Need advice for the upcoming Presidential Election.

The CBO only uses numbers that are given to them. Heres an example, ObamaCare says it will raise 8 billion dollars that is going to come out of medicaid. That shrinks Medicaid. But each state will be required to have a fixed number of people on medicaid. The states will have to pay to expand medicaid. No one knows how much each state will have to pay. But the CBO only follows whats written in the law and the law claims a 8 billion dollar savings a year, the cost to each state was not taken into account. It says it will get 500 million from medicare so thats what the CBO takes into account. What isnt taken into account is that Medicare will have no choice but to pay less for each doctor visit. Ive heard some doctors no longer accept medicare. The doctor i go to will only accept Medicare from patients he already sees, he doesnt see any new Medicare patients. And its true that ObamaCare will penalize hospitals for too many patient re-visits. Its going to be a huge burden on hospitals. What is a hospital supposed to do when a patient needs to be re-treated? ObamaCare is a trillon dollar program that will only save money in concept.
 
SinsOfSalvation said:
The CBO only uses numbers that are given to them. Heres an example, ObamaCare says it will raise 8 billion dollars that is going to come out of medicaid. That shrinks Medicaid. But each state will be required to have a fixed number of people on medicaid. The states will have to pay to expand medicaid. No one knows how much each state will have to pay. But the CBO only follows whats written in the law and the law claims a 8 billion dollar savings a year, the cost to each state was not taken into account. It says it will get 500 million from medicare so thats what the CBO takes into account. What isnt taken into account is that Medicare will have no choice but to pay less for each doctor visit. Ive heard some doctors no longer accept medicare. The doctor i go to will only accept Medicare from patients he already sees, he doesnt see any new Medicare patients. And its true that ObamaCare will penalize hospitals for too many patient re-visits. Its going to be a huge burden on hospitals. What is a hospital supposed to do when a patient needs to be re-treated? ObamaCare is a trillon dollar program that will only save money in concept.
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Wow, so you're telling me that the CBO does no research? They just take the claims of what ever party is in power at face value? So...that would make the CBO pointless. Unfortunately, the CBO has dis-proven fiscal claims made by both sides multiple times just this year alone.

Cutting wasteful spending in Medicare is a good thing. Of course Doctor's don't like to take Medicare payments. Would you want to get paid market value for your time with one person when you could double that income from another? There is a lot of fraud and waste. Do you keep paying for it just to say that you didn't cut Medicare funding? If services are diminished that would be political suicide thanks to the aging demographic of voters. But the notorious "donut hole" has been closed and greater buying power equals less cost. Personally, the only worst-case-scenario you could convince me of is if the plan ended up being a wash.

You do know that hospitals and clinics intentionally break up visits for higher profit right? I didn't realize this until there was a free clinic here a few years ago. Most test results where completed within half an hour of testing. But, if you go to a for-profit clinic, they make you pay for a separate visit to give you results they probably could have in the first visit (being since it's something not-for-profit clinics have done).

I wonder how much we spend on those stupid fucking "I voted" stickers.
 
thats right, the CBO only uses the numbers that exsist in the ObamaCare law. They only crunch numbers to predict a budget, they dont seek to prove or disprove. And of course doctors break up visits to make more money but cutting Medicare is the answer? Medicare is the primary insurance for senior citizens and they depend on it. Doctors that add visits is something that cant be cured by cutting medicare. That is the inherent reason ObamaCare will fail, because the government cant control the price of healthcare. My mom recently had some heart trouble and she saw a doctor and a heart specialist, then had surgery. It was all freakin expensive and Medicare was the big reason it all went well. How does the government decide that 500 million dollars is actual waste or fraud? Same with the military, they are getting huge budget cuts but there was no suggestion on which programs was wasteful. Its a blind cut. Now some government programs are truly wasteful. Like Harry Reid's "Cowboy Poetry Festival". Thats right folks, thats federal money hard at work.
 
Sorry man. We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm sure the CBO doesn't operate the way you think it does. Otherwise, why would either party bother to even submit a plan to the CBO if it's just going to repeat the conclusions handed to them by that party? Which it has not. I'm sure Obama wanted a much rosier picture painted by the CBO but it didn't happen. Why? Because they are independent analysts who use multiple data points. http://www.cbo.gov/

All I'm saying is, if Medicare services are diminished we'll see it happen. So far, the claims are otherwise. The claims are that they are cutting waste but not benefits. I don't see how you can judge that to be true or not until it happens. Then, we'll both be on the same page. We need better health care not worse. It's a no brainer. But like the military - just throwing them money because you always have isn't good justification to keep doing it.
 
Norik said:
Are you people fucking kidding me? THE ELECTION IS OVER. Your arguments are now invalid.
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Awe. No need for reflection then? Or consideration of the future? SOS and I were just having a friendly conversation. I don't think either of us are trying to get riled up here.

Arm-chair quarterbacking: I think the R's hurt themselves with a convoluted message. If I get rich "I did it on my own" but if I don't get rich "it's the Government's fault." They'll have to tweak it somehow for next time. Maybe someone should tell them not to bring up rape either. They would have had better chances at gaining a few more House and Senate seats.
 
JDub said:
Arm-chair quarterbacking: I think the R's hurt themselves with a convoluted message. If I get rich "I did it on my own" but if I don't get rich "it's the Government's fault." They'll have to tweak it somehow for next time. Maybe someone should tell them not to bring up rape either. They would have had better chances at gaining a few more House and Senate seats.
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I think they should stop this crusade to enrage everyone that isn't an old white dude (women, gays, blacks, latinos, muslims, athiests, poor people, college educated people...just to name a few) just to please batshit insane evangelical racists and bajillioniares it would be a better move. Stay out of people's personal lives altogether even if they object on religious reasons and focus on shrinking the government's footprint. In short, become much more like the libertarians (whose policies they will either adopt to a large degree or end up being replaced by them outright). The only problem is that they dug in their heels on the wrong side of the tug-of-war when they doubled down on a shrinking part of the electorate and it's going to take them at least another presidential cycle or two to convincingly change their message, by which time they more than likely will have lost the Latino vote for the next generation.
 
I spent 20 minutes writing up a post and then my iPads web browser crashed on the last line... Damn it. Sigh. I'll be back later. With a little hate in my heart for Apple and an actual keyboard.
 
Im not arguing with jDub. Ive talked to him before & seen the stuff he posts on threads and so i respect what he has to say. I have him on my "follow" list XD
 
SinsOfSalvation said:
Im not arguing with jDub. Ive talked to him before & seen the stuff he posts on threads and so i respect what he has to say. I have him on my "follow" list XD
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Yeah, hope I haven't come across as a blind partisan. I was just trying to let you know things aren't as bad as they're portrayed when it comes to Health Care legislation. "Obamacare" is a clone of a Health Care bill the Republicans tried to pass in the 90's. Back then the Dem's painted a picture of "doom and gloom" if the Rep's got their way. Since Clinton had the power of veto the Rep's Health Care bill didn't go anywhere. Now that it's law, instead of repealing it and starting over, I think adding to, improving upon and/or modifying the bill just seems like a less disruptive approach.
 
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Okay so long story short. I feel Romney could have actually won this election if he ran as himself, and not as some republican caricature. I don't think he's a bad guy, and he's an honest to God moderate. But he ran around everywhere he could not being true to himself. Why was the guy who founded Romneycare tearing down Obamacare? Why was the guy who RAN the Mormon food bank (an organization that HANDS OUT FOOD to anyone who asks -Mormon or not-) telling rooms full of party loyalists that he didn't believe the poor were ENTITLED TO FOOD? Every time his faith was brought up he tried to downplay and avoid discussion of it. Does Obama downplay his heritage? No. He uses it. This guy couldn't even embrace his own first name. And there's an easy, cheezy slogan there, "Where there's a Will there's a way!" why in God's name did he insist on being called "Mitt"? His constant flip flopping just pointed to a man that wasn't confident enough to be himself, let alone president of the united states.

And when I saw him up there, making his concession speech, I felt a little bad for him. Because I know, he knew, this was his shot and he wasted it by trying to run as somebody else. To paraphrase my old friend Madnis, the man needed to be real. And this I think points to a larger problem with the republican party.

There are several perfectly good reasons to be a republican I'm sure. However, there are also plenty of reasons not to be and a lot of these stem from a disconnect with reality. You can not say for instance that you know there is a problem with healthcare in this country while fighting to maintain the status quo, I'm not convinced that middle easterners "hate us for our freedom" and most people who aren't still certain fire is caused by evil spirits will instantly be turned off by denials of the very existence of climate change. As public opinion continues to turn against them on issues like climate change or gay rights they will continue to see their base shrink and shrink.

I wouldn't be upset if the republican party suddenly ceased to exist, but seeing as that is unlikely to happen and being rational enough to realize that we liberals need a counterbalance to moderate us, it would be nice if the republican party became an entity that existed in the same reality that we did, coming up with real solutions to problems like healthcare and climate change instead of launching further wealth concentration schemes. It would certainly be a lot less scary to think of them winning office.
 
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