Not all PS3s equal in regards to SCIV?

[Isaac]

UM.......

Isn't the original question of this thread over whether or not some PS3s have more slowdown than other PS3s?

He's saying that in CaS mode, his PS3 has a few seconds of lag, while his friend's PS3 does not. I'm assuming they both did the install of the game. I haven't really experienced this myself and I always thought all PS3s run games the exact same way... But I may be wrong.

 

[SickFace]

then research for yourself, I wont the work for you, but I can tell you that some of id works for microsofts halo team.

I'm sorry, but you are just making shit up here.

Sorry for the thread derail guys.

Cosmic, since you are so into "research" I'll provide a few links for you to read.

http://www.hardcoreware.net/playstation-3-vs-xbox-360-one-year-later/


"Graphics

This is a sticky subject for a lot of fanboys. A very common argument in most flame wars is that the Playstation 3 simply “has better graphics”. I’m not sure where that argument came from; Sony obviously did a good job of marketing the system. However, the argument is entirely false. The Xenos GPU on the XBOX 360 is superior the RSX on the PS3. This is one thing that didn’t change in the past year.

Xenos simply has more power - higher fillrate, higher pixel processing power, higher vertex processing power, and better memory architecture. If you look at multiplatform games and contrast the graphics on the two consoles, XBOX 360 almost always leads. Whether they use a higher resolution or higher quality antialiasing, games often look better and/or play smoother on the 360. We looked at a handful of multiplatform games a while back, and this was always the case.

Again, we have to consider that Cell has the potential to help with graphics on the Playstation 3. As developers become more familiar with the platform, they are going to come up with new tricks to help games run smoother, and allow them to look better. However, one year after its introduction we aren’t seeing huge leaps (or even baby steps) towards this, except on a couple exclusive titles."

http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/35372/?spage=1

"Now the 360’s GPU is one impressive piece of work and I’ll say from the get go it’s much more advanced than the PS3’s GPU"

"Microsoft also says it can also achieve a pixel-fillrate of 16Gigasamples per second. This GPU here inside the Xbox 360 is literally an early ATI R600, which when released by ATI for the pc will be a Directx 10 GPU. Xenos in a lot of areas manages to meet many of the requirements that would qualify it as a Directx 10 GPU, but falls short of the requirements in others. What I found interesting was Microsoft said the 360’s GPU could perform 48 billion shader operations per second back in 2005. However Bob Feldstein, VP of engineering for ATI, made it very clear that the 360’s GPU can perform 2 of those shaders per cycle so the 360’s GPU is actually capable of 96 billion shader operations per second."

"The logic unit will be able to exchange data with the 10MB of RAM at 2 Terabits a second. Things such as antialiasing, computing z depths or occlusion culling can happen on the EDRAM without impacting the GPU’s workload."

"The 360 GPU has 48 unified pipelines capable of accepting either pixel or vertex shader operations whereas with the older dedicated pixel and vertex pipeline architecture that RSX uses when you are in a vertex heavy situation most of the 24 pixel pipes go idle instead of helping out with vertex work."

Ya. I sure don't know where I get this stuff. Oh, right.. facts.

 

[DeathCom]

WTH, my thread got completely hijacked by this 360 vs PS3 stuff.

This was never about 360 vs PS3, this is about PS3 VS PS3! I put out a simple notice about a little thing about how fast the created character's physiques are updated, mention the 360, and now its all out the window.

Lets get the whole PS3 vs 360 crap out of the way. Here are the facts in regards to this topic.

• Once SCIV is installed, it loads faster on PS3 than on 360.
• Not installed, SCIV loads faster on 360.
• All 360s update created character body adjustments faster than PS3s (installed or not).
• Some PS3s update created character body types SLOWER than other PS3s.
• The PS3 version has significantly MORE slowdown than the 360 version.
• Online play is about equal on both platforms EXCEPT in regards to quick and custom match which have far less 'room is full' or connection issues. The PS3's slowdowns also degrade online play a bit more.

Ok that last bit had little to do with the topic, but had to put it out there anyway.

So, lets just put it as a question. For those willing to participate, on YOUR PS3 version of SCIV, how fast is the update on created character's physique and muscularity? When you slide the option, do you see it fade into updates continually, or does it do nothing until you stop adjusting? Sate the model of PS3 you have with your answer.

My answer:
Nothing changes until I stop adjusting - PS3 60GB (December 2006)

-DeathCom

 

[ooberallen]

I get about 2 - 3 seconds of lag before the models update but when I use the physique sliders I tend to move it really far at once instead of gradually upping it.

 

[Axzarious]

Well, you might be right there, I have not checked the links, however, when it comes down to whats superior, It comes to the games. To me, If you get a good PC, and a PS3, you have everything the Xbox360 has and more. I own a PS3, PC, Wii, and DS, and so far I have seen no reason to even ponder getting a 360, as anthing I might want on it will either be released for the PS3, or the PC (and for some titles, even the wii).

Also SickFace, look at your link..... NOVEMBER 20th... LAST YEAR! It hardley stands in most catagories right now. Although the ones you posted, it might still 'stay' but those are really the only two positive things. They have stated that the PS3 has potential far greater than the XBOX360, but it has not been tapped yet, one of the things being thier listing of the comparisons between the early PS2 games and the later PS2 games (They even mentioned PS1 there). So technically, although a few years have passed, they are saying that the PS3 has not reached its potential, and WILL be better than the 360 BY FAR in the end. As for the other consoles.... THE WII PWNS ALL! Now all we need is a decent 3rd party game aside from No More Heroes, House of the dead 2&3 and resident evil 4.

 

[SickFace]

Well, you might be right there, I have not checked the links, however, when it comes down to whats superior, It comes to the games. To me, If you get a good PC, and a PS3, you have everything the Xbox360 has and more. I own a PS3, PC, Wii, and DS, and so far I have seen no reason to even ponder getting a 360, as anthing I might want on it will either be released for the PS3, or the PC (and for some titles, even the wii).

Also SickFace, look at your link..... NOVEMBER 20th... LAST YEAR! It hardley stands in most catagories right now. Although the ones you posted, it might still 'stay' but those are really the only two positive things. They have stated that the PS3 has potential far greater than the XBOX360, but it has not been tapped yet, one of the things being thier listing of the comparisons between the early PS2 games and the later PS2 games (They even mentioned PS1 there). So technically, although a few years have passed, they are saying that the PS3 has not reached its potential, and WILL be better than the 360 BY FAR in the end. As for the other consoles.... THE WII PWNS ALL! Now all we need is a decent 3rd party game aside from No More Heroes, House of the dead 2&3 and resident evil 4.

Yah you're right it all comes down to what you prefer. I plan on getting a PS3 soon because I want Blue-ray and a couple of games. If you have a PC then there is no reason to buy a 360 as all the exclusives come there anyway.

It doesn't matter how old the article is, the tech still stands. The truth is people don't know enough about the Cell to have really seen what it can do yet, but so far there hasn't been any results to prove it has an advantage. The reason I posted the Carmack interview is because that was just a few weeks ago. The truth is not many developers can speak out about this because they are scared of the repercussions from Sony.

Here is another article about a ex harmonix developer talking about the ps3 hardware.
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archives/2007/10/29/exguitar_hero_developer_bashes_ps3.html

I'm really not trying to say one is better than the other. Both are awesome systems that have advantages. The truth is people like Cosmic who make shit up, simply piss me off.

Again sorry for the thread derail.

 

[Kolhell]

i phail this thread and everyone involved in it.

the OP was asking about whether certain PS3s lag more than OTHER PS3s. he said the conversation came up after looking at SC4 on a 360, and that one friends PS3 loads character models like the 360, while his PS3 is significantly slower.



to reiterate: this is NOT a PS3 vs 360 thread.

this is a "my PS3 apparently sucks more than my friends - has anyone else run into this?" thread.

 

[Jaxel]

but I do feel cheated that what I paid for still hasn't shown all that power.

It has... play Uncharted: Drakes Fortune. Its just that most people haven't played it.

Sony obviously did a good job of marketing the system.

No they didn't... If they did, then majority of people wouldn't think the PS3 is overpriced. The Wii launched as a $97 console that you had to pay $250 for. The PS3 launched as $930 console that you had to pay $600 for... yet the PS3 was the ripoff. Great marketting.

The truth is people don't know enough about the Cell to have really seen what it can do yet, but so far there hasn't been any results to prove it has an advantage.

Do you know what Folding@HOME is? Its a way for people to contribute the unused processor cycles of their computers to genomic sequencing. When Folding@HOME came to the PS3; the amount of cycles done by the cell processors in just TWO days, outperformed the entirety of every single other type of processor in the network for the combined total of FIFTY days, while only having 5% of the active CPUs in the system. (http://kotaku.com/gaming/folding@home/ps3-dominates-foldinghome-246543.php)

The PS3s on Folding@HOME have since achieved a petaflop (over a 50 day timespan of stats). Now, many other academic institutions have been using the Cell processor to handle their pure algoritms. And the PS3 does all this while only having a predicted 1% failure rate, according to brick and mortar outlets like Gamestop and BestBuy.

As for differences between different SKUs of the PS3... who knows. On my game, SOMETIMES it updates the bodies instantly, sometimes it takes 2 seconds. I think all PS3s are pretty much the same, its just how lucky you are at the time. I have an Emotion Engine PS3 (Cause I'm not a retard?).

 

[DeathCom]

...to reiterate: this is NOT a PS3 vs 360 thread.

this is a "my PS3 apparently sucks more than my friends - has anyone else run into this?" thread.

Exactly. At least some of you are getting it.

ooberallen, thanks. Ive polled a few others, it seems to be the norm for it to be slower like that. But there are apparent exceptions.

-DeathCom

 

[CptCosmic]

What in the jebus happened to this thread?? Also, to the above poster, I believe the original topic was referring to the actual game speed, not network latency. I can understand your comment though, since this thread has had a bit of misdirection.

I was bored at work because our PM is lazy again, so nothing to do for me and sickface is amusing me/making my day =D
I already stated I dont have any slowdowns while playing except online where it is dependent on the connection because the netcode is designed to wait until both clients respond otherwise the game will do nothing and @character editor it takes ~1 second to load new texture for me.

btw sickface you are still too lazy to research for yourself instead you are reading articles which are written to point out someones opinion =D and you even fail @reading

It's an interesting piece, although certainly not the only point of view I've heard from developers - Epic chief Mark Rein has mounted a robust defense of PS3 on several occasions (one here), and, of course, Brian Hastings of Insomniac provided a witty pro-PS3 anti-Wii tirade (see here) on the company's website.

The thing is, next-generation videogame development is now so enormously complex and demanding, almost every studio (and everyone within each studio) is going to have a different play on the intrinsic advantages and disadvantages of each platform, based on their own personal experiences. Having an opinion on a piece of games hardware is now almost a political undertaking, similarly fraught with personal prejudice and conflicting data.

even this article is pointing out that whatever important person is saying, it is just business =D wow you shot in your leg twice, doenst it hurt?


well I will do you another favor, I have wrote down the most important numbers for both:

***RSX / Xenos***
-Maximum shader operations:
136 billion per second / 48 billion per second
-Maximum Dot product operations:
54 billion per second / 24 billion per second
Overall System Floating-Point Performance:
1.8 TFLOP / 1 TFLOP
now the advantage the xenos has is when dealing with anti aliasing cause it has its eDRAM (probably you still dont know what this is) just for only this feature, this is where it is rly impressive, probably twice as fast, shifting the numbers a bit under real use (but still the RSX has twice the MATH power), but this doesnt matter since the PS3 can share and redesignate ressources to other components. CELL + the main memory can help out when needed making it even better.

 

[ShenYu]

Do you know what Folding@HOME is? Its a way for people to contribute the unused processor cycles of their computers to genomic sequencing. When Folding@HOME came to the PS3; the amount of cycles done by the cell processors in just TWO days, outperformed the entirety of every single other type of processor in the network for the combined total of FIFTY days, while only having 5% of the active CPUs in the system. (http://kotaku.com/gaming/folding@home/ps3-dominates-foldinghome-246543.php)

That's because this kind of work is something the stream processors in Cell are suited for. Games generally use very general purpose code, which is why you need a lot of optimising for the PS3 since it only has one "general purpose" core as compared to the 360's 3. I think once a lot of optimised middleware comes down the pipe for the PS3 you'll start to see some things that REALLY aren't possible on the 360. Especially in the area of physics.

But if you're going to bring up the PS3 F@H results then you might as well take a look at the ATI/NVIDIA results. They already outperform Cell at F@H by far. That said though, the hardware for GPUs is even more specialised than that of Cell.

As for the OP issue... can't say I ever noticed anything in particular. Could be due to disk fragmentation. The slowdowns during gameplay are what bother me the most.

 

[Spuro]

Speaking of the PS3, does anyone know if Namco will add Trophies in SCIV for the PS3? Like how it is with achievements for the Xbox 360?