Night Side Stance study

In training, I came across some interesting news.

Note: NSS A+B is i19, NSS K is i8.

WR B is -20 on block.

However, WR , NSS K trades with Setsuka's i12 AA, meaning WR is -4 on block.

aB is -3 on block.

However, a, NSS K beats Taki's i10 A and NSS A+B trades with Nightmare's i19 A+K, meaning a is 0 on block.

GS B is -22 on block.

However, GS , NSS K, with the opponent right in front of Nightmare, trades with Setsuka's i20 aB, but sometimes beats it. If the opponent is a fair distance away, I believe the NSS K beats an i20, if it reaches. So GS must be around -12 on block.

3 is supposedly -7 on block.

However, 3, NSS K trades with Setsuka's i16 WR A, loses to her i15 WR K, and beats her i17 WR B. It also loses to Tira's i15 JS FC K (before TC), and trades with her i16 6K. This leads me to believe 3 is -8 on block, not -7.

1B is -8 on block.

However, 1, NSS K beats Amy's i11 6BB, but NSS A+B trades with Nightmares i17 4K, meaning 1 should be +2 on block.

A is -7 on block.

However, [A], NSS K beats Taki's i10 A, but A+B trades with Setuska's i17 1B. Yes, this means [A] gives +2 on block. Also, [A], NSS K is guaranteed on CH at close range, meaning CH [A] is at least +8.

NSS A is -13 on block.

However, NSS [A], NSS K trades with Taki's i10 A, meaning NSS [A] should be -2 on block.

44BB is -22 on block.

However, 44B, NSS K loses to Nightmare's i14 6K and trades with his i19 A+K, meaning 44B is -11 on block.

And there we have it. Feel free to test anything and correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh, and 66B+K has a TC the first few frames. The wiki doesn't say this, unfortunately. Does any one know the frames the TC takes place?


[08] Mercenary
Lol where are you getting your sources from...

WR B is indeed -20 on block
WR is +12 on block, therefore if you were to do NSS K (which is 24 frames, so a 12 frame advantage makes it 12 frames) would also trade blows with setsuka's 12 frame attack.

aB is indeed -3 on block
a is +15 on block, so therefore NSS K comes out in 9 frames, which beats Taki's 10 frame move... you getting me now?

If not, then your sources are wrong lol, there is only a few ways NSS K is at 8 or less frames, and they are:
[A] (NSS K 7 frames)
1 (also 7 frames)
NSS [A] (8 frames)
SC 3 (2 frames)

And they are the raw advantage on block, which if the opponent tries to do something, a NSS K is guaranteed.

So yeah im not sure how you have actually come to those assumptions.... at all...

but based on a few of your theories on the frame data, lets take 44BB for instance:

44BB is indeed -22 on block
44B is +5 on block, so then if you were to use NSS K after (which then turns into 19 frames) it would clash with Nightmares A+K, which is 19 frames.

So i think you actually need to learn the proper frames for the moves regardless:

NSS A+B = 34 frames
NSS K = 24 frames
aB = 16 frames
GS B = 32 frames

So yeah, just a general idea.

But i cant understand how you have got those figures, it unfathomable. Could you please explain? My feeble mind is get mind fucked lol.

But yes go learn Nightmares "Raw" moves frames.


[11] Champion
Pretty sure between Twisted Jester and Greven all the frame data has been figured out already.
NSS K is most definately i8, just look at the wiki. How can you say its 24 frames? Granted, I didn't include the frames it takes to transition into the stance, just the actual move.


[09] Warrior
Both data is correct so far I believe... B+K~NSS K is i24, but NSS K from neutral is i8... And a, NSS should combo all the time but a forces opponents into a crouched position and in the open NSS K whiffs over thier head, but near a wall it's a good combo... If Nightmare gets CH 66K6, W!, GS A, a, NSS K then GS KK techs all directions back into the wall for more fun... B+KG is at least -5 I believe... But, canceling out of another NSS transition is pretty unsafe... NSS and GS are shafted by generic 2A's at close range, there are ways around this like GS A+B and backstepping... But it's still kind of risky, Yun Seong for example gets 4K or 1A after Nightmare's WR on grd, which Nightmare can't backstep... Instead use WR K for poking and punish with the WR , GS KK combo...
Okay, so we're both correct... just different frames, but the same outcome. Nice to know I didn't post a completely useless thread.


[09] Warrior
Yep, and even though this thread is a bit weak new threads are always a good outlet to spark more discussion...
66B+K - TC [7-13]; TJ [14-25]
I have "The Book" near me, my last post is from memory, but here I have NSS K as i9 and B+K~NSS is 15 frames...
B+K - i15
G = -15
H = -15
CH = -15

NSS A - i24
G = -14~-12
H = +2~+4
CH = +2~+4
TC [13-20]

NSS [A] - i24
G = -1~+1
H = +15~+17
CH = +15~+17

NSS B - i28
G = -20
H = -4

NSS bA - i16~i20
G = -18
TSS; DL; TC [9-12]

NSS b:A - i15
G = -18
TSS; TC [8-11]; JF

NSS K - i9
G = -18

NSS A+B - i19
G = -17

^Thats what I have for NSS...
Here is what I have for NSS Transitions:

[A] - i17
G = +2~+5
H = +6~+9
CH = +9~+12

a - i16~i24
G = +0
H = +12
CH = +14

3 - i23
G = -7
H = LNC/ +7(tip)
CH = LNC/ +7(tip)
~NSS (opponent ~FC on Grd)

1 - i29
G = +2~+3
H = +15~+16
CH = STN(+19~+20)
~NSS (opponent ~FC on Grd & CH)

WR - i16
G = -3
CH = STN(+19)
~NSS; TC [1-3]

44B - i35
G = -10

GS - i22
G = -12~-11
~NSS; TC [0-1]

Soul Charge 3 - i23
G = +7
H = LNC/ +7(tip)
CH = LNC/ +7(tip)

Thats that, and I've retested it over and over, B+K is 15 frames...


[08] Mercenary
Well its easy to clarify it is 15 frames. Lets take NSS K for instance, 24 frames normally. And then NSS A+B, 34 frames normally. But if NSS A+B was 19 frames, which if you take off 34 = 15 frames for the stance transition to activate, for a better term of the word. but then if you were to take 15 off 24 = 9...

So then if NSS K was 8 frames, that would make no sense, unless by a miracle/flaw the stance transition's speed changes with "buffered moves" so yeah, its 9 lol. You dont need a calculator to figure that out, unless it actually 8 frames, which means NSS A+B is 18 frames, which its not :P.