SCV Ivy FAQ & General Discussion

Hmm... in my experience, I've got pretty lucky in terms of getting my CS clean-hit. I do think that it's clean hit A rather than B.

I agree w/ the fact that Ivy seems to be limited still. She doesn't seem to have a fast, mid-hit horizontals that I can rely on. 3A being really close but I have it QS'd rather easily by my opponent quite a few times. :( If 3A tracks perfectly, I think it would boost Ivy's tier quite a bit.
 
Both CS and iCS have Clean Hit B rate. I think SS is still Clean Hit C, the upgrade is not very noticeable in this case.
 
All I'm going to say is, if they had SCIV CH WP 3a in SCV... That would change a lot of things about Ivy. If they do they do that... I will actually try to learn SCV ivy. No kidding.
 
I'd also be pretty darn happy if they gave Ivy some stances back, but I feel that wishing for a different character while I'm playing is just a bad mind-frame to be in, you know? The Ivy we've got now isn't bad at all, and we could really have it a lot worse. She's got enough tools to be able to build a game-plan or two and execute, so at this point it's about developing a style and learning which moves to use and when. Didn't she just get 2nd at Stunfest? I think that's good enough that us Ivy players can safely adopt a positive mind-set and work on getting better with the character without fear that our efforts will be "wasted" because she's not good enough.

On that topic, Ivy may not a have catch-all step-killer, but between 1A and 3[A] being so boss on CH, do you think we maybe have to tools to discourage stepping? That would help, right?
 
Linkrkc said:
CH 9B stun to kill back dash and spam says hi. =P As does an i16 3(A) that reliably tracks both sides.

Elaborate. I'm not sure the patch upgrades helped her as much as I thought they would, so I'm curious what you have to say.
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First of all, I reserve the right to be mistaken -- one man's opinion, especially against the top Ivy player right now lol.

I definitely give you the fact that CH 9B stun would be a godsend for SC5 Ivy. In fact, I'd say that SC4 Ivy as a character is vastly better than SC5 Ivy. HOWEVER, what I was trying to point out that SC4 Ivy wouldn't necessarily be top tier in SC5, just because she was top in 4. She could very well be theoretically, but the post patch is too young to say for sure.

Which brings me to the next point, why I think SC5 Ivy has potential to be top post patch. Next to the Pyrrah sisters, Ivy is up there as far as punish frames-to-damage ratio with 6B8K. What every Ivy, including myself, needs to do is find out every move that is 6B8K punishable. This move alone only needs to land 6-7 times to kill someone -- this means, Ivy can turtle effectively. (next to attacking, blocking is the next mathematically safest option, followed by movement in post patch)

With the nerf to movement, playing her (and anyone for that matter) takes on a different mindset. One can say that characters with moves that naturally move (NM stance, Mitsu 4B) without the need to actually backdash has an advantage. Others might say that advancing characters such as Patroklos with his 66B, throw or slide options off run has the potential to be god tier in this game (again, moving forward is the only 'safe' movement -- no CH, can cancel into block). Ivy has BOTH. She has 214B as her natural movement attack (negative on hit but relatively safe on block -- only Pyr can punish it effectively) and 66B/CS as her run forward/throw mixup. Of course, Ivy isn't as good on either as the characters mentioned above, but she can play offensively AND defensively relatively easier than the rest of the cast, all the while remaining safe.

Lastly, moves I think people are sleeping on is 1_2_3 B+K and 44B+KB. The first can be an effective spacing tool with moderate risk-reward, and 44B+KB is not only 90-100 damage on normal hit but also BREAKS in 5-6. I'm not going to explain it any further than that until I can actually prove victory with it. :)

All I'm saying is, post patch SC5 is a universe different than SC3/4. I found myself recently that I've been playing legacy SC4 and barely getting away with it. I think we need to change that mentality drastically. Right now, I'm hitting up the lab to see what moves and options I can revisit that other people might have overlooked.
 
44B+KB you can step the second hit on block and whiff punish Ivy for 100 dmg ;) While I agree her punishments are pretty strong, her best punishing tools have very limited range. The lack of SC4's 6K really hurts. Because of this, she is powerless against characters with big pushack on block, like Natsu. You can't punish almost anything.

You really think SC4 Ivy wouldn't necessarily be top tier in this game? She has tons of options to deal with step and backdash, with the nerfed movement I think it would be almost impossible to play against her. Not to mention the Soul Gauge pressure, you would get a guard gurst every round haha.
 
Playing SCV for a while really makes me miss the diverse movepools from SCIV, particularly Ivy's where the lack of stances really shows... or the lack of key moves like FC1B and a 2A with reach. Ivy's reach in general feels lacking now when Nightmare/Siegfried still wield those huge zweihanders like tennis rackets.
 
Ring said:
44B+KB you can step the second hit on block and whiff punish Ivy for 100 dmg ;) While I agree her punishments are pretty strong, her best punishing tools have very limited range. The lack of SC4's 6K really hurts. Because of this, she is powerless against characters with big pushack on block, like Natsu. You can't punish almost anything.

You really think SC4 Ivy wouldn't necessarily be top tier in this game? She has tons of options to deal with step and backdash, with the nerfed movement I think it would be almost impossible to play against her. Not to mention the Soul Gauge pressure, you would get a guard gurst every round haha.
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Even if you press B right after confirming the block (rather than waiting half a second)? I may have been testing incorrectly.

And Ring, you and Link could very well be correct that SC4 Ivy would be top. My point was more that to call X character with Y really good/broken move top tier in SC5 post patch may be premature, given that legacy SC3/4 knowledge is now a good deal obsolete. Using a different mindset of what's good/bad is perhaps necessary to really crack SC5 open. Even with what I said above, SC5 Ivy might end up bottom tier rather than top if someone finds out the new formula for really good characters/high level play. /shrugs

Maybe button mashing = win? Lol. :p
 
I didn't mean to continue the tired SC4 Ivy vs. SC5 Ivy debate. I was jokingly pointing out some strong moves that would be even stronger in this system. Please, let's all move on.

Sora, I basically just wanted insight into your view of the game for this reason:

Sora said:
Right now, I'm hitting up the lab to see what moves and options I can revisit that other people might have overlooked.
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A move/strategy that another player likes gives me something to experiment with. I appreciate the detailed answer.
 
Linkrkc said:
I didn't mean to continue the tired SC4 Ivy vs. SC5 Ivy debate. I was jokingly pointing out some strong moves that would be even stronger in this system. Please, let's all move on.

Sora, I basically just wanted insight into your view of the game for this reason:



A move/strategy that another player likes gives me something to experiment with. I appreciate the detailed answer.
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I've been having a lot of success with 66[A] as a closing move. Its got more range then 66B, and on hit its supposedly +10. I know on hit you're positive enough so that 3B is guaranteed if they do anything other then walk left or block.

I've also been abusing 3B a lot. Vs a lot of people's BB or 3B, or almost anything Raphael does, its pretty godlike.
 
Evan said:
I've been having a lot of success with 66[A] as a closing move. Its got more range then 66B, and on hit its supposedly +10. I know on hit you're positive enough so that 3B is guaranteed if they do anything other then walk left or block.

I've also been abusing 3B a lot. Vs a lot of people's BB or 3B, or almost anything Raphael does, its pretty godlike.
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There's two problems I have with 3B.

1. The tech-step is relatively shallow. Outside of normal sword weapons, 3B can't really step well. (i wouldn't dare throw out 3B against Sieg 3B, for example).

2. Outside of CH, it doesn't really net you anything against 90% of the cast. I see chars like Sieg, NM, Cervy and Leixia do a whole lot more with their 3B's.

The only application I see of 3B is in frametraps/pseudo-frame traps (slight disadvantage). Of course, I want to be proven wrong.
 
After every CH 4K I always go for 3A+B, B. Most people attempt to tech after the stun. I usually flow like this: fish for a 4B hit then go into 4K...the frames of the 4B and the TC of the 4K combined is so sweet...relatively safe too. In fact 4B sets up so many tricks its not even funny. 4B(hit) into 6KB...just try it, again its relatively safe.
 
Sora said:
There's two problems I have with 3B.


1. The tech-step is relatively shallow. Outside of normal sword weapons, 3B can't really step well. (i wouldn't dare throw out 3B against Sieg 3B, for example).

2. Outside of CH, it doesn't really net you anything against 90% of the cast. I see chars like Sieg, NM, Cervy and Leixia do a whole lot more with their 3B's.

The only application I see of 3B is in frametraps/pseudo-frame traps (slight disadvantage). Of course, I want to be proven wrong.
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That's what I was thinking too for a long time... until I found the right times to use it. Its great vs a lot of rush down.

Like Maxi's 4BB. Normally that move is uninteruptable, but you can get a 3B between the hits for a CH launch.

Also against most of Raphael's rushdown, just 3B between the strings and you'll get a launch.

Vs Mitsu's 66BB (I think that's the right notation) you can 3B between the two hits again for a CH launch.

Up close I like doing 3B, 3B. The opponent will often try to attack or move, and get CH launched.

Here are some matches I used 3B a lot in.
 
Sora's right, I very rarely use 3B anymore. It's not always a guaranteed CH and some characters can punish it.
 
I thought 3B it was only -10? What's a dangerous punish against that other than Apat's CE? Also, if you do 883B close up on 1P side, you will almost always get 6B8 after.
 
At -10 Natsu can punish up close with either A:6 or AA... but I think there might be enough push back to be safe.

I do know that once I started spamming 3B, I started winning a lot more.
 
I think people are overlooking the usefulness of sidestep-right, 3B. The bulk of Ivy's damage comes from this relatively safe launcher, and SSR almost guarantees the 80-ish damage combo. Plus, SSR will avoid the attacks that the tech step in 3B does not. It will also make for a better CS/mid mixup.
 
The problem I have with ssr 3B is that its a lot slower. I often use 3B in situations where I'm pressured so the sidestep just makes it slower.
I'm actually wondering if 3B is really -10. It doesn't really feel like it. I'll have to test it out. One reason I'm thinking this is because 3b, 3B wouldn't be terribly effective at -10, but I catch people with it a lot.

I was playing some more with 3B and I think its usefulness is really character dependent. Against Raphael, it kills a lot of his rush down, but nightmare can hit you out of the tech step pretty easily.
 
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