Setsuka's Lounge

Setsuka Lounge

A few bruised thumbs later, I can actually pull off Silver Moon Fury with confidence, and I'm confident enough with Sakura Air Combo to at LEAST land the second JF, if not the whole triad.

Question being, how do I apply SMF in actual combat? I'm not sure which moves open up Sets for a full SMF, so I feel kind of silly just throwing it out at random just to see if I can do it. =O
 
Setsuka Lounge

Train your opponent to duck. Setsuka's best ways are either making them fearful of your throws or 1A: A: A.
 
Setsuka Lounge

Exactly as he said, Give them a reason to duck. Throws seem to be best with Setsuka in that aspect.(unless you are good at 1A : A : A )

Sidestepping attacks is the times You'll be most confident it'll hit...so that works.
The times I most often pull it off is because I rush forward for a "grab" and do the combo, and the occasional counter hit when i've backstepped an attack. It does have some decent range on it.

Also, you can 4K or 4A.
They both stun long enough to pull it off. However you can shake 4K.
I'm fairly certain you cannot shake 4A, though, don't quote me on that one...

If you're doing it online...very few people shake 4K.
But still, 4K is risky, use it wisely if you even do.
 
Setsuka Lounge

Not sure on this one but I think at max range, B+K doesn't allow for the rest of the attack to continue. Just something to keep in mind. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Yes, CH 4A cannot be shaken out of so B+K series is guaranteed.
 
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Shade_Buster said:
Not sure on this one but I think at max range, B+K doesn't allow for the rest of the attack to continue. Just something to keep in mind. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Yes, CH 4A cannot be shaken out of so B+K series is guaranteed.
Click to expand...

Dosnt work at max range, just confirmed. But only as far as you can possibly be it wont work...slightest step forward and all is good. Still decent range.
 
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I'm struggling to win with Setsuka again. I play with my brother, so I always at least have human competition around. The problem is that he's learned all my tricks and habits, and always has a way around it.

I'm starting to feel that Setsuka's game is REALLY limited. She's only got 4 good lows, none of which are usable as pressure tools (except :1::A:::A:::A:, but it's only useful if you can at least get the :1::A:::A:, otherwise you lose a LOT of frames even if you hit!), and having nearly every attack or tactic fall flat on its face is starting to feel painful. None of her lows are useful for chasing enemies on the floor, so there's no pressure in being sweeped; :2::K: and :2::A:+:B: can be easily rolled out of, and :1::1::A: doesn't even HIT off the floor, when there are several other similar sweeps in the game that DO hit. It doesn't really help that my brother plays Amy, who's FAR more versatile, easier to use, and has a stronger mixup game, not to mention auto-GIs that DESTROY Setsuka.

I'm also starting to feel that Setsuka has a LOUSY punishing game. It's hard to regain the advantage especially against rushdown characters like Amy and Cass who are just fast enough to get away with nearly ANY attack and be able to block an incoming punisher. Specifically I'm looking for a punishing move that hits low or mid, because I've been using :K: and :A::A: and those are no good against tech-crouching moves...which is a lot.

What exactly am I missing from my game? I don't even know what I'm supposed to be doing any more because the element of surprise is pretty much dead, and trying to make good use of her 'good' moves has just proven useless. I still can't pull JF Umbrellas out of no where, and I don't know if that'll affect my game in the slightest since it's a mid that he can just block or GI anyway.
 
Setsuka Lounge

A_Bad_Idea said:
I'm struggling to win with Setsuka again. I play with my brother, so I always at least have human competition around. The problem is that he's learned all my tricks and habits, and always has a way around it.
Click to expand...

I'd give some advice, But I'm going to cheer on Kura. :P
Though, if he knows all your moves...thats exactly how you win. When he expects something you always do...Don't do it. There are a lot of tricks that makes Setsuka's moves even harder to read/counter, and lock your opponent into a guessing game thats hard for you to lose.
Not being able to do JF umbrella should have no impact on your game, if not a very small impact.

"I'm also starting to feel that Setsuka has a LOUSY punishing game."
Against Amy...yes. More of her moves are safe against Setsuka then you might think, and that should already be a large ammount.
 
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It's far easier said than done. This is gonna turn into a VS Amy discussion, but even with delays or using different moves... it all feels like she can counter them the same ways. Any move that comes out is going to be A) a high/throw that Amy is fast enough to duck/tech crouch, B) a mid that Amy is fast enough to counter, or C) A low that is so slow and easy to see coming that ANYONE can duck/jump/punish them in time, and if they DON'T, they don't even give Setsuka enough frames to take the advantage back.

Amy is just relentless. There's never a window of opportunity to attack, and if there IS, she's just baiting you into one of her GI's that WILL work because of Setsuka's heavy reliance on mids. Even her :2::A: S-low counts as a mid for auto-GIs!

It used to be a fun matchup because there WAS still a guessing game involved between Amy and Setsuka parrying each other back and forth, but in the end Amy still has a much more powerful, much more varied, much BIGGER arsenal than Setsuka.
 
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A_Bad_Idea said:
A) a high/throw that Amy is fast enough to duck/tech crouch, B) a mid that Amy is fast enough to counter, or C) A low that is so slow and
Click to expand...

This isn't about Setsuka. Setsuka is amazing.
All of those things go for every other character, not just Amy.

You're saying this like hes Impenetrable. People dont tech every grab, counter every mid, and her lows are not that slow. 1AAA is amazing, and You should be happy if he starts to try and duck and block it.
Unless you're just being extremely extremely predictable, as you said you are in the above post. Mix it up, as easy said as done.

"Amy is fast enough to duck/tech crouch"
Did I miss something or does she duck quicker then other characters~

"Even her S-low counts as a mid"
Like i said, not about Setsuka.
Nearly every characters quick/safe pokes are S-low, and are 2A

Really if she's so amazing, just play her. This has come down to just whining.
 
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Part of the whole 'ducking' thing is that she has (or at least my brother uses) a lot of safe poking TCing moves (Amy 3A comes to mind).

I still can't help but feel it's easier to adapt with Amy than it is with Setsuka. I'll just play around some more until I can get some clear answers (and perhaps work on getting at least 1A:A every time).
 
Setsuka Lounge

Amy is MUCH simpler to use than Sets, and thus, it might seem like she has an impossibly good set of tools. Her tools ARE good, but not unbeatable.

Does your friend ever use 3B,A? Jump the A with 9B. Even if he stops at 3B, he can't interrupt the move and it's damn near neutral frames on block.

Use more mids in general since you seem to be getting tech crouched a lot. Just stick to B,B if you don't want to get fancy, but most of Sets' mids seem to be safe or close to it. Don't use throws except in certain situations where you've set up for the mixup between the throw and a mid.

As for lows, 1A:A:A is great, and if you just need some quick small damage, 2K is fast and leaves you in TC, and we all know how strong Sets' ws game is.
 
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what are setsukas best post GI options?

also, what setups do you guys use once you have the opponent on a flashing red SG?
 
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I don't GI often with Sets (I probably should), but if I ever consciously pulled one off, I might go for :4::K:, SMF.

I don't know a lot about Setsuka's Soul Crush game, and I think I've only ever CF'd once with her, but I think some good moves to use are :4::4::B::+::K:, :B::+::K: (without continuing), WR :B:, FC :3::A::+::B:, Umbrella, :3::3::B:, :bA:, and if you can ever get them stuck blocking, :6::6::A::+::B: gets people real paranoid. Now naturally they're going to start stepping because they can't afford to block your mids anymore, so you can put pressure on them with horizontals like :1::1::A:, :6::6::A:, :bA:, etc.
 
Setsuka Lounge

i currently mix up moves like 4b, aB, b+k when i anticipate a block after strings like aa, bb on hit. also mixed in with Gi's i can get them down to flashing red without too much trouble. my problem is once i get them to flashing red i tend to scrub up (even though right now im probs a scrub with sets!) and to stay back trying to hit the big SG moves.

right now ive been trying to stick to aggresive play once i get them to flashing red and rely on GI's and stuff like Ba on wake for the soul crush, but trying to find more reliable setups i can use to force them to block or eat sorta thing. 66a+b sounds useful though.

actually do you guy tend to keep pressure on the SG much anyway? its just that asta is my main and that sort of SG pressure mentality has rubbed off on me!
 
Setsuka Lounge

ojste said:
actually do you guy tend to keep pressure on the SG much anyway? its just that asta is my main and that sort of SG pressure mentality has rubbed off on me!
Click to expand...

since setsuka doesn't have a reliable, scary low, most setsuka players focus on making you block low, so you can eat the B+K series, and all of her powerful mids and combos.

but if you do happen to focus on the soul gauge, umbrella, B+K, bA, and 66A+B work well, but are totally unsafe if they get wise and try to punish you, so use them with caution.
 
Setsuka Lounge

3B and bA are also great for getting a CF. Safe and do tons of SG damage. Just make sure you space bA correctly.
 
Setsuka Lounge

Even spaced correctly, bA isn't completely "safe."

Just make sure you know what your opponent is capable of before throwing out that move.
 
Setsuka Lounge

No hitbox issues, it's just -23 on block if the frame data on CF.com is correct.

So long as the opponent can cover that distance in 23 frames, it doesn't matter how far away you hit it.
 
Similarities: SC Setsuka vs VF Akira

Setsuka is still my 'project' character in SC. Have gotten past the basics, at least, and can occasionally surprise the holy hell out of some online opponents even when my ass is up the creek. I'm an old man (37) and fail badly at superhuman dexterity stuff like JF's. For me, characters with versatile movesets like Ivy, or high-punishing movesets like Astaroth, or (best of both those worlds) Yoshimitsu suit me better when playing to win... I am working on Setsuka mainly to 'shake myself up' and force myself into a new mindset. Anyways...

Akira was never one of my 'mains' in VF. But as an old hand at VF (from day one in the arcades) I've fought against him a lot, and studied a lot of his videos, and even did branch out into him, for a time, if only to learn his limitations.

It has come to my mind, that an expert VF Akira player, that is coming over to SC, would do very well to pick up Setsuka. Some of my observations of how SC Setsuka and VF Akira are similar:

- Relatively small move list, and NO STANCES.

- Many moves seem similar at first in execution, but the devil is in the details of the moves' properties, both for combos and for turning defense back into offense.

- Short range (here, Setsuka has some tools for closing range that Akira lacks, but still, she operates best at close range I think most would agree, and besides, VF doesn't have the huge stages of SC)

- Low mobility... mobility is increased only during some advanced combos.

- Just Frames are extremely important to advance your game to Mid/Pro.

- Relatively high reliance on throws to maintain an ongoing offense.

- Poor poking game on defense, must rely on advanced interrupt/sabaki/guard impacts in defensive situations.

Here, I'm talking from mostly a Noobish viewpoint... I'm no Pro Player... but I would be really interested in hearing any of the Pro Player's output, on what i think I see, as the similarities of Setsuka and Akira in mindset... coming as I do from the VF community, which a lot of people regard as 'more hardcore' than the SC community, I'd like to be able to field arguments at VFDC as to why they might really want to give SC a chance.
 
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