies some tasty wake up pressure. You can also make sure it doesn't get telegraphed by ending the combo with 2k and then do the WR b, slightly slower but still great wake up mix up. As for the WR b 4a+b when it hits there are three things to do. If ring out is possible, air grab. Mid screen do a+b 1a and if by a wall and wanting to play the ukemi chance game, a+b 44kkk 1a (or) super.

Post patch has forced us to play more gimmicky, fish less and utilize more mind games and mix up. I actually like the direction it pushed, despite some of the lamer nerfs (darts).
 

houndDog75

[09] Warrior
I loved 4kkk b.c. of the wall jump but now I find that move very hard to use. i feel as if i'm pushed to use the bomb at all cost and then resort to something else if they don't get off the ground at all.

I still fish for 4b

I don't use WR K i should I need to work that into my aresnal. I seeem to use wr b 4a+b then PO airgrab.
 

Yama

[09] Warrior
I loved 4kkk b.c. of the wall jump but now I find that move very hard to use. i feel as if i'm pushed to use the bomb at all cost and then resort to something else if they don't get off the ground at all.

I still fish for 4b

I don't use WR K i should I need to work that into my aresnal. I seeem to use wr b 4a+b then PO airgrab.
If you like her big combo, WR k is a must. HOV b is pretty risky, though works well with guaranteed situational punishment. Those are pretty much the most likely candidates into it.

As for the WR b, it can be great when mixed up with and not relied upon. Like I wrote above, depending on screen positioning, you can do much more after it than the PO air grab too. This can lead to more mix up opportunity than the grab, which is meaningful. Good spacing and a ton of mix up is what makes her still a threat post patch imho.
 

houndDog75

[09] Warrior
I guess i'm confused,
6a+b4 does that not work now everytime with A:6?

why fish for a HOV b when it's so unsafe?

Is there no other way to get into that one combo now
 

FleshMasher

[13] Hero
I guess i'm confused,
6a+b4 does that not work now everytime with A:6?
No.
If you mean on normal hit, the PO A:6 whiffs at certain ranges and on certain characters at all ranges.
And here nothing is guaranteed after A:6

If you mean 6A+B on CH for big combo:

It combos only on counter hit of the second part of 6A+B.
6A+B consists of 2 attacks, the first must not hit, it can be blocked or whiffed, but as soon as the first attack hits, the combo won't work.

why fish for a HOV b when it's so unsafe?
It leads to a big combo from normal hit. And is mostly safe even on just guard.
It just loses to GI.
And stepping, which makes you whiff unsafe.


Is there no other way to get into that one combo now
The ways are at the moment:

HOV :B:~ WS :K:~ :6::A+B:.:4:~ PO :A:::6:~ :3::K:.:K:.:K:~ :k-small::2: -98 DMG

CH WS :K:~ :6::A+B:.:4:~ PO :A:::6:~ :3::K:.:K:.:K:~ :k-small::2: for -85 DMG

and this

*note: First part of :6::A+B: must not hit !!! or combo won't work.
CH :6::A+B:.:4: (2nd part)~ PO :A:::6:~ :3::K:.:K:.:K:~ :k-small::2: -69 DMG

If you are meaning ''That one combo''
 

FleshMasher

[13] Hero
I thought it was completely safe but just tested HOV B again and it's unsafe to Natsu's 2A but not K so i think it's -12 or -13, Natsu's A whiffs because HOV B has crouched recovery. So she avoids highs until she can block.
 

Yama

[09] Warrior
Just be careful against good Asta's, air grabs are imminent against HOV b. Makes for some fun coin flipping up close though, as you can bait it out and punish. Tested out a few things with an Asta main the other day.

PO air grab beats Asta's air throw.
If Asta delays his air throw (very unlikely), he beats Natsu's.
PO2 send him flying over you, can attempt punish with back turned POk.

Granted this is match up discussion, but while on the discussion of HOV b wanted to share.
 

Galen

[09] Warrior
Natsu Natsu mirrors are kinda fun...
FC a+b for the win on CH cause you can get the 6a+b on her. Speaking of which I need to study that list.
 

Gatexor

[08] Mercenary
Yeah.... very easily too. Any B attack will do the trick, most kicks too. Horizontals are trickier but will work too, depending on timing, from what I've seen. HOV spam only works vs noobs :( Some people even go as far as guard impacting it every time to make fun of me -_-
 

SoNG-Of-SiLeNCe

Red Lotus
Yeah.... very easily too. Any B attack will do the trick, most kicks too. Horizontals are trickier but will work too, depending on timing, from what I've seen. HOV spam only works vs noobs :( Some people even go as far as guard impacting it every time to make fun of me -_-
You are probably being predictable with it... I think Natsu's tools are designed to confuse and mislead the opponent. Look at BB~ options.
Look at HOV A being low, HOV B leading to full combo, Mist being a mixup to HOV, etc.
 

Gatexor

[08] Mercenary
I'm sorry, but a 60 frame or smt attack can be GI'd or stepped 100% by anyone with reflexes faster than my grandpa and I can't consider Mist a mixup for HOV when you can counter those PO options on reaction so there's no real need to confirm whether it's HOV or not =/
 

SoNG-Of-SiLeNCe

Red Lotus
I'm sorry, but a 60 frame or smt attack can be GI'd or stepped 100% by anyone with reflexes faster than my grandpa and I can't consider Mist a mixup for HOV when you can counter those PO options on reaction so there's no real need to confirm whether it's HOV or not =/
If you are getting countered on reaction you are probably fighting somebody more skilled than you are... this all boils down to skill, though I do dread the nerf Natsu got from amazing to viable.