Setsuka Matchups

Setsuka matchups

maybe because Setsuka has a lot of mids and Asura is gay? I'm not too sure myself and I haven't had much experience in this matchup.
 
Setsuka matchups

That can't be it ... that's ridiculous.

IMO, some people here are overestimating Kilik and lack of character knowledge to play against him.
Setsuka vs Kilik is just fine, and it's more adv. Sets than adv. Kilik.
 
Setsuka matchups

By all means Maxou.

Tell me why you say advantage Setsuka. I play this matchup a lot and I'm convinced but maybe I'm overlooking something.

Can't and won't comment till I hear your advantage reasons first to know where you're coming from.
 
Setsuka matchups

That call for a very long in-depth post, and I don't really have the time for it at the moment.

Let's just say for now :

- step G helps a LOT up close or at long range (up close you step left, while at long range you step right IIRC )
- Learn to "kill" stances. Hayate explained it very well in the match up or top tier thread. They'll still be useful but not free anymore.
- Asura is a move to be feared, but it is STILL a risky move. Good kilik won't abuse it randomly, but way more sparingly when they know it will hit, I personnally like to bait Asura. If I can block it, I can punish it or GI the second hit. Giing the second hit is particularly useful to learn, since it leads them to think of : do I make the second hit. I often caught my opponents successfully using Asura but stopped and didn't do the second hit because the bait was successful before.
- Learn to make him fear WS B. WS B is an awesome move in this match up since it has deceiptive range and kills some Kilik tools just fine.
- Learn to delay your moves, don't throw them randomly, more than often Kilik will try to make profit of his good evasive game, and you'll punish him for this.
- "Random" umbrellas can be usefull after Kilik hits you. It disturbs their pace, make them fear to throw not so fast moves (the danregous ones IMO with Kilik).
- Don't forget about your highs : A+K A (this one in particular), 4A (this one is peculiar), 214A,...
- 9K is a good tool btw in this match up.
- Step G up close / mid range and delaying mid range moves is a good way to deal with WS B and some other good vertical he has. Punish him accordingly.

Why do I say Kilik doesn't have the advantage in this match up?

Because of damage. His 4 main damage dealer are : Asura, WS B, FOTD, throws.

Asura can be avoided and the same with WS B. Of course, not completly but you get my point. As for FOTD and throws that's up to you.
 
Setsuka matchups

Maxou: Some insight on the Setsuka VS X matchup? I'm sure you know this one well. Here in Norcal, there aren't any hardcore X users, and I can say I don't know the matchup too well. I am looking to come prepared though in the event I do face a good X. What makes this match up 7-3 (as Kayane said) in Setsuka's favor and what are the things one should be careful of?
 
Setsuka matchups

Maxou said:
- step G helps a LOT up close or at long range (up close you step left, while at long range you step right IIRC )
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Yes, and it should be done because of 66B. God, I hate that move. It's not foolproof though.


- Learn to "kill" stances. Hayate explained it very well in the match up or top tier thread. They'll still be useful but not free anymore.
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On wakeup and post-GI which are the places to be used they are very useful. No way to kill them.


- Asura is a move to be feared, but it is STILL a risky move. Good kilik won't abuse it randomly, but way more sparingly when they know it will hit, I personnally like to bait Asura. If I can block it, I can punish it or GI the second hit. Giing the second hit is particularly useful to learn, since it leads them to think of : do I make the second hit. I often caught my opponents successfully using Asura but stopped and didn't do the second hit because the bait was successful before.
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Yeah, I know. But is still there as a control measure and it serves it's purpose. You have to think all the way in your mid usage against Kilik and G-cancel fake because of this move. My opponent uses it most of the time when he knows it has a chance to hit 'cause he knows it will be B+K punished if he misses. So, the real Asura use is for mid punishment in my case, not as an offensive tool. And it's still 69 pts with RO potential so it's something to consider.

- Learn to make him fear WS B. WS B is an awesome move in this match up since it has deceiptive range and kills some Kilik tools just fine.
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It is still Asura punishable but I will give it a try and see if it can work as a check like 33B.

- "Random" umbrellas can be usefull after Kilik hits you. It disturbs their pace, make them fear to throw not so fast moves (the danregous ones IMO with Kilik).
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Not even after Kilik hits you. Umbrella isn't useful in this match at all. Most of his checks and useful Kilik stuff are safe and on block Setsuka gets punished on reaction by A+B > 66B (add another if near walls) for 70-83 pts.

I repeat, Umbrella isn't useful in this matchup at all. Only in combos and that's it.

- Don't forget about your highs : A+K A (this one in particular), 4A (this one is peculiar), 214A,...
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4A gets punished on reaction by 4B but I use A+K A and 214A in the matchup, especially A+K A.

- 9K is a good tool btw in this match up.
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Agreed. I use it for 2A prevention and it isn't Asura punishable. Useful definitely. 44B+K as well.


Why do I say Kilik doesn't have the advantage in this match up?

Because of damage. His 4 main damage dealer are : Asura, WS B, FOTD, throws.

Asura can be avoided and the same with WS B. Of course, not completly but you get my point. As for FOTD and throws that's up to you.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Kilik has the advantage because his post-GI game is too damn strong, her throw game is negated because of WRB, Asura bothers Setsuka's mid and throw game, he can approach better than Setsuka can with his 66B and 2A > FC/WR deadly mixup that can earn him a win straight up or lots of damage and his safety doesn't give too much ground for punishment for Setsuka. And all his options on hit take quite a bit of damage, not to mention that Kilik has the clearcut advantage in RO stages like Raft, Seesaw and Labyrinth. All Setsuka can do is bait Asura and fish here and there for a CH. Hell, is so bad that he can chip SG damage with 66B, WSB and even GB Asura even if he gets punished for it.

Setsuka doesn't have it worse because she takes a lot of damage on her hits but make no mistake. This matchup is clearly an advantage for Kilik.
 
Setsuka matchups

Sorry for the long wait for the answer, didn't have that much time to answer.

Angrel-san :

If you get punished on reaction for doing 4A you're doing it wrong. Setsuka has one of the best defensive game in the whole game and I mean both active defense and passive defense. And 4A is a very good tool.
Umbrella is very usefull in this match up, as an exemple after a NH 66B it kills a lot of Kilik options. Of course to be used sparingly because you don't want to be blocked.

On wake up stance can be killed if you know what to look for. After a Gi it's still hard.
But Setsuka GI game is STRONG too. Very very strong (1B:B, 236~1B, 1AAA, B+K, 33B, 66A+B, etc...) . And if you know what to look for, you're supposed to have more GI opportunities than him (stances, slow moves, etc..).

EDIT : Especially because of Asura fear, you'll find yourself delaying some of your moves in order to prevent him from "random" Asura, making it all the harder to Gi you.

I'd like to see a vid of your Setsuka so I can compare.

Shenrei :

Setsuka vs X is clearly in favor of Setsuka.

SXS get killed heavily by Setsuka (4A on reaction - it is possible when you know what to look for - or A+B).
X isn't as damaging as she was in SC3 and she suffers a lot from it, besides, while she has good range pressing wise (FC 3B, 3A and WS A+B), she is out ranged too.
44B isn't as useful against Sets as it is against some other characters, because it can be punished heavily by Sets, Sets has the tool to deal naturally with it and she can counter it with some tools (don't really know how to explain it but, as an exemple, very often you'll see max range 11A eat a lot of X's options, including 44B, since it goes UNDER the move).
3A can now be blocked on reaction and it's punishable.
Max range bA works very well, same with 3A (goes under step~4K, Ch and tracks 8*B or 2*B).
66B+K can be used too (kinda hard sometime though but it CAN be used) if you encounter a step happy X (2*B or 8*B abuse or step), not as a move in itself but more as a spacing tool, it'll often whiff, and you'll create some spacing from her, gaining advantage.
Try to learn to punish her 3B and WS K with 44B+K it'll help you against her.
Forget about 1B:B and 214~3BB since she has very good autoGI (well only when you know they'll hit).


Still she has some good tools : 2*B is still very good, WS A+B is a good tool too, FC 3B is good, 66K is still a very good tool (her most dangerous move IMO). And you'll prefer to stay away from her. Be aware of her pressing game but I'll advice you not to duck even with fear of WS A+B (IIRC her WS A+B is +2 so a "random" JF umbrella afterwards will keep her cautious of what you can do.

4A is a very good tool if you know how to use it since it can be used as a spacing tool from her, getting CH if she is AA/ AAB happy, and make her fear to step.

But the adv. is still for Sets, since Sets kill her movelist so much.
Personnally I would have said it was 6 - 4 for Sets, but Kayane said it was 7 - 3, and Kayane is often to be trusted :). And you can't deny Setsuka has an heavy advantage in this match up. So I guess she's right.
 
Setsuka matchups

Hey, Maxou do you have some sets fights? There where always not many of them but now its like... nothing:P. It would be cool to see some:).
 
Setsuka matchups

Well i do have some Sets fights against Sophitia, but , it's BlackCat against me... and it means everything, all our matches are so close, it's like the first who made a mistake wins, we don't take ANY risks ... while it is effective competitive wise, it's often boring to see.

But the girl who was supposed to upload them told me the quality was so crap it was like unseeable :/ : we recorded the fights with a cam out of a (dunno the correct english word for it so I'll litterally translate it from french, I hope you'll understand, it means the image is on a paper screen against the wall) retroprojector and we didn't think about quality since it was so cool to see matches like that.

So wait for a little moment and I'll try to upload some of them with good quality.
 
Setsuka matchups

Cool:).

And it's good if those are with minimum risk, it will be educational for me because i take too much risk:P.
 
Setsuka matchups

I agree with Maxou: Sets' wsB is very useful against Kilik.

It may be her best move against him IMO.

That, 2A, and 33B :)
 
Setsuka matchups

hey everyone 1st post, can anyone give some solid advice against sophitia she seems to give me the most trouble.......does she even have a FLAW?
 
Setsuka matchups

Hey Asterisk.

I used to think about Sophitia the same way, but really the only thing to do is get used to fighting her. Over time you'll learn that her moves are pretty predictable, and you'll know when your opportunities to attack are. A good Sophie player will be able to mix it up, of course, but if you learn to recognize Sophy's moves, you'll eventually learn how to react to them.

Obviously the most dangerous thing to look out for is her 236B. She'll want to do it to punish any slow move you put out there, and punish you she will. The way I predict when she'll do it is to analyze myself as a player, and ask myself things like "If I fought myself, and I just saw myself do ____, would I try to punish it?". Once you have a good feel of that, you can start messing with her. I always like to bait her into doing 236B, then doing a GI to put pressure back on her (I only use her A+B aGI once I've GI'd once or twice). It's easy for Sophy to claim the flow of the battle, but all it takes to turn it around is to be one step ahead of her.
 
Setsuka matchups

Does anyone have any advice vs Asta? I spend most of my time stepping which befuddles most characters or at least forces them to rethink their gameplan, but it doesn't affect Asta at all and I could use some tips. I have a hard time finding a good range against him, as well as a hard time punishing things that I *think* should be punishable. Any tips would be great.
 
Setsuka matchups

As i remember i didn’t have problems with stepping asta at all, weird. But i cant give any tips i played vs him few times few months ago.
 
Setsuka matchups

When im fighting astro, I basically play defense/counter, on XBL there are alot of spammy astros so its really easy, also side step alot and don't forget astro isn't as fast as he can sometimes look, its easy to get caught up in the flow of a game that your are losing. if anyone has anything else to add please do so cause my way is the slow and cruddy way lol
 
Setsuka matchups

Against Asta, 4A setups can work well. Keep an eye out for that 6K and learn how to bait it - free AA punish or you can step to his left to avoid and punish. wsB works very well here, as it goes under his throws well, and hits outside of his throw range, along with some decent pushback on block. 4B and 33B are good as well. Watch out for bullrush near the edge or near a wall. 2A+B is great here too as there is nothing Asta can do about it. 4 is a frametrap so learn to discern the difference between that and 4B. Asta can also escape from Setsuka's A+G A+KB by teching correctly. Once they start to tech correctly, do A+G 11B A+KB Umbrella instead for giant damage.
 
Setsuka matchups

Hello all, new setsuka player here.. im in the process of learning her and had my rear handed to me all night by taki, she beat everything out at close range, the only way I could get momentum was from mid range. Is this just a bad match up for setsuka or am I just not fighting taki the right way.

granted im a bit new to soulcalibur all together.. so i dont have alot of experience fighting taki anyway. just wanted to check if there was a mindset I need to play to when fighting taki.. she's just too fast!
 
Setsuka matchups

Check out the second post I made in this thread. It should give you an idea of what to look for when you fight Taki. Long story short, this match should be in Setsuka's favor. High whiff punishment eats Taki alive. The risk for Taki doing highs is very high here, since 1BA, POK, POA are high. Train yourself to react to her hover on reaction, and shake those POK stuns. She can be intimidating, but if you know what to look for, the matchup isn't as bad as it seems.
 
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