Night Side Stance study

In training, I came across some interesting news.

Note: NSS A+B is i19, NSS K is i8.

WR B is -20 on block.

However, WR , NSS K trades with Setsuka's i12 AA, meaning WR is -4 on block.

aB is -3 on block.

However, a, NSS K beats Taki's i10 A and NSS A+B trades with Nightmare's i19 A+K, meaning a is 0 on block.

GS B is -22 on block.

However, GS , NSS K, with the opponent right in front of Nightmare, trades with Setsuka's i20 aB, but sometimes beats it. If the opponent is a fair distance away, I believe the NSS K beats an i20, if it reaches. So GS must be around -12 on block.

3 is supposedly -7 on block.

However, 3, NSS K trades with Setsuka's i16 WR A, loses to her i15 WR K, and beats her i17 WR B. It also loses to Tira's i15 JS FC K (before TC), and trades with her i16 6K. This leads me to believe 3 is -8 on block, not -7.

1B is -8 on block.

However, 1, NSS K beats Amy's i11 6BB, but NSS A+B trades with Nightmares i17 4K, meaning 1 should be +2 on block.

A is -7 on block.

However, [A], NSS K beats Taki's i10 A, but A+B trades with Setuska's i17 1B. Yes, this means [A] gives +2 on block. Also, [A], NSS K is guaranteed on CH at close range, meaning CH [A] is at least +8.

NSS A is -13 on block.

However, NSS [A], NSS K trades with Taki's i10 A, meaning NSS [A] should be -2 on block.

44BB is -22 on block.

However, 44B, NSS K loses to Nightmare's i14 6K and trades with his i19 A+K, meaning 44B is -11 on block.

And there we have it. Feel free to test anything and correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh, and 66B+K has a TC the first few frames. The wiki doesn't say this, unfortunately. Does any one know the frames the TC takes place?
 

TadeMasu

[08] Mercenary
Lol where are you getting your sources from...

WR B is indeed -20 on block
WR is +12 on block, therefore if you were to do NSS K (which is 24 frames, so a 12 frame advantage makes it 12 frames) would also trade blows with setsuka's 12 frame attack.

aB is indeed -3 on block
a is +15 on block, so therefore NSS K comes out in 9 frames, which beats Taki's 10 frame move... you getting me now?

If not, then your sources are wrong lol, there is only a few ways NSS K is at 8 or less frames, and they are:
[A] (NSS K 7 frames)
1 (also 7 frames)
NSS [A] (8 frames)
SC 3 (2 frames)

And they are the raw advantage on block, which if the opponent tries to do something, a NSS K is guaranteed.

So yeah im not sure how you have actually come to those assumptions.... at all...

but based on a few of your theories on the frame data, lets take 44BB for instance:

44BB is indeed -22 on block
44B is +5 on block, so then if you were to use NSS K after (which then turns into 19 frames) it would clash with Nightmares A+K, which is 19 frames.

So i think you actually need to learn the proper frames for the moves regardless:

NSS A+B = 34 frames
NSS K = 24 frames
aB = 16 frames
GS B = 32 frames

So yeah, just a general idea.

But i cant understand how you have got those figures, it unfathomable. Could you please explain? My feeble mind is get mind fucked lol.

But yes go learn Nightmares "Raw" moves frames.
 

Tiamat

[11] Champion
Pretty sure between Twisted Jester and Greven all the frame data has been figured out already.
 
NSS K is most definately i8, just look at the wiki. How can you say its 24 frames? Granted, I didn't include the frames it takes to transition into the stance, just the actual move.
 

ZOMBIEBEAR666

[09] Warrior
Both data is correct so far I believe... B+K~NSS K is i24, but NSS K from neutral is i8... And a, NSS should combo all the time but a forces opponents into a crouched position and in the open NSS K whiffs over thier head, but near a wall it's a good combo... If Nightmare gets CH 66K6, W!, GS A, a, NSS K then GS KK techs all directions back into the wall for more fun... B+KG is at least -5 I believe... But, canceling out of another NSS transition is pretty unsafe... NSS and GS are shafted by generic 2A's at close range, there are ways around this like GS A+B and backstepping... But it's still kind of risky, Yun Seong for example gets 4K or 1A after Nightmare's WR on grd, which Nightmare can't backstep... Instead use WR K for poking and punish with the WR , GS KK combo...
 
Okay, so we're both correct... just different frames, but the same outcome. Nice to know I didn't post a completely useless thread.
 

ZOMBIEBEAR666

[09] Warrior
Yep, and even though this thread is a bit weak new threads are always a good outlet to spark more discussion...
66B+K - TC [7-13]; TJ [14-25]
I have "The Book" near me, my last post is from memory, but here I have NSS K as i9 and B+K~NSS is 15 frames...
B+K - i15
G = -15
H = -15
CH = -15
~NSS; TBS

NSS A - i24
G = -14~-12
H = +2~+4
CH = +2~+4
TC [13-20]

NSS [A] - i24
G = -1~+1
H = +15~+17
CH = +15~+17
~NSS; TC

NSS B - i28
G = -20
H = -4
CH = KND

NSS bA - i16~i20
G = -18
H = KND
CH = KND
TSS; DL; TC [9-12]

NSS b:A - i15
G = -18
H = KND
CH = KND
TSS; TC [8-11]; JF

NSS K - i9
G = -18
H = KND
CH = CSTN

NSS A+B - i19
G = -17
H = LNC
CH = LNC

^Thats what I have for NSS...
Here is what I have for NSS Transitions:

[A] - i17
G = +2~+5
H = +6~+9
CH = +9~+12
~NSS

a - i16~i24
G = +0
H = +12
CH = +14
~NSS; DL

3 - i23
G = -7
H = LNC/ +7(tip)
CH = LNC/ +7(tip)
~NSS (opponent ~FC on Grd)

1 - i29
G = +2~+3
H = +15~+16
CH = STN(+19~+20)
~NSS (opponent ~FC on Grd & CH)

WR - i16
G = -3
H = LNC
CH = STN(+19)
~NSS; TC [1-3]

44B - i35
G = -10
H = GSTN/ SLNC
CH = GSTN/ SLNC
~NSS; NC

GS - i22
G = -12~-11
H = KND
CH = LNC
~NSS; TC [0-1]

Soul Charge 3 - i23
G = +7
H = LNC/ +7(tip)
CH = LNC/ +7(tip)
~NSS; GB

Thats that, and I've retested it over and over, B+K is 15 frames...
 

TadeMasu

[08] Mercenary
Well its easy to clarify it is 15 frames. Lets take NSS K for instance, 24 frames normally. And then NSS A+B, 34 frames normally. But if NSS A+B was 19 frames, which if you take off 34 = 15 frames for the stance transition to activate, for a better term of the word. but then if you were to take 15 off 24 = 9...

So then if NSS K was 8 frames, that would make no sense, unless by a miracle/flaw the stance transition's speed changes with "buffered moves" so yeah, its 9 lol. You dont need a calculator to figure that out, unless it actually 8 frames, which means NSS A+B is 18 frames, which its not :P.