Raphael Pre-Release General Discussion

Heaton

Heaton

A Soul in the Purgatory
Dope Discord here.

Well, it's really close to release, so not a lot of time to really try and analyze him, but he's looking like he's gonna be pretty fun to play so far. Let's discuss!
 
The video again:
[taken down, sorry]

Too much shit to talk about, but first, looks like ye olde B+K auto-evade is back for real this time? Oh my playing Raph might actually be fun again. Then again he went into the dodge without Cervantes doing an attack so maybe it's more like his manual evade in SC4? Hmm.

Other notes:
-New low looks somewhat invisible, like he's going into Prep
-New launcher looks like it's going to be a main tool, also goes into Prep
-236B can be performed straight from Prep?
-BBBB series has a new fourth hit that also has a just frame version according to the movelist
-B+G throw can go into Prep
-The old 4A+B from SC2 is back (the spinning hilt attack, probably not same motion but he definitely has the move back)
-Looks like he can do the old backswing blow attack from the Prep GI
-New WS BB? It looks like his old WS B with an extra stab afterward
-Something that looked like a new BB, but it's not BB (maybe from Prep? Or a new stance?)
-His Prep 2A+B from SC5 appears to be a normal move again (probably not a just frame this time)
-Think I saw his old FC 3A in there too. Dude got a lot of old moves back

EDIT: forgot B+G isn't a throw anymore it's RE. So RE can go into Prep
 
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going to be his new SC6 66A prob
weird the footnote doesn't mention tech-crouch properties
 
WuHT said:
going to be his new SC6 66A prob
weird the footnote doesn't mention tech-crouch properties
Click to expand...

Raph SCVI Changes

3A(Was Raph's 33_99A in SCV)
46A(Was Raph's SCII WS A+B)
JMP A(1st Half of Raph's 236AB)
Soul Charge JMP AB(2n Half of Raph's SCII & III 236AB only done in Soul Charge)
Soul Charge JMP A(B) ~ Preperation
B2 B(Was Raph's 11_77BB)
B4(Was Raph's SCV 1B)
6BB:B
3B(New Move)
3(B) ~ Preperation
1B(New Move)
1(B) ~ Preperation
Soul Charge 4BBB
236:B
1K(SCIV Version)
A+B(Was Raph's SCII 214B)
2A+B(Was Raph's SCII 4A+B)
Soul Charge 2A+BB
4A+BA(Was Raph's A+BA in SCV)
6B+K8(Was Raph's 8B+K)
6B+K2(Was Raph's 2B+K)
33_66_99A(Was Raph's SCIV Shadow Evade Alpha A)
22_88AA(SCIV Version)
22_88AA4 ~ Aerial Shift
22_88AB(SCIV Version)
66B(Was Raph's SCIV & V 3B)
11_44_77B(Was Raph's SCV Preperation A+B)
33_66_99K(Raph's 66K is the same/33_99K inputs added)
11_44_77K(SCIV Version)
33_66_99B+K(Was Raph's SCIV & V 66B)
Soul Charge A+G
Can RE Cancel into Aerial Shift
Can RE in Preperation
Can CE in Preperation & it becomes a Guard Break
Preperation AA(Was Raph's SCIV Pereperation A/New Ender)
Preperation AB(2nd Hit is the 2nd part of Raph's 6AB_Preperation AB from SCV)
Preperation 6A (Was Raph's SCV 66A)
Preperation BBA(New Ender)
Preperation BB:B
Soul Charge Preperation BBA+B
Preperation BK(2nd Hit was Raph's SCV 1K)
Preperation KK:B
Soul Charge Preperation 6KK(Was Raph's Preperation K(BE) in SCV)
Preperation B+K(Was Raph's 4B+K)
Aerial Shift K:K(Was Raph's Preperation K:K from SCIV)
4B+K = Quick Parade(Was Raph's SCIV 4A+B)
Quick Parade A(Was Raph's SCII 214A)
B+K(Was Raph's old SCII A+K/Sidesteps Verticals)
2B+K(Was Raph's old SCII B+K/Dodges Highs/Sidesteps Verticals)
 
Some thoughts:

His stiff neutral stance (unlike SC2 where he shuffles a bit) is disappointing to be returning. Its funny because they kept his crouching stance to be moving in SC5, and will probably be the same in SC6.

• One Prep stance so far but far more attack outputs out of it (instead of the default four non-directional inputs B, A, K and A+B historically). Ie, he has both his 6BBB and 236B variants available (underworld call and dread intrigue).

• Prep likely will again "automatically dodges highs", so the question is will it transition to his SE A animation (which we haven't seen yet) or SE B?

• Prep6 goes again into Prep. Will we finally have unlimited Prep ?

• I'm thinking his prepKK:B will be his SC5 1K~33KB animation. Guess you can no longer have 33KB but its part of an attack string.

• SE is back (SE B animation from SC4) and seems again to be only a secondary stance transition only available after Prep (no other command/stance directly gives you access). Looks like you can hold the SE stance once again.

• Aerial Stance (AS) looks to be a new stance akin to his SC2 Prep A. Animation wise it is probably our favourite SC5's prep4. No longer can you aGI mids, but it returns to aGI'ing lows (both vertical and horizontals). Other than prep, it seems like auto-evade B4, 6B4, wrBB4 and 22_88AB4 are the few ways you can enter it (I may be missing a couple).

• Gawd his attack-throw Cranial Scraper better be in there! If his AS B only launches I'm not going to be very happy. MAYBE its a soul charge only move, as an ender to SC'd 6BBBB.

• You can rotate between Prep and AS by alternating your inputs 4 and 6. I've seen a very quick shuffling between the stances in the vs Cervy video. If the aGI frames are early enough, it looks to be one possible counter to 2A attempts to stuff Prep.

• Quick Parade (his SC5 4A+B aGI) is now his 4B+K. Appears to aGI all mids (rather than only horizontal mids).

• 236B seems pretty underwhelming in damage. The LH description is very strange too. I'm now thinking that as long as Raphael blocks an opponent's attack and they're still recovering, he can score a LH. So only against <-20 on block moves and won't trigger LH on whiff punishes?

• I'm very curious to see what 214B will be

• Raphael has 46A, 46K, and 46B, and you can input 46 during prep stance to transition between prep and AS. This isn't really a command he's had before and will be interesting.

• He has 2 moves called heavy mandritti (our familiar 4A as well as AS AB). Neither of these inputs mention built in step or dodges verticals.. etc. Could be an oversight or the move is different now.

• Its not clear what the difference between his auto-evades are for B+K vs 4B+K because 4B+K only dodges mids
(didn't mention lows) while B+K dodges highs and mids. Also, it appears you only have 1 input being your B command. We've seen the vertical auto-evade against Cervy's CE, and the B followup on NH doesn't appear to give enough advantage to combo. Maybe on CH you're supposed to shift into AS and combo further. We have not seen his B+K succesfully dodging a high attack. I sort of miss the 2 hit string of dodging an attack, and hitting (B)~prepB to damage and knockdown.

• his "Howling Wolf" may now be his SC6 6A+B (wild guess). I'm guessing since the move has been MH for a while, and maybe the input actually makes Raphael side-step and do his 2 horizontal slashes all in 1 move (which I would prefer to be a stance with options rather than the opponent expecting the MH string for easy punish). Fury of the Loup-Garou makes me think of wolves, and so there's another possible tie-in.

• His Cantarella Needles better have been improved to actually be reliable on hard-reads.

• He has some very cool names: i) Rampage of the Queen Bee (SC'd prepBBA+B) and ii) Thousand Hornets SC'd A+G. He seems to be losing his bat, moon motifs and gains more emphasis on stinging, venom and wasps.

• his RE B animation is a lunging thrust that looks really cool

• We have no idea what (if any) unique perks in SC he gains

• His CE looks cool and forces a position swap. I don't like his facial expression during the close-up, but maybe its because its a phone-video thats too low res.

• He has a lot of options for getting into RE and exiting RE it appears. You can RE during prep, and it appears you can exit RE by going into AS and even prep. This better not be his only character gimmick tho.
 
WuHT said:
• Its not clear what the difference between his auto-evades are for B+K vs 2B+K because 2B+K only dodges mids
(didn't mention lows) while B+K dodges highs and mids. Also, it appears you only have 1 input being your B command. We've seen the vertical auto-evade against Cervy's CE, and the B followup on NH doesn't appear to give enough advantage to combo. Maybe on CH you're supposed to shift into AS and combo further. We have not seen his B+K succesfully dodging a high attack. I sort of miss the 2 hit string of dodging an attack, and hitting (B)~prepB to damage and knockdown.
Click to expand...

Aris discussed the differences between SCII A+K & B+K at 1:11:41


WuHT said:
• his "Howling Wolf" may now be his SC6 6A+B (wild guess). I'm guessing since the move has been MH for a while, and maybe the input actually makes Raphael side-step and do his 2 horizontal slashes all in 1 move (which I would prefer to be a stance with options rather than the opponent expecting the MH string for easy punish). Fury of the Loup-Garou makes me think of wolves, and so there's another possible tie-in.
Click to expand...

I think your right because Raph did it with out evade anything when Cervantes was crouching.

Here's a little comparison of the 2 moves.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1036370718777397248
 
Frayhua said:
Aris discussed the differences between SCII A+K & B+K at 1:11:41
Click to expand...
I don't understand why the SC2 breakdown between A+K and B+K would be relevant to the SC6 B+K vs 2B+K.

I appreciate that you linked the video with time stamp, but my point was that the movelist specifically didn't mention being able to dodge lows for his circular envelopment (which used to do so in SC2).

Its disgusting that in SC2, his evade (B)~B combo's 2nd hit kept whiffing on Sophitia. Just unpolished.
 
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The input would really seem to imply that 2B+K does evade lows. Perhaps only evading mids is a remnant of early development where it did evade lows and they decided that was too strong. Maybe it has a longer window?
 
Basic Bio information from the Japanese site is pulled from his SC2 biography. There isn't any real changes here. He has devoted his life to helping Amy, but makes no mention of chasing after Soul Edge. All other information including his fighting style and weapon are basically the same since SC2.

Perhaps ironically, his in-game model looks more like his SC3/4/5 self than his SC2, though his artwork does appear to draw him much younger what he looks like in SC3/4/5.
 
Windstar said:
Perhaps ironically, his in-game model looks more like his SC3/4/5 self than his SC2, though his artwork does appear to draw him much younger what he looks like in SC3/4/5.
Click to expand...
I'm of the view that they recycled the facial models from SC4/5 so thats not that surprising. There might be an exception (mitsurugi maybe)

some basic thoughts on the trailer/movelist:
• is his SC2-5 B+G animation only available during soul charge? Or a special super-ring out/wall splat combo-able version avaible instead as A+G (1000 hornets)

• Will 3B inherit ~+/- 0 frames on transition to prep like before ?

• I wonder how shitty prepKKB will be if you drop the JF combo attemp of prepKK:B. Will the 3rd hit do reduced damage or not even come out?

• 1(B)~prep sounds like a good way to bait a reaction into prep, and it looks - frames even on hit.

• Entering prep naturally gives you defense against highs (automatic + Shadow Evade) as well as lows (via prep4~shift aGI). Is the only answer to mids prepB+G? I'm hoping he has has a nonRE answer to mids other than trying to stuff it with prepBBB.

• Both prepAA and Shift AB are mid-mid. We'll have to see the range of these moves but it sounds good so far.

• the canterella needle animation clearly was a LH, but I don't see the orange LH symbol in the leaked command list under the canterella needles.

• Looks like the jump-thrust follow-up will be Raph's ring-out move.

• I don't like Raphael's RE animation (both parry and the followup vertical attack. Why is he raising his arms?

---
TGS gameplay

• His 22BB looks like a launcher (same as lost swords). Basically his SC5 22B into SC2 3B as a canned string

• shift AB looks like it'll have very good range, but I don't know if the opponent can step the B after blocking the A. Same as his SC2 PrepI AB
 
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Some more thoughts :

• 6BBB string animated looks like SC4 6B followed up the 2nd hit of SC5 6BB followed up by SC5 3B. In fact, the middle attack even looks just like a high version of SC5 3B, or is a new animation. I'm hoping it returns as i12 rather than i13.

• Soul Charge'd 6BBBB's last hit looks to be his SC4 44B animation (which is different from his SC3 214B and lost swords animation). The SC3 214 B was more of an overhead smash while SC4 44B Raph manages to keep his right hand on his waist and appears to flick his wrist more. His shiftB is his SC3 214B.

• AA looks to be SC5 6A followed up by the 2nd hit of his old AA. This was in the first TGS gameplay trailer where the player spammed BBB and likely AA.

• My guess: 6AA is animated to be like his SC5 22A followed up by his SC2 66A. This string was spammed against Azwel. His SC6 6AA and AA look to be decent, and 4A seems to crumple without any CH requirements. T

• His old B+G grab looks different from the Soul Charge'd version in the trailer. A lot more stabs in the soul charge version.

My god can Raph hold his RE/ ~prep animation for a long time. I'm so confused. He's advancing towards Azwel with his prep animation while white-parrying. In another video when he does his circular envelopment animation, he also has the white RE (but he follows up with his new 6BBB) Maybe there is very little recover with his B+K and 2B+K on whiff??
 
fuck yeah! his cranial scraper attack throw returns as his Soul charge 6BBBB. The way the clothes just explodes off the victim after a brief delay is hilarious
 
First of all, here's a great resource for some moveset clarity (credit to loukemia): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BQ2TGzMxN4EzzASlqeU7-PdUos01LcGs8NjTqxyXYtE/edit?usp=sharing

Random thoughts:
- Since Raph can RE out of Prep and cancel out of RE, it means he can essentially guard from Prep with a hard read and not have to commit to RE guessing games. So the main new mechanic of SC6 may have just become the most important thing in Raph's arsenal.
- On the flip side, it looks there's not much stopping people from holding RE on reaction since he has no GBs from Prep (it was GB that beats RE wasn't it? Or was that GI? Still getting caught up here) A counter-response may be performing a Shift but I don't know if that will create enough distance in time for a RE to whiff. It will probably depend on the character.
- Now that 3B is a real launcher, Raph's got actual JUGGLES again. Fucking finally. It looks like Shift B causes a ground stun in mid-combo, hopefully he's got more extenders like that. Please let 44K be one.
- Is it me or does 2A+B recover faster than it used to? In videos where it lands it looks like Raph has plenty of time to follow up with a combo
 
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