Quickstep comparison from crouch

WuHT

Premium Moderator
Can anyone verify if there is a difference tapping 22 vs 88 from crouch (1p) side?

It seems to me that you 22 is faster (or 88 if you're 2p) is faster (basically tapping the same button used for crouching).

This may have something to do with RCC, but i'm putting this forward because i have a much easier time QSing pyrrha's 66B BE by using the down direction instead of tapping up (95% success rate vs 0% success rate).

I swapped sides and still had tapping down (88 for 2P) being evasive while 22 failed.

I then looked at just a 66B vs QS, and it seems that my character seemlessly did a QS from crouch if he QSed towards the screen and if he QSed away from the screen he'd have to stand up briefly before the QS white wind marks appeared.
 

Mojo

[10] Knight
I'm not giving any opinions on the actual topic but...

It seems to me that you 22 is faster (or 88 if you're 2p)


Am I failing to think of something or were you really high when you posted this.
 
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WuHT

Premium Moderator
I'm not giving any opinions on the actual topic but...


Am I failing to think of something or were you really high when you posted this.

Test it out yourself.

If you try to QS towards the screen (22 for 1p or 88 for 2P) i managed to QS the 2nd hit of pyrrha's 66B BE no problem. QSing away from the screen was impossible for me, and I don't think it was a hitbox issue because I could QS both directions (granted I needed to be on the specific 1p/2p side). This lead me to the assumption that QSing towards the screen is more seamless.
 

Zyrusticae

[09] Warrior
Um. You do realize that it's the 22 motion that moves towards the screen on both sides, right?

Further, that the crouching input is also the same on both sides?

Given this (and frankly, I'm really confused by what you're trying to say here), you either DO mean the 88 motion on the 2p side and thus the motion is to the left of the opposing character, which is, for whatever reason, a commonly difficult-to-track direction for most characters, or you actually mean the 22 motion on the 2p side, and the speed is instead related to the crouching state and motion.
 

Mojo

[10] Knight
No, I was just wondering why you're saying the 22 for 1p would be different for 2P down is the same direction no matter which way you're facing.

Like I said, unless I'm missing something. Which is entirely possible.
 

Eli123s

when it rains, it pours
WuHT.

I think this is an issue with the mechanics in the game. When certain moves put you in FC and you press 88 on 1P side (22 on 2P side). The system think you trying to jump at first because of the initial "8 input on 1P or 2 input on 2P" but then realizes you actually want to step after the other "8 input on 1P or 2 input on 2P". Its because of that delay move like Pyrrha 66B BE hit you if you try to QS 88 on 1P side/QS 22 on 2P side.

You will actually still see the wind effect when your try to QS 88 on 1P vs Pyrrha 66B BE.

The only way to actually QS 88 on 1P or QS 22 on 2P is to commit to an attack. 88B/88A/88K on 1P side. 22B/22A/22K on 2P side. But the timing of this is very strict vs Pyrrha 66B BE. If you mess up you do a jump attack instead.
 
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WuHT

Premium Moderator
Um. You do realize that it's the 22 motion that moves towards the screen on both sides, right?
You are incorrect.
Further, that the crouching input is also the same on both sides?
this part is correct.
Given this (and frankly, I'm really confused by what you're trying to say here), you either DO mean the 88 motion on the 2p side and thus the motion is to the left of the opposing character, which is, for whatever reason, a commonly difficult-to-track direction for most characters, or you actually mean the 22 motion on the 2p side, and the speed is instead related to the crouching state and motion.
Just take the statement for what it is. I'm saying if i'm stepping RIGHT when i'm 1p and LEFT when i'm 2p. While this may seem hard to grasp, it's probably the context of the question that you are struggling to understand.


No, I was just wondering why you're saying the 22 for 1p would be different for 2P down is the same direction no matter which way you're facing.

Like I said, unless I'm missing something. Which is entirely possible.

Yes you are missing something. To side step towards the screen when i'm 2P, I press the down button twice quickly. I don't know if you're playing with inverse controls but hopefully that is clear.

did it occur to you that maybe the move tracks better to one side?

Here are some excerpts for you to read while you think about your question:

"It seems to me that you 22 is faster (or 88 if you're 2p) is faster (basically tapping the same button used for crouching). I swapped sides and still had tapping down (88 for 2P) being evasive while 22 failed."

"If you try to QS towards the screen (22 for 1p or 88 for 2P) i managed to QS the 2nd hit of pyrrha's 66B BE no problem. QSing away from the screen was impossible for me, and I don't think it was a hitbox issue because I could QS both directions (granted I needed to be on the specific 1p/2p side)."

Since you sound confused, i'll explain to you that it is unlikely that a character's attack will change tracking if they're on 1P or 2P.

In fact, since you do really sound confused, i'll explain that 22 command for 1p is pressing down-down. 88 command for 2p is also down-down. If you understand how 3-d space works, you'll realize that this means that i'm stepping in the opposite direction when i'm describing 2p.

Wow I do sound like an patronizing asshole, but trying to dumb down the analogy is probably the best way to get the point across.

Eli's post is a breath of fresh air godammit
 

CarteBlanche

[09] Warrior
So now the command for say, jumping kick, would be 8K for 1P and 2K for 2P?
WuHT, you're the one who's confused, so you should stop using inputs for now.
(Or rather, I understand your logic, but nobody reverses vertical inputs, only horizontal.)

Your point is simple : you think we dodge faster from crouch if we move towards the screen rather than if we move away from it.
No need for notations.

I won't bother testing this myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if you were correct... SCV is so inconsistent it makes me want to slap the developers.
 

DrakeAldan

Follow the rules!
And here I thought you had to step 66B BE to one specific side because Pyrrha switches hands.

Thanks guy, this helps a lot.
 

Mojo

[10] Knight
Yes you are missing something. To side step towards the screen when i'm 2P, I press the down button twice quickly. I don't know if you're playing with inverse controls but hopefully that is clear.
Oh, ok. I get it now, you're talking about the characters moving in the same direction. Like if they were on opposing "ends" of a circle and you were trying to get them both to move clockwise. So in order to move counter-clockwise on that circle 2p hits 88 and 1p hits 22.

I thought you were talking about both of them just stepping toward the screen, as in one is going clockwise (2p) and one will be going counter-clockwise (1p). Which in that case both characters would hit 22.

The way you stated it in your original post was confusing.
 
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WuHT

Premium Moderator
So now the command for say, jumping kick, would be 8K for 1P and 2K for 2P?

No. I specifically said that crouching is "2" for both 1p and 2p.
WuHT, you're the one who's confused, so you should stop using inputs for now.
Yeah i originally was more interested in the side stepping properties but it seems I now have to explain the orientation process more n this.


(Or rather, I understand your logic, but nobody reverses vertical inputs, only horizontal.)
Alright lets break it down for you. The game is in 3D.
1.When you switch sides, "up and down" which represents jumping and crouching (basically the Z axis) do not change for the SAME move.
2.Obviously the "forward/backward" which represents moving along the X axis gets reversed but the notations don't change for the SAME move (because things are in reference to 1p)
3.However, moving towards the screen and away from the screen which represents the QS (along the Y axis) but the notations don't change for the SAME move (because things are in reference to 1p) .
A good example of this is that nightmare's 22B is way more evasive than his 88B (as he rolls to his left quickly but only slightly to his right). If i were to switch to 2P, I would still call it 22B > 88B. However, I'm talking about moving towards the screen so I would say 88B for 1p or 22B for 2p.

Is this clear for you ?

While I suspected that this may have gotten confusing (hence referencing stepping towards the screen is best) I was hoping that it people would have been familiar with the notation used in the game thats been out for a month.
 

CarteBlanche

[09] Warrior
I tested it. Nightmare (whatever) against Pyrrha's 66B BE.
66B BE is a move that forces crouch and is followed by a vertical slash.
From either 1P or 2P, if you try to quickstep the second hit by moving towards the screen, you will succeed, but if you try to quickstep away from the screen, your character will just stand there and not even attempt to move.
Therefore, it seems that in a forced crouch situation you quickstep sooner if you do so towards the screen.

Simple, clear, no need for notations.
To me, it looks like another inconsistency failure from the developers, but it's a nice find.


By the way, the same thing happens with aPat 2B+K, Twister.
1P and 2P, you can quickstep the twister if you move towards the screen but it will fail if you move away from the screen.
JF twister is not necessary for this.



So maybe I'm not really mashing like I thought but the game is inconsistent and that is why I can't reach 100% execution rate? :o
I'm talking about stuff like complete WTF whiffs (those happen in tournament vids too), or being able to sidestep Tira's CE second half of hits even though the first half was a successful counter hit...
Some combos that should be valid and consistent are either acting weird or completely failing due to the position of the camera and the position on the stage, and it's even worse against Xiba and Leixia.