Raphael General Discussion

New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

I throw too much, I know. It works vs average/lesser players TOO WELL, and get's OWNED to well by higher competition. It's a bad habit I'm trying to break. Thanks for noticing.
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There is nothing wrong with throwing...throw is a solid move in this game...HOWEVER...what we were trying to point out is your propensity to step punish with a throw, which is not guaranteed damage.

throw is raph's best low
 
Raphael's kicks?

WR/WS(wtf ever you call it when you first let go of crouching) K is a fast high that will interrupt alot of moves as long as they don't TC. it's useful after a 2A because you can't 3K instantly.

Ruiner
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

The reason I think throwing = no good is beause throws are breakable. IMO if your hit by a throw its your fault you got hit. Also throwing online = win!!!!!
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

Throw is still a safe i17 low (in essence) which is a true 50 / 50, for solid damage. Does Raph have a faster, safer low that does 50 damage?

This is why I think PUNISHING with a throw is bad; however, using it offensively I think is solid, especially (at least as far as I know) throws are not recognizable to be broken on reaction (unlike tekken, for instance), and if a throw is broken, it is still safe.
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

Piggy's right.

2K/1A...that's all you use.........

This SOUNDS LIKE you're saying that on tournament level players can block/punish all of Raphael's lows on reaction. If this is true....I'm....proper ****ed.

Ruiner
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

I punnish any low I can block and punnish. With Cervy If I duck a throw, I can WR A for free and get into a 50/50 mixup game of doom.

Raph requires patience and planning. 3B is the best poking tool he has. Just becareful in the way its used. Your best bet is usally to stick his qucker safer moves and poke the crap out of em. Then if they do a high throw or something super punisable use 4B and combo.

Throws are still good, but I try to interupt with them after Ive hit a 2A on CH etc.

Tools i recomend

3B
3
3 Prep A
3 prep BB
3 B+K - this varreint is cool.
32 sea prep A (I swear 70% of everyone falls for this)(Mix in BB or KK JF)
FC 3B - dont follow up unless you want to tech trap.
22 VE A - VE A is a frame trap if the 2nd high is blocked
66A+B
3A
2A
K
4 use to punnish moves with horrible recovoery
2K
44B

The trick is to only rely on prep when your oppenent stops stepping off of your line (fencing term). If you can line up and stay that way with your oppenent, everything will generally hit etc. I recomend using prep very little until your oppenent is mixedup.

If you step someone try using 3B in place of the throw and see if they duck, some GI. It just depends.

Sorry I just thought Id post some random info to help out.
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

Okay now I went from Cervy slaughter to this guy, SkyRaizen....who's one of the better Amy's out there.......

How do we handle Amy as Raphael? NO ONE CAN ARGUE THE FACT THAT WE ARE SIMPLY OUT-CLASSED/TIER'D HERE, so....with that out of the way...what do we do?

6BBB/WR B is supposed to be highs, but everytime I tried good ol' 4B to TC this ****, I got owned.

Her frames are insane....3b simply get's outpoked(even after a block) by so much of her arsenal. Her RO game is solid, and this guy would mix up all her of tricks, 4B+K but instead of B follow up, throw. He'd cancel 234's into other combo's, 6BB then 3BA constantly throwing me off. Amy's A+B, A is cancelable WITHOUT a frame disadvantage......her forward moving sword swipe that makes you flip behind her, BT B+K, and the sword followup thing is a guaranteed combo that get's 60+ damage easy everytime......

It came to the point where I gave up on Raphael and went Voldo for the rest of our matches. Still lost...but faired alot better.

sigh.....

Ruiner
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

keep her out.

If you can predict 6B or 6BB etc use 4B

If she uses 66B, blcok then attack. If its the JF be catious use a mid if you can or use 2K.
3BA can be blocked low or jump B'ed. You get a 50/50 mixup on her if you block it.

33B is safe be careful.

If she uses 66A+B you can step to the left or you can block it and punnish it with 6BB or K i believe.
Keep your mixups simple; CH 2K 2K etc

3B the hell out of her as long as she is not stepping or walking.

WR B is going to be your best friend against any attack that puts you in crouch.

Try not to throw amy she can retaliate with WR B.

Her 66A is a frame trap. Her 1KA is a frame trap, but you can duck the high and punish her hard.
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

her forward moving sword swipe that makes you flip behind her
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66A+B

Amy is good...just like Cervy, it gets easier when you get more used to it. 6BB~236 stuff is all parlor tricks, really...just block and react to 2B+K (break throws...this may be harder online). DO NOT DUCK NEAR THE EDGE! 33B is too good.

Especially against people online use 1A / 2K (hit) WS B...most people will 6BB here, and you will CH them every time.

Also, use more 22B, most of her really solid moves are steppable (but beware of 2A cause that is really good).

Block 2B+K and 1A and you will be a lot better off.
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

2B+K is harder to block then it should be because whiled it's so close range, there's nothing Raphael really has point blank that's going to compete with Amy. Spacing is the best tool against her lows.

236 all parlor tricks...when people say this term about certain characters attacks, what exactly do they mean? That it's all just easily blocked? her 236 BBBB mix ups is the main one I don't see coming. I have a tendency to always try to stay on the offensive by GIing, sidestepping, and interrupting attacks. Besides the GIing here and there, I have a very hard time stepping/interrupting Amy...maybe because I shouldn't.

You mention alot of her good attacks can be stepped....I'm assuming it's like Raphael, step left>>>>step right.

will keep this info in mind, thanks guys.

Ruiner
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

Her 236 Atks are easy to block plus they put her at disadvantage. 236BBBB is super punnishabl

If you know what her most lethal attacks after 236 its easier to predict

6B - fastest atk, its high
1A
2B+K Both fast. You can punnish with 2A or 2K.
236 Throw
BB or 236BBBB

If you notice her lows in this instance are the fastest atk (next to 6B of course), she also has 66B/33B but that is a little slower and you should be able to react. If she starts doing fancy stuff interupt her. Predict and throw.
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

Ruiner - Regarding lows besides 1A/2K, they're either slow, punishable, inconsistent, or all of those. Even 1A and 2K aren't great but they work more often than not. I use most of his lows at some point or another but most of the time just the quick pokes. 1B I don't like to use because it does like 3 damage.
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

Its kinda strange but these video's I have up now already look so foreign. o_o....I've already improved my game.

Hopefully I'll post newer ones up soon, I simply don't have the equipment to record matches though, and I rely on 1 player right now that can(the same Yun-Sung dude).

6K vs Amy......I'm kinda iffy about this move....ONLY vs Amy.

It's an i17(I believe) TJ mid, It doesn't seem to string to well off many other moves, but it's useful as a spacing tool. Vs Amy however, she has so many options that it feels like it'll be interrupted even off block. I'll throw it in next time I see some Amy players.

...Another Tournament environment question: I actually don't see many Amy users online, but I hear there a dime a dozen in tournies(Like Cass, who you DO SEE online): hard truth?

Ruiner
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I still like CH 1BB, but I guess the 2nd B just too risky to throw it out there o_O....least it's not 3 damage Hudathan o_O.
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

I dunno...I use it a lot against tourney Amys (I haven't come across many tournament Amys that count...only one or two GOOD Amy players). It may be punishable by 6BB, but it is faster than 3B (if your amys use it) and it shuts down 6BB236 pretty well. Also, jumps 2A.
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

6K is 6BB punishable except at tip range. I can't quite gauge the max range, but I usually just use other options against Amy. 44B's aGI window and backstep works for me when I think a 1A or 2B+K will come out, or 7K to space back a bit.

I don't think Amy usage is dominant in tournaments, but like any other character just expect at least one. Heh, I think there was an Amy bandwagon early on, but it died down. I have two Amy players to deal with here, maybe a possible third...
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

Just added input...close range, A+B,A blocked is one of the best GI windows Raphael has...I can't count how many times in the last 3 days I've GI'd at this exact opportunity successfully. You'll scare the opponent into either stepping, slow/delayed attacking(smart players), or not even gaining any advantage(stupid players) to speak of, allowing Raphael to stay on the offense for JUST ALITTLE LONGER...which is something Raphael desperately needs.

Ruiner
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yeah in 1 day of playing SkyRaizen I'm doing better vs Amy and still working on finding the spots in her combo's where I should counter with 6BB. Even if it's high, it's really his only counter option to Amy....and Mitsu's elbow jab crap....

Thanks for the Amy advice.

Ruiner
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Okay new question.

Remember how Cervantes 1B is a big problem with prep...but you can VE it on reaction?

VOLDO'S 1B.......

Discuss this, because I don't want my prep game vs Voldo to be shut down by this move...

Ruiner
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

most lows>44B

lows dont seem to have alot of range in general even the really good lows like cervys 1A,amys 1A, and cervys 3AB all have low range so there easily punishable by 44B and extra insurance if you GI them

also

prep against voldo is fail because he has a movement/dodge to beat everything prep has

voldo land swimming>prep
 
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