Quick Steps (Meeting Frame Data!)

Dreamkiller & Chuck the Landslide are back in another edition of their tutorial series "Quick Steps". In this episode, we take a look at frame data and some of the more "advanced" areas of the game. Be sure to check it out if you're interested in learning the game!

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Quick Steps Episode 0: Meeting Frame Data!

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Quick Steps Ep. 1: How to use training mode

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IM LEARNING!!!

 

But couldn't you just shortcut frame data as "this move is faster than that move" rather than memorizing numbers?

 

But couldn't you just shortcut frame data as "this move is faster than that move" rather than memorizing numbers?

You can say that - for specific characters. The number system is in place to figure out what's faster than other things - as well as what's punishable by other moves. Character by character, you need to know the number system in order to figure out what is faster/what is punishable/etc.

 

But couldn't you just shortcut frame data as "this move is faster than that move" rather than memorizing numbers?

Yes, but knowing how fast a move is comes in when calculating other stuff. It's nice to say a porsche and viper are faster than an accord, but how much faster is the porsche over the viper?

 

But couldn't you just shortcut frame data as "this move is faster than that move" rather than memorizing numbers?

That's only one aspect of frame data (knowing how fast the move is)
The real meat and potatoes of frame data is know the full properties of the move. IE how many frames the move takes to hit and how many frames plus or minus on block, hit or CH a move is.

The reason that's important is to apply that "this move is faster" aspect to actual game play for proper punishing.

 

Much better! Although still quite ambiguous...

 

The red haired guy looks a lot like me... xD

 

Sigh...

I really hate not having a copy if the Future Press guide.

 

Good tutorials!

Have to say, despite enjoying some of the easy shortcuts in the current training mode, there are some things I used to do all the time that I'm not sure you can do -at all- in the current training mode.

The most obvious is that I don't see any way to randomly select between three options (maybe it's there; unless you're doing one of the preselected options the new mode is harder to use, particularly since it has two different tabs that let you control the dummy depending on what you want to control). This makes it pretty hard to train reactions with a limited set of inputs imex; in the old way I'd say record two different UBs or slow moves (or just a reactable mixup) with different valid responses and try to train myself to impact/JI/duck/sidestep, but I don't see a good way now to go "select a random from a list of recorded moves" in the current training mode. It's quite good for combo-checking, but I'm not sure how good it is for actually training.

 

I would not mind the number ordeal if I knew where the key to understanding it was, care to help any1?

 

The most obvious is that I don't see any way to randomly select between three options

You can still do this, just record whatever you want then:

Start>2P settings>Control Settings>Move Slot>Replay>Random

 

Hi, I'm glad there's a video about frame data! Until now Ive always played fighting games with a mind set " in order to be a good player I have to know the moves of my character. Thats it!" Obviously I was incorrect because I wasn't paying no mind to frame data. I really like using Pyrrha Omega, thanks to the guide book I kinda understand the type of char she is and why I tend to lose against other players ( I lose to ppl who don't even own the game). So now Im starting to look at the frame data n info and Im still a bit confused. One example is...
When I look at her AA impact 12 / block -8,-4 / hit 2,8 how does this data add up too...Raphael's AA impact 16 / block -10,-5 / hit -4,4.

Does this mean that O Pyrrha's AA is faster than Raph's AA? Should he block my AA it would take 8,4 frames for me to recover? If Im right, this is where I get confused because I look at all of Raphael's data and most of his Impacts are around the 10+ does that mean he cant punish that attck (assuming that his in range of course)? When I think about it Im like " that doesnt make sense" Im sorry if Im sounding confusing. Its just Im stuck and could use a detailed explanation. Sorry >.< Thanks again for the video, Ill continue to read more about this =)

PS
is there a wiki for all these SC acronyms? I know very few of them like NS and DNS, yes I know its sad being that I played SC since SE T_T

 

I posted the same question and noone replied, so, I will reply for you....yes, there is a thread with the explanation of the terms, I believe it is called the "newbie silencer". It is a great help, the only term I have came across that is not on it is CE.

 

The newbie silencer is very good, though it needs to be updated to the new game.

@EGSouthSky, you're quite right that it means that Pyrrha Ω's AA is faster than Ralph's, and that Ralph cannot block-punish Pyrrha Ω's AA. Impact generally refers to the amount of startup animation before a hit, while when you've got multiple numbers, they're the hit/block recovery for each piece. So if you do A, it's got an 8 frame recovery on block (that -8) and imposes a 2 frame recovery on the opponent if they're hit -- not enough to combo, but enough that one of your medium moves might beat out Ralph's faster moves if he attacks rather than blocking. If you do AA, it's only got a 4 frame recovery on block (enough that it's very not punishable) and imposes an 8 frame recovery on the opponent if they're hit--which isn't enought for Pyrrha Ω to combo, but is enough for a very nice frame trap or a grab/mid mixup.

 

The newbie silencer is very good, though it needs to be updated to the new game.

@EGSouthSky, you're quite right that it means that Pyrrha Ω's AA is faster than Ralph's, and that Ralph cannot block-punish Pyrrha Ω's AA. Impact generally refers to the amount of startup animation before a hit, while when you've got multiple numbers, they're the hit/block recovery for each piece. So if you do A, it's got an 8 frame recovery on block (that -8) and imposes a 2 frame recovery on the opponent if they're hit -- not enough to combo, but enough that one of your medium moves might beat out Ralph's faster moves if he attacks rather than blocking. If you do AA, it's only got a 4 frame recovery on block (enough that it's very not punishable) and imposes an 8 frame recovery on the opponent if they're hit--which isn't enought for Pyrrha Ω to combo, but is enough for a very nice frame trap or a grab/mid mixup.

Thanks a lot! That helps me understand it a lot more. I have another question, I've watched videos or heard ppl say frame data can help you create combos?? How does that work? Thanks!

 

Basically, if the advantage you get from the previous move is less than the impact of another move, you may be able to combo into that move. Longer combos take advantage of a sequence of moves, each of which lets you recover enough before the opponent does that you can perform the next move before they can block or evade. So you're looking for moves whose Impact is less or equal to the previous move's +Frame. We don't generally get frame advantage numbers on stun or knockdown moves on the framedata charts (never been sure why not, except for shakable stuns) but those tend to be where the big advantage is that lets you combo into a high impact move.