Siegfried Matchup Discussion Thread

damn-I-Suck said:
How do you guys feel about the Sieg VS algol matchup? I can't put my finger on it, but it feels like at least a 5:5 if not slightly in sieg's favor.
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I feel the Algol vs. Siegfried MU is probably around 6-4 in Algol's favor, if not 7-3. It is true that Siegfried will want to play at a longer range than Algol and Algol does have his 4B+K to kill backsteps, but that is way to risky to throw out unless you're either absolutely sure or at a great enough distance to be safe (which is seldom against Sieg). The key to the MU for Algol is his 33B, which will beat every option out of Chief Hold, and needless to say you can opt for a 33B BE instead for RO or a beefy combo. This is crucial because it nearly eliminates Siegfried's 3B/WR B mixups, which is what I've seen Siegfrieds use often to create space.

Just my input.
 
MKHSpartan said:
33B can most likely be beaten by re-align SCH K/B.
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It will lose to realigning. However, at that point the mixup becomes more risky because if an Algol sniffs out a SCH B and steps it into a 44B he gets a half health, potentially full health, combo. But you are definitely right, 33B will lose to realigning.

11th_dimension said:
Are you sure 33B beats SCH A?
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33B has a TC that beautifully ducks the SCH A. I imagine if you delayed SCH A you could make it land.
 
Jdaco said:
It will lose to realigning. However, at that point the mixup becomes more risky because if an Algol sniffs out a SCH B and steps it into a 44B he gets a half health, potentially full health, combo. But you are definitely right, 33B will lose to realigning.
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Thats kinda true for every of siegs MU's though. Its generally a mixup between 8wr TC and big launcher for the opponent.
 
Well most characters get outright punished for their launchers. If Sieg's gets blocked, he's basically put in a 50/50 situation, and with a good read he could even steal some damage afterwards. Sure, the reverse mixup tends not to be in his favour but I can think of plenty of other things I'd complain about before his 3B :P
 
Yeah his 3B is good the way it is. Most chars 3B is between -13 to -16/-18 with guaranteed punishment. Siegs does generally not guarantee a punish but he puts himself at at least -20 for potentially much more dmg.

One cannot say one is better or worse than the other but i have to say i like how in siegs case it opens up so many mindgames, which you can usually use to your advantage. Its just not as good as some people tend to think (you cant treat it as simply -1 for instance).
 
ChaosK said:
Yeah his 3B is good the way it is. Most chars 3B is between -13 to -16/-18 with guaranteed punishment. Siegs does generally not guarantee a punish but he puts himself at at least -20 for potentially much more dmg.

One cannot say one is better or worse than the other but i have to say i like how in siegs case it opens up so many mindgames, which you can usually use to your advantage. Its just not as good as some people tend to think (you cant treat it as simply -1 for instance).
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honestly i would rather it have more damage on NH and CH, and much better tech crouch, than have it be mixup on block. 3B on block isnt normally a situation you want to be in anyways, though it gets evened out a little more once some meter is involved. but id take damage and increased functionality over safety any day.
 
I personally think siegfried with his current movelist wouldn't work if his 3B would be outright blockpunishable without any mindgames by everyone. I think its just too important in too many situations.

Btw i also dont think it can be considered safe. Lots of 3Bs only can be B6 punished for 24 dmg while against siegs 3B, if i guess right i get a launch for up to half life. I think you cant say one is safer than the other. Small guaranteed dmg or big potential dmg.
 
ChaosK said:
I personally think siegfried with his current movelist wouldn't work if his 3B would be outright blockpunishable without any mindgames by everyone. I think its just too important in too many situations.

Btw i also dont think it can be considered safe. Lots of 3Bs only can be B6 punished for 24 dmg while against siegs 3B, if i guess right i get a launch for up to half life. I think you cant say one is safer than the other. Small guaranteed dmg or big potential dmg.
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honestly i dont score most of my damage from 3B mixups. infact i rarely use 3B as a block pressure tool unless my opponent has no idea how to deal with it. as of now its a tool thats in the game that i'll use on occasion, but i would much rather prefer a launcher with some proper decent tech crouch properties over a launcher that is reverse mixup on block. and if spaced right it would still be safe anyways. the only reason i think 3B is even as important as it is in this game is due to the fact that siegfried had his movelist pretty much stripped down to the barebones.

and i think there are alot more important moves in his movelist besides 3B. particularily his pokes, which stop him from getting completely run over by rushdown, and allow him to maintain spacing. most of my 3B damage comes from whiff punishment and CH's anyways, with better TC but more risk i believe it would be more accessable, and would allow it to apply to an even wider number of situations, especially in certain matchups. i certainly dont believe it would limit its usefulness. besides that WR B is what we've got the reverse mixups for anyways. to make up for the greater safety, iWR B comes out 3 frames slower from standing. mind you iWR B has some great TC frames, but it makes sense seeing as the move originates from crouch anyways. but point is having access to a very powerful and solid TC move from standing with a speed even as fast as i18 could really benifit sieg, as alot of his other TC's are either slow, start too late, or have a crappy TC window.

but thats just my opinion. we might have to agree to disagree on this one.
 
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