Setsuka Frame Traps?

Artilust

Artilust

[10] Knight
What are some? I really like the feeling of immense pressure she gives but sometimes I cant help but think my opponent is waiting for me to just stop, hence me eating a lot of CH.

The one ive been whoreing is 4K *guard* 6K CH stun.


Does she have anymore?
 
Sets doesn't have any moves with +frames on block, but after looking at the frame data a bit, I've decided I need more wsA in my game!

-2 on block, +8 on hit! Not bad for frame trapping fast moves.

I'm pretty sure that guy above me meant 2B+K (not 1) and this is great as well. Only -3 on block and leaves the opponent in FC which means most characters don't have access to their fastest moves.

4K is good as well (as was said) as it leaves you at -0 and Sets is faster than most of the cast.


So basically, start with one of these moves on block:

-4K
-2B+K
-wsA

And finish with your fast move of choice.

I'd recommend 6K since it's i14, gives an inescapable stun on CH, and it's only -14 on block. Punishable yes, but not too bad.
 
She may not have frame advantages.. I dont know. But 9 times outta 10 these all work, considering you have to account for human reaction.

And no.. none of my notation is wrong. Everything I have up there is what I meant.
*T R Y I T*
 
Hey all. I made a video on a frame trap I thought might be useful. Anyone wanna pick this video apart?

[youtube=Setsuka 66B Frame Trap Demo by A_Bad_Idea]SBiu8WLBHik[/youtube]

(copied from Youtube description)

Setsuka seems to gain a LOT of frames after 66B hits, but by omitting the A followup, you can see there is a vast damage potential, as well as a mindgame that you inflict on your opponent.

If your opponent remains standing, your best damage option is the 214B+G~2143a:B command throw combo, netting you a free 65~70 damage you wouldn't have gotten if you did the A followup instead. Against most characters, your throw will connect first even if they decide to try and attack you.

The throw followup will not work if your enemy chooses to TC (most likely, 2A), but you still have a few options available to you. Against most all characters, you can throw out a 6K and not only will it beat out their 2A, but it gives CH stun, so you can follow through with the staple. Setsuka's standard BB is another good option, especially if your opponent chooses to block, then you can frame trap them AGAIN with 2143a:B. Amazingly, 214B also works against 2A, even though it TCs for the first part. And if the enemy simply decides to try and FC without attacking, that's when you can hit them with a free SMF.

The main disadvantage of this frame trap is that the regular 66B is INCREDIBLY unsafe on block. It's not a move you can just toss out, because you might get punished HARD if blocked. So how to impliment this? There are two examples at 1:19 using the stun from 1B:B and the stun from CH 33B

I've also included a few examples of the 'trouble characters' that you might struggle to trap with this frame trap; namely, Taki and Amy. Taki's AA is faster than other characters, so the command throw won't go in. You'll notice at 1:50 that using 6K trades with Taki's AA, and it STILL puts her into the CH stun, with enough frames on you to continue the staple. Any TC moves also trap Taki's AA, like 214B. Amy provides a bigger problem with her 6B, as it is even FASTER than Taki's AA. 214B+G throw doesn't work, 6K doesn't work, even 214B (which SHOULD TC under the 6B) doesn't work without strict timing, and even then you won't get the CH stun. My best option was 2143A+B, since it puts her into a fallback stun on normal hit, which can be followed with a staple.
 
66B is nothing special really even when you mix up it with 66BA. It gives only +2 on hit/ch witch means that you made something wrong in first example because 15i A will never loose to her 214B+G_1B_4B, they will trade.
Also, Mitsu K is 14i and it will never loose to any 16i (it will trade) and it will not loose with 17i (214B+G etc) for sure.
2A is 14 so it will not loose with setska BB(16i), again it will trade.
6K will not trade with Taki AA

Also nobody will crouch after being hit with it. Not against setsuka. So I doubt you will be able to connect 66B B+K.

Still, its cool you made something like that, but you must change your options while testing because after that vid someone could be thinking that 66B gives +3, while in FD is written +2:P.

Also we must remember that ~0+4 are pretty small advantages, and opp can easily just backdash in some situations, and sidestep in most. +2 wont force opp to just stand and block:).
 
It's where you bait your opponent into attacking in a situation where you have the advantage and will hit them before they can hit you. It can be anything from 4A into 33B when the opponent tries to close to 2B+K into Umbrella since the forced crouch will give you advantage over most characters.
 
CheeseOfTheDay said:
66B is nothing special really even when you mix up it with 66BA. It gives only +2 on hit/ch witch means that you made something wrong in first example because 15i A will never loose to her 214B+G_1B_4B, they will trade.
Also, Mitsu K is 14i and it will never loose to any 16i (it will trade) and it will not loose with 17i (214B+G etc) for sure.
2A is 14 so it will not loose with setska BB(16i), again it will trade.
6K will not trade with Taki AA
Click to expand...

Huh, really? I better test that again, then. Thanks for letting me know, I'm not really booklearned on all of Setsuka's frames, so it's good to know I wasn't totally crazy when I thought this wasn't exactly pro material.

At the very least, most players might just stand there and block expecting the second A, which would net you that extra 70 damage throw anyway =P
 
you have it set on "action attack ___" Im pretty sure there is a slight delay when using that setting. Record a cpu setsuka doing 66B, followup and try to poke her out of it.
 
Hm, yeah I retried it and I couldn't land a single throw. 6K trades and gives CH on anyone except Taki or Amy though, so you could follow through with A+KB, Umbrella, though I guess anyone who gets hit with a single 66B will likely just try to block, so you could go for either 214B+G or A+G throw games.

I tried visually hit-confirming the 66B to see if I could react fast enough to do the A followup on block, but it seems unlikely, and I'll be eating on a ton of negative frames if 66B got blocked. I'll just opt to use the throw trap on a guaranteed 66B after 1B:B or CH 33B.
 
What about after 4A CH....4A CH,33B, 66B, Back throw???...seeing how 4A CH spins them around. I'm sure they could duck or maybe the 66B would spin them back around, but if they don't would it result in a back throw? I would test, but just got home from an AC/DC concert and I'm struggling to stay conscious. :)
 
That first frame trap should be 2B+K (guard), 44B+K. You should be inputting the 44 just as you see the block connect, and then she'll stab them before they get a chance to do anything.
 
Go for JF Umbrella in that trap instead. 44B+K is high and slower, not something you'd want to whore out when the opponent is in FC where a lot of moves are TC and i16~ish, even though 44B+K has some weird TC crushing properties. Keep in mind that both Umbrella and 44B+K are unsafe on block, so if you want to play it safe just step guard.

Use A+B post 2B+K if you are feeling adventurous.
 
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