Siegfried Combo and Tech Trap Discussion

[Pantocrator]

I posted something similar here (third section), but it does involve SCH 2*8B+K, which is definitely the better option because pirouettes are awesome. Not to mention SCH k(BE) catches all tech and launches for FLY HIGH shenanigans, and SCH B will still give you the two extra points of damage (albeit techable to left or right depending on your actions).

I'm assuming when you say 3(B) doesn't re-launch, you mean it gives you that weird "get hit but no knockdown whatsoever" property?

Yes, I know and used a lot 2B+K; and I guess I will still use it for Ring out or wall. But without this, I think that the slight step is a better option. The mix up 1K/3B will cover every options for extra damage without meter (Youhou !). But because the back roll is pretty risky for the opponent, most of the time it will be a free 1K.

Exactly for the 3B. The reason in that the stun of 66KBE and 3B max range are the same. In SCV it's not possible to have two time the same stun in a combo/tech trap.

 

[Heaton]

Found some stuff with Counter Hit 22kA2A (last hit). These assume that you're fairly close when you hit your opponent, like they blocked the first hit and got caught trying to interrupt the second hit.

CH 22kA2A Combo

• (6) ~ BB - 45 damage
• 2A+B - 45 damage
• 3B - 46 damage
• 33B - 48 damage
• CE - 91 damage

---

CH 22kA2A Tech Trap

• 6B+K ~ SRSH K - 50 damage (ALL)
• (6) ~ iFC A+G*B+G - 54 damage (ALL)
• 66B - 76 damage (FLB)
• B4 (latest input) - 87 damage (FLB)
• 22BB - 88 damage (FLB)
• 66A+B - 89 damage (FB)

A few notes. For tech traps, I just listed the basic option and not the full combo. For an idea of some absurd damage you can get on them for teching wrong once: CH 22kA2A ~ 22BB4 ~ SCH k(BE) ~ iagA gets you 143 damage minimum before Clean Hits. If you want to spend more meter, you can increase the damage even more.

Another more important note: run forward ~ flap jack is a good option because even if they don't tech, Siegfried yells at them to get up and flips them away. In other words, they can't punish you for this option by staying down and trying to block. Since it catches all techs, it's a good way to make people stay down for things that don't catch every tech.

 

[ChaosK]

I always wondered what are the frames after the ground pickup? I would assume we are at frame-advantage?

 

[Heaton]

I always wondered what are the frames after the ground pickup? I would assume we are at frame-advantage?

In the last game you were at +13 but couldn't get K - it was just 13 frames of safety, if you will. It's probably something like that now.

But do realize that the pick-up given to you after doing Flap Jack in this situation is not the ground pick-up. It's the ground flip-them-over-while-they-roll-along-on-the-ground, which leaves you at variable frame advantage depending on what they do. At the very least it always pushes them back a little bit.

 

[Twiz]

Snip

Nice find. :]
Just one question. Did you possibly try SBH B as a tech trap? Seems to me if you can get B4 out as a tech trap this may work as well. I just don't have a way to test it since my disc broke. :[

 

[Heaton]

Nice find. :]
Just one question. Did you possibly try SBH B as a tech trap? Seems to me if you can get B4 out as a tech trap this may work as well. I just don't have a way to test it since my disc broke. :[

B4 (latest input) is i34. I tested B+K ~ SBH k(BE), which is i36 combined, and that only caught front tech. B+K ~ SBH B is i50, so I'm pretty sure it won't catch anything.

 

[ChaosK]

I noticed that still a lot of sieg players don't seem to do a step after punishing with 66K BE before they hit with SCH B, so i thought i'll bring up its benefits.

66K BE~SCH B - 60 dmg
66K BE~2~SCH B - 62 dmg

So you at least get 2 dmg more, nothing great but why would you not use it?

However the juicy stuff starts when you manage to hit a specific timing on the step, in which case 1K is a combo:

66K BE~2~SCH B~1K - 71 dmg, tech traps FLR for 79 dmg

It is possible to also hit Back tech with the 1K but from my own experience this is just too impractical as the timing is almost impossible, so you will train your opponent to tech back, which opens up another tech trap:

66K BE~2~SCH B~3B - 93 dmg ( B tech)

The 3B will only techtrap if you manage to hit the same window, you would have needed for 1K to combo or else it will not connect.

Its worth noting that 3B wont launch against back techs, but it will launch against Front and Right:

66K BE~2~SCH B~3(B)~SCH K BE~iaga - 147 dmg
66K BE~2~SCH B~3(B)~SCH K BE~CE - 187 dmg

So yes people, use your steps, the worst thing you'll get is 2 extra dmg.
I am still not consistent with hitting the correct timing, so i would like to see more people using this tech, so that we can find a way to hit it consistently.

Hope it helps.

In the last game you were at +13 but couldn't get K - it was just 13 frames of safety, if you will. It's probably something like that now.

I experimented a little bit in p mode and it indeed should be +13. However, as you said, K does not connect but i believe thats because K hits at tip range, where it probably is only i14.

What are your favorite mixups after the pickup? Unfortunately the pushback is too big to do a basic mid/throw mixup.

 

[Solo]

Snip.

I do the step quite a bit. I only go for the 1K though, never thought of going for 3B.

 

[ChaosK]

I do the step quite a bit. I only go for the 1K though, never thought of going for 3B.

1K is generally a good idea because even if you miss the timing, it will still tech trap FLR.
However if the opponent knows you quite well, he will usually start back teching, 3B will discourage him from doing so.

Btw the properties of 3B are kinda weird in this scenario. Its basically like hitting with 3B on tip range but the opponent will not fall and only do a few stumbles backwards.

 

[Solo]

I just remembered to post this. I found it about a month ago but forgot to post.

SRSH B, 2(A+B), SBH kBE. (82)

It's a great alternative to doing the CE after SRSH B since all you're losing is 3 damage.

 

[ChaosK]

I never understood why people use SRSH B~CE anyhow. Seems like a big waste of meter for me, unless you are really desperate for the dmg.

And with people i mean EMP KDZ.

@Solo
SRSH B~44B~SBH K BE actually deals 1 dmg more for the same meter (83)
It also works better as a tech trap because you always get your extra dmg. 2A+B is superior against back tech though.
44B can be a little bit strict in terms of timing against right tech too.

Its also worth mentioning that 44B has a chance for clean hit, so i think its the better choice overall imho. (89 dmg with CH)

 

[Solo]

@Solo
SRSH B~44B~SBH K BE actually deals 1 dmg more for the same meter (83)
It also works better as a tech trap because you always get your extra dmg. 2A+B is superior against back tech though.
44B can be a little bit strict in terms of timing against right tech too.

Its also worth mentioning that 44B has a chance for clean hit, so i think its the better choice overall imho. (89 dmg with CH)

Whenever I get some time I might do some testing as to which option is better when.