SCIV Ivy General Discussion & FAQ

I'm a lil perplexed on the 2B+K and would like to know as well (never thought to attempt it). I am aware that I can get WP 66A+B~SW6B8 in some circumstances. I'll get back to you on that later tonight. I doubt that the damage is guaranteed, it's probably like doing 2_3B+K after A+G where you're hoping they block it or take the hit.

As for iCS, it seems Ivy players are very divided in how and what they do for that move. Malek uses the dpad on a modded PS1 controller (know idea how he does it). Some people prefer the Analog on the xbox controller. I heavily encourage using a stick however.

I think if you go the pad route, the best idea may be to get that new xbox controller with the twist dpad. That way you have a dpad that doesnt suck and you can access the analogs for iCS really quickly, if not just use the dpad.

For CL 1BB+K there's 2 ways. Hold A prior to hitting 1B+K, EX: [A] 1BB+K. You need to hold it all the way past the B+K part. The other way is 1BA+B+K. So hit 1B then tap a button binded with A+B+K or A+B+K+G. You can also get fancy and force it to go into WP (which isn't a bad idea since it pushes back) by doing: CL 1BA+B+K~A+K if you used a binded button for A+B+K, or if you do the hold method CL [A] 1BB+[K].
 
I thought that CS or iCS was better with the pad most people are using analog ? and ty for the 1B+K tipps give me news about that 2B+K
 
Once again it's really preference. I can do it on dpad, analog, and stick and the way it is easiest for me is in this order:

Stick
Xbox Analog
PS3 Analog
PS3 dpad
XBOX dpad

I generally can't stand analog for other things and play a mix of analog and dpad for rotations vs taps. Most people will agree with my list with a fair debate between XBOX analog and stick. But it's whatever works. The pros all have different ways, it's not like 2D fighters where almost everyone agrees a stick is better, SC can be played on pad or stick with equal performance.

Once again check out the new twist dpad xbox controllers, that thing may be what you need.
 
Ok did the 2B+K...LOL I have done this before (like a million times), I thought you meant it combo'd in the video (it was laggy at work and couldn't watch it without choppiness). Ok it's quite simple, just do CL A+BA+K, WP 66A+B [B+K] hold till you see 2nd blue flash, SW 2B+K. What you're doing is right after you input do WP 66A+B, you start holding B+K and don't let go. When you see the second blue flash on your sword it means you're in sword mode and when you finish the move you have just enough time to let go and hit 2B+K. The timing is not strict, just remember to keep holding till you see the second blue flash DURING WP 66A+B's animation. Remember to not hold A during this. The second blue flash should occur just as the 3rd spike send them airborne if you're doing it right.

Ivy doesn't have to wait till move end to change stances, she can hit/hold B+K_A+K during a move and when it finishes it will be the new stance. There is a delay between each shift so you rarely have enough time to switch 2 stances in between one move. This will also explain that if you just switched into CL and did A+BA+K, you may not get the stun, because you didn't wait a brief moment for the cooldown when you started the A+K part and it comes out as normal A then shifts stance too late (because the cooldown finished). The timing for shifts beyond the cooldown has no restrictions on when in the move you do it. The only time you can't shift is while holding block(but you can in block stun if you let go) and laying on the ground (but you can when you start to rise)
 
I've just got SCIV, and have decided to main Ivy, simply because her weapon is far too awesome. Shallow yes, but it'll do for now.

I've lurked for a while, but I'm still struggling to find ways to approach the number of stances and the movesets which aren't quite as intuitive as those in melee (play competitively, so I do understand the concepts of spacing, punishability, frame traps etc).

Now, I've looked through the top ten move lists, but a lot of the knowledge regarding the moves seems to be assumed between people who have a clue what is going on.

As such, could someone give a brief run down on what use the various stances have (SW is seeming quite solid, if not as flashy) and key combo starters and punishers in each?

Thanks
 
Ivy has a lot of layers to learning her. General strategy is to pick a stance, and work it till you know it. SW is the most straight forward and solid learn this one first. Then go to CL then WP. I say this because WP is very unsafe and requires good zoning on and scenarios, that range comes with limitations.

For now ignore CS and SS. it's very tempting to want to tackle these moves. Generally once you learn these you go thru a phase depending on it and as you get more experienced you use them less and less because the opponents at high level will be looking for the set ups. They are valuable but in no need necessary to win or learn, but you will eventually want to master them.

You'll figure out SW pretty easily. With CL you have to be careful since it can form bad habits. 214B is very good for getting out of situations, but it's VERY unsafe and you NEVER want to use it on Setuska even on hit (combos being an exception since it bounces her on CH). With CL use 1BB+K to keep the opponent pushed out, it's very spammable. A major trick is to hit 1BA+B+K instead so you dont go into sword mode. the AA is your best punisher (-2 on 2nd normal hit so respect the disadvantage if you don't get counter hit! You can also opt for only A to get 0 frames instead.). 3A, A+B and AA are your best antisteps. With A+B be very careful. This move PWNS online but offline a good player can force the 3rd hit to whiff (A+BA+K) with certain characters and scenarios and punish you. A+B is your best combo and mix up engine. play mind games but completing A+BA+K or going A+B and do another move like grab, WR B, 2K, etc... If you step an opponent you can often hit with this. Also note Ivy's step is best in CL (one of the best in game). You want to always be step-guarding (look it up) in this stance. CL is one of her best stances since it's good at all ranges, but less obvious then SW.

With WP you really only wanna do it at range or when shifting during combos. 3A is her antistep and can stuff a lot of run ins. You're fishing for CHs with this for combos. 2B is a good move to safely push them out and covers decent range. K is your punish and get people off you option. 6B+K2_8 is amazing but tricky. You want to mix this up with anti steps and timing. Also occasionally only do 6B+K to throw them off trying to sneak in. You want to use this move to push people out, and build MASSIVE SG damage at range. It's vital the 1st part hits on block for SG and push. Learn the sideways pull, it bends awkwardly. the tail will go opposite. So at tip range yank it opposite the way they're walking, but every where else yank it toward them. 66B and 33B are very good on hit, so use those for you're damage. Above all things in this stance do not sit in it forever and RESPECT frame data. You need to use distance to make a lot of things safe, so always think of moves with good push if you plan to stay in it. If you can get 44A+B to get blocked you deal massive SG and will push them right back into safe 6B+K2_8 spam.

With Ivy range is a big factor. A move may look bad for damage or frames, but consider push back and SG. You can win matches simply by chipping at them at safe distanced and then get more aggressive in SW when they're worn down and blinking red. Range and combo flow will often determine your stance. A set like SW A~A+K, CL1BA+B+K, CL1BA+B+K~A+K, WP 6B+K2_8 does good SG and puts them all the way back (this is not a combo nor a block string. This is assuming they block and you do these when you have advantage or a moment of opportunity). Also consider the character ur facing. Against Raph I will not touch WP because he has such long punish range...I will however do more CL because he's steppable and I can get a lot of damage off of step, A+BA+K.
 
That was an epic post. Looks great though. One last question that has sprung up is how legitimately competitive is Ivy? From a few lists I have seen, she is drifting around the mid upper half of the cast, but is the game balanced enough that this is a non issue at the higher levels, or is it a major handicap?
 
Ivy is well within competitive tiers. There's only a few characters that are truly helpless and we've seen a lot of the lowers go VERY far in the right hands. Ivy on the other hand is argued B and A tier. She is VERY good, but takes a lot of work to master. She is one of the most complex characters to master since knowing why to change the stances plus the added move list makes it like learning 3 characters at once. Top Ivy players are highly feared in tournament scene. Her SG game is amazing, she spaces VERY well, and she does lots of damage. She's also got a wide variety of tools with her only faults being a little too linear and lacking of a lot of good lows.
 
teflon2105 said:
I figure too reach Ivy's full potential all her stances need to be used during the match. Every stance has great tools including SE from what i seen from other ivy's is most will stay in sw stance the whole match. I think this makes her easier too defend sw can be so predictable at times. Every stance complements one another CL for speed WP for range SW for CQC and SE for change up. I'll probably never have a traditional sw ivy because of switching stances so much.
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what does "CQC and SE" mean?
 
SE is serpent's embrace stance...CQC no idea. To be honest I wouldn't read into that post. There's a lot wrong with it. SE has terrible tools, not to say don't use it but it's use is incredibly limited. CL for speed? not to say it isn't fast but it's hardly the defining point of the stance.

Really SW is for pressure with both damage and SG damage at close range. It's also your fastest stance, so you have a lot of good punish and CH options. It lacks a lot of good antistep options and is vulnerable to a lot of zoning...however that can be compensated with good use of forward step+8wayrun attack or 1_2_3B+K.

CL is very balanced. has great combo potential, fair punishment options and very good Anti Step. It's also noted you can move and space far better in this stance. You have ways to push the opponent out, pull them in, and your step becomes amazing. This stance should almost be your primary due to the ability to easily switch stance, move, and zone.

WP is for range, but is also good for hail mary ROs. WR BB, 6AA, 22B, CH 33(B), 66K give her a lot of ways to RO from very long ranges and angles. It's also noted you can rack up a LOT of SG damage in this stance.

My general strategy is to sit in CL and push out to WP mode where I begin to chip away with zoning or build up SG damage. SW comes out when I'm on the defense or when my opponent is blinking red or neat it and I want to apply pressure till they CF or open their defense for normal damage to avoid it.

With Ivy try to play at distances that are bad for the opponent. Don't cling to a stance because you like it or you think you're good with it. If you're playing Talim think of only getting to WP mode and spacing her. You don't want to sit in SW mode and risk her jumping back and whiff punishing repeatedly. for Raph use CL a lot to exploit the side step and spacing options. There's a lot of ways to play her but often consider "how do i put my opponent in a position that hinders their options but not mine?". Play the stance and distance the other character doesnt want to.
 
Wow you guys never played metal gear solid!? CQC= Close Quaters Combat aka up close or hand to hand. Regardless Ivyfanboy gave you a good run down of how to use your stances.
 
Generally not a term used with fighters for various reasons. The proper term might be rushdown and face to face or simply...close. CQC doesn't translate here lol.
 
I feel this post is important to me, because I am the worst at staying in one stance for too long. I feel Ivy is most deadly if you utilize her step in both sword and coil, especially coil's back step. SW 6B~A+K is my favorite, I try to be in coil for as long as I can, but it's still not for long. WP is the beats for whiff punishing to me, and a spacing game is important to (A)6B+K 2/8 is really fun to do, until your opponent gets, in then I 3A or 3K, then get back into coil to start the spacing. I really don't see why she has sword, unless it's just for soul crushing the most, I generally stay away from sword, but I do like stepping and step punishing in sword.
All in all, Ivy has definately become more deadly, but I do miss her stance changes in SCII, they were fun. Let's keep Ivy going, yes?
 
IvyFanboy said:
SE is serpent's embrace stance...CQC no idea. To be honest I wouldn't read into that post. There's a lot wrong with it. SE has terrible tools, not to say don't use it but it's use is incredibly limited. CL for speed? not to say it isn't fast but it's hardly the defining point of the stance.

Really SW is for pressure with both damage and SG damage at close range. It's also your fastest stance, so you have a lot of good punish and CH options. It lacks a lot of good antistep options and is vulnerable to a lot of zoning...however that can be compensated with good use of forward step+8wayrun attack or 1_2_3B+K.

CL is very balanced. has great combo potential, fair punishment options and very good Anti Step. It's also noted you can move and space far better in this stance. You have ways to push the opponent out, pull them in, and your step becomes amazing. This stance should almost be your primary due to the ability to easily switch stance, move, and zone.

WP is for range, but is also good for hail mary ROs. WR BB, 6AA, 22B, CH 33(B), 66K give her a lot of ways to RO from very long ranges and angles. It's also noted you can rack up a LOT of SG damage in this stance.

My general strategy is to sit in CL and push out to WP mode where I begin to chip away with zoning or build up SG damage. SW comes out when I'm on the defense or when my opponent is blinking red or neat it and I want to apply pressure till they CF or open their defense for normal damage to avoid it.

With Ivy try to play at distances that are bad for the opponent. Don't cling to a stance because you like it or you think you're good with it. If you're playing Talim think of only getting to WP mode and spacing her. You don't want to sit in SW mode and risk her jumping back and whiff punishing repeatedly. for Raph use CL a lot to exploit the side step and spacing options. There's a lot of ways to play her but often consider "how do i put my opponent in a position that hinders their options but not mine?". Play the stance and distance the other character doesnt want to.
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I completely agree with your last paragraph IFB!
 
Swords got TONS of applications. Just because Ivy has a strong spacing game doesnt mean she cant play pressure and get serious damage out of SW stance. 1KB, 3B, FC 3B mix ups, iCS, A+B, 66A, 2A+K, 1_2_3B+K, 214K, 6B, AA, BB all validate the stance. This is probably her easiest stance to play and the quickest way to destroy their SG.

If you wan't to push out tho, do 6A instead of 6B. 6A~A+K will get you good push back on both hit and block. If you can also do 1_2_3B+K~A+K you can get a nice SG hit and push them back as well.
 
IvyFanboy said:
Swords got TONS of applications. Just because Ivy has a strong spacing game doesnt mean she cant play pressure and get serious damage out of SW stance. 1KB, 3B, FC 3B mix ups, iCS, A+B, 66A, 2A+K, 1_2_3B+K, 214K, 6B, AA, BB all validate the stance. This is probably her easiest stance to play and the quickest way to destroy their SG.

If you wan't to push out tho, do 6A instead of 6B. 6A~A+K will get you good push back on both hit and block. If you can also do 1_2_3B+K~A+K you can get a nice SG hit and push them back as well.
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I think SW 3B induces so much pressure, 3B~A+K is also good to start back stepping or 214 B is another favorite. I'm not a huge fan of SW though, I try to get in coil as much as possible, for the stepping issue I have. I have been downgrading for the past while in Ivy, I needa get my head in the game. Also why SW A+B I hate that move, not just because I play online, but it's punishable, I feel sword is her most vulnerable stance, and her side step sucks. I feel she is most punishable in SW, not WP because of her spacing qualities.
 
SW is her least vulnerable stance. It's the only stance with really solid frames. A lot of her moves lead into knockdowns as well to reset the pressure. The only real disadvantage to this stance is the limited anti-set options and vulnerability to moves that have a built in back step. The only real reason you don't want to be in this stance all the time is you have the option to zone and can fight safely till it becomes necessary to fight up close. When someone's in your face 1KB is a VERY powerful tool. It's actually very hard to punish her and while she doesn't have great anti-step, AA is very solid as well as 2A if they're in range. 66A is also not to be forgotten as it does very good SG damage and combos on CH. The stance is very good, but it does have a few bad characters matchups, but not many. I wont use it on Raph for example because your very vulnerable to the space he fights at, his side stepping attacks, and his back step attacks. I can counter though with 3B+K as it TC's a lot of his highs, catches backstep, and has perfect range for forced block


SW A+B is hard to punish for some characters and scenarios. If you're smart about using it at advantage and gauge the spacing and timing it becomes VERY hard to avoid and does massive damage and RO. You can release it early for non-UB and it's still pretty safe due to the push back and does good SG damage. It's also one of her best anti-wake up moves with a lot of set ups that make it unavoidable if they stand. Big trick is to use it at about 50-70% of it's range. It requires a double step and can't be back stepped. Doing it close is what get's you punished with a single step.
 
Hey quick question. I for some reason I couldn't find this searching other Ivy threads but I just want to be clear on something: Ivy's SW A+B,A+K (I think that's the notation for the 3 hit mid, low, ???). Is the last hit mid or high? In previous games the last hit was mid but I swear I heard someone say something about it being a high in SC4, wanted to confirm if that was true or not?
 
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