Need advice for the upcoming Presidential Election.

You all have "facts" that go against my predetermined position. I'm voting Nader.

Nah, I agree with a lot here. And where I don't agree I still find the discussion entertaining and informative.
 
Vote for Obama. Romney has no clue what he's talking about and clearly he's out of his mind. At least with Obama, you get a whole lot of clarity.
 
I think elections are just ceremonious really. It's usually a vote between "evil" and "more evil". But right now, when there is at least some momentum towards re-regulating Wall Street, a Wall Street insider is not the way to go.

I think that money spent on lobbyists should have the shit taxed out of it. I mean 40-50%. Seriously. I think individuals in our government should be held more responsible. It's their corruption that has caused a mistrust in regulation. When an individual is caught colluding with a corporate entity to undermine laws and regulations, there should be a hefty fine and a mandatory sentence. (Notice how only blue collar crimes carry a mandatory sentence?) And the government official should be banned from serving in the public sector at any capacity. And last but not least - transparency. We're kept in the dark on too much. I want to know how and why we pay way more for nearly all of our services but get way less in return as consumers than any other "civilized" nation. Like in healthcare, communications, education etc... Oh yeah, and privatizing the prison system in a country that incarcerates more of it's own population than China doesn't seem too smart. Oh, and end the drug war. Tax the shit, and let idiots kill themselves off but provide help for those who want to wise up and not be junkies. There are so many times I see a meth addict and want to ask them how much it would cost to buy them enough tweak to just let them O.D. and get it over with.
 
JDub said:
I think elections are just ceremonious really.
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It's almost a shame we don't just have the world ran by supercomputers to determine everything mathematically. Where's the robot-computer apocalypse when you want it? Bleep bloop bleep, my robotic brethren.

It's usually a vote between "evil" and "more evil". But right now, when there is at least some momentum towards re-regulating Wall Street, a Wall Street insider is not the way to go.
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There's no sense in it. If Obama also worked for Bain and was a serial killer just like Romney, then there would be no noteworthy difference between the two. Romneys history with Bain is just a red herring, really. When it comes down to it their policy history is damn near identical. Which makes the hooplah over the apocalypse they're going to cause even more stupid due to their similarities. I think they're both pieces of shit. Like I said, I think the key difference is who they pander to. Every politician is by definition a crook and a liar, trusting one is as clever as putting pedophiles in charge of DFACS/juvenile justice. Obama, Romney, Bush, Clinton, Nader(lol Nader), Lincoln, Washington...Fuck 'em all.
 
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I watched the whole debate. Just going off what they said that day, I would vote for Obama, However....

It doesn't mean Obama will do ANY of the things he said. Remember 4 years ago when Obama said he was gonna bring our troops home, balance the budget, fix the economy, and give us universal health care? Well I do. And guess what? We got NONE of those promises.

So there you have it folks. It's either Obama who flat out lies and feeds off of people's hope (LOL remember the campaign ad "HOPE"?), and a fucking retard Mormon who doesn't have a clue how the world, especially the economy, works. Trickle down economics doesn't work even in a fantasy world of wishful thinking.

My favorite part was Romney saying "I won't lower taxes that will contribute to the national deficit, period". Ummm, HELLO!!! Where's the fucking money gonna come from you tard? It's simple common sense, you lower taxes, you lower revenue, period. You can't have your cake, and eat it too, Romney.

Both of these guys will fuck America up for different reasons. One is a greedy douche, who wants to take away everything that doesn't turn a profit, the other is a wasteful liar who wants to spend money we don't have on things we don't need.

Who do I vote for? I vote for the option to not vote. It would be a huge wake-up call to everyone if Americans stopped voting altogether, and might be the catalyst for change we all need. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I say fuck the 2 party system, we don't need it, all it does is divide us and put us into boxes. All we need right now is strong individuals who aren't born out of wallstreet or out of big business, who actually give a shit, and who are actually poor. What better way to relate to the struggles of the American people than to have someone who's been there, done that, and has a much more practical and realistic world view than these Yale-pampered rich boys who know nothing of actual struggle and hardship?
 
Before the debate: I'm gonna vote for [insert candidate]!

After the debate: I'm gonna vote for [insert same exact candidate]!
 
damn-I-Suck said:
So there you have it folks. It's either Obama who flat out lies and feeds off of people's hope (LOL remember the campaign ad "HOPE"?), and a fucking retard Mormon who doesn't have a clue how the world, especially the economy, works. Trickle down economics doesn't work even in a fantasy world of wishful thinking.

My favorite part was Romney saying "I won't lower taxes that will contribute to the national deficit, period". Ummm, HELLO!!! Where's the fucking money gonna come from you tard? It's simple common sense, you lower taxes, you lower revenue, period. You can't have your cake, and eat it too, Romney.

Both of these guys will fuck America up for different reasons. One is a greedy douche, who wants to take away everything that doesn't turn a profit, the other is a wasteful liar who wants to spend money we don't have on things we don't need.
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Romney knows well how the economy works. If he didn't, I doubt he'd be getting richer every year without employment actually providing more than a tiny fraction of his income. Of course the trickle down economics is BS, always was and always will be: it goes without saying. (Now if only that weren't true for trickle down incompetence...)

Profit is necessary for many things. Simply breaking even just isn't good enough much of the time. If you're only breaking even, you're fucking up. If you're only breaking even and something happens that is detrimental to your profit, what happens? Oh right, you're in the red and possibly worse.


Who do I vote for? I vote for the option to not vote. It would be a huge wake-up call to everyone if Americans stopped voting altogether, and might be the catalyst for change we all need.
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No, all that accomplishes is ensuring the survival of the two party system. The two parties still have the majority of votes. It's only a minority of Americans that vote as it is, ceasing participation in the democratic process only strengthens the system.

The only way to be rid of a two party system is either revolution outright or sustained efforts on a MASSIVE scale by millions to tear the system apart from the inside out and voting for third party candidates very consistently(but still aiming to defeat the two party system; ensuring that a third party doesn't become the new member of the two party system).

...But given how the only people willing to participate in a second American revolution are hardcore extremist militias and only zealots seem to make consistent effort towards that or consistently supporting third parties(most people give up supporting third parties since too few do to make them successful: damn lazy hippies), neither action is really feasible.

There's no feasible way to keep people interested enough for serious change unless somehow America was to become a full-on military dictatorship. But as things are, that simply won't happen. No one with any degree of power in the system(and two functioning neurons) is willing to trade subtle control that is rarely resisted well to overt control that would inspire actual threatening resistance. Without militaristic dictatorship to incite large-scale rebellion, the American political system will not undergo significant changes.


Desperate times call for desperate measures. I say fuck the 2 party system, we don't need it, all it does is divide us and put us into boxes. All we need right now is strong individuals who aren't born out of wallstreet or out of big business, who actually give a shit, and who are actually poor. What better way to relate to the struggles of the American people than to have someone who's been there, done that, and has a much more practical and realistic world view than these Yale-pampered rich boys who know nothing of actual struggle and hardship?
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Er...are you trying to invoke Godwins Law here? Either way though, what divides us is free will. As long as people are free to think what they wish, we will always be divided.

Besides, we've had these kinds of presidents. Asides from Lincoln being so instrumental in the symbolic end of slavery and Clinton helping to pave the way to some of the nastier things pinned on Bush & Obama, I don't think they've done much(but someone please correct me if I'm wrong here: I'm certainly not an expert on this).
 
If I could vote, I would vote for Romney. Obama is going to add trillions of dollars to the deficit and Obama is making up lies about Romney including have a tv ad saying where Romney indirectly killed a woman.
 
Both will ruin the economy, but the methods are different. The end result is the same: economic depression comparable to the 1930's.
 
No. What's really ruined the economy is greed, laziness, and decadence. It's this kooky trend that's become worse and worse. People are spending more of their income on useless things, on entertainment and functionally worthless luxury items(like say Roombas or Segway scooters). People on welfare spend money on video games. Some of the rich actually bother buying gold. And all of us here are guilty of it as well. If you're viewing this board now or ever have, thinking you're any different or better is nothing but delusion since we're wasting time and effort on a worthless hobby with the absolute minimal value(there's some psychological shit that carries over but that's neither here nor there and practical application of it is limited).

Yep. 8wayrun.com is a perfect example of what's wrong with the economy. WOOHOO!
 
I don't think "going back to the basics" is the answer either. Much of the money in this country is gotten from extravagant unnecessary pleasures. Take Tobacco for example. It does nothing good whatsoever, besides make a shit ton of money that is a HUGE contributor to the economy. Just think about all those taxes that they've added for tobacco in the last 10 years, and think about how much revenue the GOV gets from it.

I don't think spending money on "useless" things is bad per se, but only when you're spending more money that you make, that's when there's a big problem.

The US is essentially doing that now, with the trillions of dollars in debt. We are basically borrowing more money from China than we make ourselves.

One way they could help this problem is to stop outsourcing outright. The cost up-front to pay for American wages and business regulations (compared to the laughable China standards), pays for itself in the long run because with more Americans working, making better wages (rather than working at Wallmart), Americans will buy more of the stuff that manufactures make, and they will sell so much more of it that the profits will actually be higher than if they opted for cheap labor such as China.

Not only that, but if we bring jobs back home, we keep the money here in America by paying American workers, who in turn buy stuff in America. When we pay a Chinese worker 30 cents an hour, money is coming from America directly to China. See how much better things are when you keep the money "in-house"?

This is why I have a huge issue with illegal Mexican immigrants. Most of them work their asses off, only to give money to their families in MEXICO. Not only that, they don't pay American Taxes, but still reap the benefits of American welfare systems such as free health clinics. If you don't believe me, go to a free clinic, it's 90% Mexicans. THIS is why we need to crack down on illegal immigration. Call me a bigot, but I support the armed militia at the border.

I've heard the argument that Mexicans do the jobs Americans don't want to. BULLSHIT. I wanted to work construction, but got denied because "I didn't speak Spanish". This is no lie. Mind you, this was California, where Mexicans run rampant and make up almost 50% of the demographic. It's probably not so bad in other parts of the country.

And this is where I take issue with liberals. Many of them don't want to admit to themselves that BILL CLINTON started NAFTA in 1997, which opened up the door to outsourcing being as big as it is today.
 
Wandrian said:
Romney knows well how the economy works. If he didn't, I doubt he'd be getting richer every year without employment actually providing more than a tiny fraction of his income. Of course the trickle down economics is BS, always was and always will be: it goes without saying..
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I doubt anyone who'd advocate trickle down economics as a genuine solution to economic woes really understands how the economy works. Knowing when it's going to rain might keep your head dry but that doesn't mean you understand why it rains.

damn-I-Suck said:
I've heard the argument that Mexicans do the jobs Americans don't want to. BULLSHIT. I wanted to work construction, but got denied because "I didn't speak Spanish". This is no lie. Mind you, this was California, where Mexicans run rampant and make up almost 50% of the demographic. It's probably not so bad in other parts of the country.
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This reeks of bullshit. I advise you to try again, and again and again if necessary. My brother Mike, a very brown man and a mexican american, who lives right here in california, was telling me how he got fired from his last job by two white guys because he wasn't white, he and my other brothers proceeded to tell stories about how they have been mistreated by the white supervisors at their various job sites. It seems likely to me there must be at least one work site out there looking to hire you.

Two more things: Number one: How did you apply?

Number two:
Call me a bigot, but I support the armed militia at the border.
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Okay. You do sound like a bigot. If that's what you were shooting for you totally nailed it. Racist yahoos with little to no training are not the answer. Unless the question is something like "Who are America's number one consumers of Skoal chewing tobacco?" or "What group possesses the highest per capita number of American flag t-shirts?"
 
Ghengis John if you think supporting an armed military around the Mexican/american border is being a bigot then you haven't a clue buddy. I suggest you go to this site www.bestgore.com and see what exactly is going on down there. Its fucking crazy man and its carrying over to the USA. I grew up in texas and know all too well the problems that arise within the work place with illegal immigrants. The problem isn't getting a job, it's that you have to work for peanuts cause if you don't they will. Why would a man pay me a decent wage to support a family w/ insurance and a pension when this wetback will work 12hr a day for 7 bucks an hr with no overtime, no breaks. The saddest part is that it's usually a greedy American making a killing off of them.

At that site look up Los zetas and watch that crazy shit. It's right in your back yard.
 
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