Siegfried SCV Non-Gameplay Related Discussion

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Negative what though? SSH (A) is +1 XD
The only useful setup on a standing opponent, I find to be SCH(A)~6B+K mixed in with heavy use of SCHA. Post GI mixup is the only time you realistically have a 50:50 tbh =/
Online its always a 50:50, but not offline...

Wake up provides the frames you need to force the 50/50. Either option can become a left/right techtrap. On slower things like 44(B) on hit, teching literally GIVES you the 50/50 - they only have time to guard, not hit you or step you. If you're feeling ballsy, any guaranteed string can technically give you the forced mixup. CH 11(B), SCH kB, SCH 6B+K - even if they do an attack on wake up, you're going to beat it. SRSH basically is Siegfried's wake up stance. On the subject of the thread, give SRSH a quick move that hits grounded and tracks rollers, and Siegfried has an oki game.

Also, I'd say Post GI is one of the time you realistically don't - ever hit a GI and then try a slow move like B4, 44A, etc; only to be K'd or AA'd out of your string by a faster character? If they know you're going to try to bait a whiff they can pretty much just mash buttons.

Online's mixup isn't SRSH B_K, it's SRSH A+B_K.
 
Anyone who knows Sieg in that situation will stay down if they see the SRSH transition and rise for A+B. Teching immediately after 44B is a dumb idea except for after SRSH B to evade hit no. 2.
Sieg's problem is he has no unreactable move that would make you want to wake up.
As for post GI, note I said post GI mixup, to catch people bursting - mixup with a quick move, I recommend 3(B) or a+k(A) if you're execution is reasonably good and want frame advantage instead of damage. It is more effective at higher level because people try to burst on reaction to avoid whiffing it - then dying XD. They see 6B+K and if they're pressured, they think its an attack and burst - free SRSH hit.

Agreed - SRSH K should track both sides and hit grounded, he'd have a terrifying wakeup game - the only problem being that his wakeup damage potential from that stance would hands down outclass most character's wakeup and be thus overpowered, that's the issue =/
 

If you're using anything other than 1B post GI, you are playing Manfried wrong. :P

If people want to stay down that's they're prerogative. Siegfried can stay in the stance as long as he wants, and realigning with rollers is as simple as pressing 6. Also I've seen people try to tech left after 44(B) to avoid SBH B. SRSH B tracks left...hmm. As you said, yeah, it's reactable, but to what level? SRSH B_K is undisputedly unreactable, and if people anticipate SRSH A+B they'll probably tech away first and ask questions later. It's all about conditioning.

I don't think doing that would make it absolutely overpowered. If they decide to make him THE oki character then that can be his new gimmick. But they can get away with with not breaking him and still give him a ground hit. For example, give SRSH K different properties on grounded hit. Like it does reduced damage, doesn't stun, and pushes back. Siegfried gets damage, the opponent doesn't have to deal with 50/50 high damage mixups, everyone's happy. Kind of.

If you wanted to make it a bit more in Siegfried's favor, make SRSH K stun on grounded, a la Ivy SW 214K, which would give free SRSH A+B. But then people would complain. Then again we already have people who refer to themselves in third person complaining about what little we have now, so...maybe we should go for broken?
 
If you're using anything other than 1B post GI, you are playing Manfried wrong. :P

If people want to stay down that's they're prerogative. Siegfried can stay in the stance as long as he wants, and realigning with rollers is as simple as pressing 6. Also I've seen people try to tech left after 44(B) to avoid SBH B. SRSH B tracks left...hmm. As you said, yeah, it's reactable, but to what level? SRSH B_K is undisputedly unreactable, and if people anticipate SRSH A+B they'll probably tech away first and ask questions later. It's all about conditioning.

I don't think doing that would make it absolutely overpowered. If they decide to make him THE oki character then that can be his new gimmick. But they can get away with with not breaking him and still give him a ground hit. For example, give SRSH K different properties on grounded hit. Like it does reduced damage, doesn't stun, and pushes back. Siegfried gets damage, the opponent doesn't have to deal with 50/50 high damage mixups, everyone's happy. Kind of.

If you wanted to make it a bit more in Siegfried's favor, make SRSH K stun on grounded, a la Ivy SW 214K, which would give free SRSH A+B. But then people would complain. Then again we already have people who refer to themselves in third person complaining about what little we have now, so...maybe we should go for broken?
SRSHB 44BB is right tech, silly =P
As for 1B post GI - i tried it against dagGOTh and ate an 80 dmg punish Q_Q
 
WALL O' TEXT TYME!!!

well ivy SW 6{B} is a frame trap. yea u cant attack after it and u shouldnt, its +4 on grd. maybe if u wanna be risky i'd stry stepping it, but honestly i'd be watching how ur friends mixes it up to choose wheather to use a TC move after or duck to avoid CS, or whether hes just gonna hit u over and over again with a frame trap. plus 6{B} is stepable, with short range. not really that broke at all.

i agree that ivy does deal some really high damage #'s for her speed, but she also doesnt have many good frames on grd. she's got less good frames on grd than sieg actually, and she's much more difficult to play.

my only real complaint about her as a sieg user is the fact that she can space him very easily and he cant do fk all about it, unless he takes massive and needless risks, or continually front steps in which case her WP 6B+K2_8 will be more than happy to smack u with a CF.

as for sieg hitting harder i disagree. perhaps on a sinlge hit basis, his damage is slightly boosted for some attacks, but combo wise he could dole out the same half health damage combo's and traps in even more ways than he can in this game. plus he was alot better at punishing moves.

as for stuns, sieg has BARELY ANY non shakable stuns, and those which are not shakable are usually very difficult to hit with. his mixups are insane, but it requires an insane amount of poking and baiting b4 you can successfully get a mixup off unless u set it up off a frame trap, or take ridiculous risks.

as for his stances, some of them do indeed need to be faster. far too often does 2_8B+K get its TS caught by non tracking verticals. and stances do indeed need to be cancellable faster than they are. its pretty sad when i WR B @ -1, and throwing out SCH K after is actually more safe than cancelling and blocking because it prevents me from eating launcher punish.

also SSH definately needs a little more BS.

and dont even get me started on B+K ~ SBH and the 10+frame gap in the aGI sequence...

as for the minuses, yes sieg gets his damage from taking risks, but he also has alot of very advantages moves which some characters lack. infact i think agA is possibly 1 of the best horizontals in the game. check LGInfinites combo vid.

we're not asking for a godfried(or at least im not) but we're simply asking that his blatant flaws be fixed to give a more balanced character. especially with his whiffing issues.

if u look at my previous post, u'll note i seperate what i want into 2 catagories: needs for things that seriously need to be adressed in some manner, and desires, for what he would need to boost him up a tier. i in no way mention ways to unbalance the game, just simple upgrades to deal with some of the serious and sometimes unintentional flaws in his new design. this is especially true for his string issues like 4B. and lets not forget the fact that SRSH A is an i36 high attack(what the hell purpose does a high that slow serve again? its even risky at tip!) and the fact that not only is B2A punishable with no mixup whatsoever, but(and i quote a favorite line from jaxel)B2A4 is FREE MOVE LIST on block, as the move is -24(even moreso if u include the possible delay b4 the stance transition). the move being that negative effectively almost completely eliminates the usefulness of the techstep as well, since most verticals will re-track, making it possibly siegs most useless move. right up there with it is 3KKB, with no combo capabilities, and extremely unsafe and linear. but AT LEAST 3KKB has fear advantage. what does B2A got? BB, which is - on hit and punishable on block, not to mention 1 of his most linear moves.

as for 66KB, yes it was much better than then new KA, but it was indeed stepable to the right, all the same.

at least give him something to kill spacing with that isnt either linear or a 40 frame high. and online hes crippled even worse because his only semi-safe option for killing spacing is a lag tactic.

and with his shitty backstep he can barely backstep even easily backstepable mixups without an extremely well timed backstep ~ 4B+K. this is shown very clearly with things like taki's PO hover.

however nonetheless I respect your opinions and desires for a future siegfried. i am not trying to sound unwelcoming, as opinions are more than welcome, im simply applying my knowledge of siegfried to the situation. please do not take it personally as it is not intended to be. we will simply have to agree to disagree. ^_^
After reading this reply at first I was interested...then I kinda felt my brain floating into random space...then "This person is making a lot of sense" hit me in the head like a solid brick. I agree balance in SCIV is in need of improvement (in some cases MASSIVE improvement depending on the character. ex. Hilde, Amy, (broken overpowered characters.) and Mina (being a severely weakened character...at least in my opinion she might as well be fighting with one leg.) Anyway great post it was very insightful.
 
I think i should conduct a SRSH transition/oki/mixup study to see where the mixup is forced, where it is interruptable, where it is guaranteed, and where it is a tech trap...>_>

Go for it. I know for a fact that there are a lot of situations for each, but I can't specifically think of any on the spot.
 
I'd like to see a faster Siegfried. I'd also like an attack twice as fast as 6B and as strong as 236B.
 
A lot of people forget that 11A is actually more powerful than 1B post-GI. As for his wake-up, a non-buggy flapjack and a groundhitting WS B would go a long way to improve his current wake-up game (which in my opinion is already quite good).
 
Sieg.jpg


I love you too, Sieg!

Now, WHY DID YOU GET YOUR BUTT KICKED BY PAT AT THE END OF THIS http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/34412 ... AGAIN?
 
Another day of trailers, another day of Siegfried getting his ass kicked. I know they want to demo the new characters, but why can't they beat up Ivy or Mitsurugi? Oh well.
 

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Damn man, you ship Sieg x Hilde hard, Slayer, lol. You should have called yourself Shipper_X64. (jk, jk)
Then again you never know what SC5 will bring. Maybe something will happen in that improved story mode, lol.
 
He must hire me first... BUT

What Siegfried Schtauffen must do in order to get more popular:

  • 1st - Not letting anyone defeat the manliest man ever
  • 2nd - Show off more
  • 3rd - Be more brutal
  • 4th - No more friendly dummie for newcomers
  • 5th - Swear
  • 6th - Grow more beard (even though I don't like it, the way he has become now, more beard will make him look older and fiercer)
  • 7th - Show chest hair
 
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