Siegfried's Quick Back Spin Slash / agA's fastest input is irritating

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Slade said:
Both are legitimate questions seeing how SCIII is terrible and SCI is fun but broken.
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III is not terrible. Its my second favorite SC game. And teh only game Crispin Freeman ever got to voice Siegfried. Plus, III is still far better than IV.
 
CervNagasako97 said:
Actually, it is. Here's ALL the reasons why:
The startup of [A, A, B]'s 3rd hit is slower than in IV. Visor Crusher [4A] sucks. It has a slower startup than Piercing Hilt (SCIII,SSCIV,&SCBD's [4A]) and its animation makes you think it could dodge high attacks (by lowering his upper-back and head partly) when it really doesnt. It also has horrible connectivity compared to Piercing Hilt, not to mention the reaction it is always 'jawgrab~fall back to the ground'. And Geist Spinning Low Kick [Reverse Side Hold K] doesn't hit downed opp.s and Visor Crusher [4A] makes the opp. fall back quickly,SRSH K is forced to be a wakeup move, so if it misses, you're wise open, unless the offchance that the opp. happens to be dumb enough to attack with a Horizontal attack as you shift to base hold, and from what i've seen thus far..never happens. Also because of 4A's reaction hit, Geist Stroke [Reverse Side Hold B] is also forced to be a wakeup. In IV & III I always preferred to casually land in SRSH B by doing it from 4A(hold), since 4B+K~B leaves you open and you tend to get hit in that respect, CPU or not. Geist Slasher [Reverse Side Hold A] is not even Geist Slasher! Geist Slasher's animation from IV&BD is now Rebuff Turn Slash [66A].Its animation in V is clearly Right Slasher from SCI&II which btw Right Slasher is affixed to Nightmare's moveset in III,IV&BD, and V. Break Grounder [B, B, A] is easily avoidable with 8-Way Run and Flash Step. But if you had Buster Grounder [B, 2A] the second hit would land before they fully avoid it. Cannonball Lifter (Still a mistranslation of Full Swing Splitter) [While Rising B] doesn't hit downed opponent's like it could in SCI,II, and III. Head Toe Kick [4K, K] replaced IV's Triple Headbutt [4B, B, B] and Dark Toe Kick [6K], but unlike Dark Toe Kick, which got a very useful long stun-reaction as a counter hit, 4K, K does't get that, even if the second hit is a counter hit! Sky Splitter (3B) doesn't dodge high attacks at startup anymore, and its return time is longer in V, and also its shift to Chief Hold has a longer framerate than the SoulBlade-SCIV/BD animation. Kick Rush Vortex [During Chief Hold kA+B+K] replaced Knee Kick Stomper (which was a wonderful asset in IV), and wasn't at all worth it. Sure you can do some pretty good combos with it, but its damage out put is poor compared to Terror Stomper. In example, there's an expoitable glitch in V. If you do the combo 66kA+B+K(hold) ~ K ~ B. The opp. will stay in crouching position the entire time after the knee and not move, and the terror stomper will always connect, this is guaranteed against all CPU opp. but won't exactly work ag. players of course., which I exploited this ag. CPUs easily and if I was fighting a player opp. I would just do 66kA+B+K(hold) ~ B, which generally STILL does more damage than most of the combos that use SCH kA+B+K. Why do SCH kA+B+K which only does 32 DMG, when SCH B does 48? Reborn Strom [Base Hold A] is a pathetic excuse of a replacement of Reborn Slasher [SCIII&SCIV: SBH A]. Reborn Slasher could lead inot good ring outs as well as a great setup of wall combos. SBH A also acted as a more pathetic replacement for Landing Slasher [SCIII&SCIV: SBH A+B]. Landing Slasher dodges low attacks and sends opponents a distance away as well as covering a great range with its hit, and if you're fighting a much slower opp. you could even cancel the hit into Reverse Side Hold for a GSLK [SRSH K]~Fiend Shatter[SRSH A+B]. But what is Reborn Storm? It's just maelstrom during Base Hold with the first hit removed. Does it dodge low attacks? No. Does it dodge Mid attacks? Definitely not. Does it dodge high attacks? Yes, but so does Kaiser and Basher [SBH A & B]. But, Reborn Slasher can dodge high attacks still, that is, if you time it properly. Not to mention Reborn Slasher AND Landing Slasher both do more DMG than Reborn Storm! I hate the hell out of High Kick Beta [Side Hold K]! It is actually Phantom Toe Kick from SCI,II, and III [SCI&III: SSH K. SCII: SSH K and SRSH K]. And High Kick Beta's animation and reaction hits from IV were far more useful than V's one. In V High Kick Beta is a front kick that sends them away. IV?? It's a snap-roundhouse kick that, as a normal hit, toples them to Sieg's left, and if a wall is in that direction? Possible Wall Combo. End of stage to Sieg's left? Ring Out. And if it's a counter hit? they twist around for a guaranteed UNGUARDABLE 6K, B6, 1K, or even combo up with 66K, A, which also could lead into a follow up Stomping if the second hit of 66K,A makes the opp. hit the wall. High Kick Beta in V is about as useful as counter-hit Grief Side Kick/Darkside Kick [6K in V], the only difference? Less useful since if when it hits, the opp. hits the wall, you have less time to follow up since the return time after the move if longer than its SCIV animation (since his sword remains in the same position it's in during Side Hold, as opposed to High Kick Beta's IV animation where he holds it over his head as he kicks, making quicker return time after the move). Not to mention SSH K's animation looks better in IV than in V, plus hey doesn't Nightmare ALSO have Phantom Toe Kick and Right Slasher in V? I thought we were making Siegfried LESS of a Nightmare clone which was why they change Phantom Toe Kick to High Kick Beta in IV in the first place!
And Stomping [2K, K, K, K, K] is glitchy as fuck! What does it do when it connects in IV, III, I, and II? You are pushed closer little by little on each connecting hit. What about in V? it pushes you AWAY from your opp. on each hit! And how far back it pushes you is a bigger distance than how much it pushes you in per hit in IV! At most you only get what, one or two stomps? then the others miss and you are wide open? Pretty much. Charging Hilt [66kA+B+K] is a good asset in V when you are in a pinch but the only problem is, for both the XBOX360 AND PS3, there's a glitch that alot of times when you input it quickly, you will end up doing either Reverse Side Hold [6B+K] or Shoulder Charge [66K] (all even if you have A+B+K set to R1, L2, L1, or R2! (Or RB, LT, LB, or RT if you use the X360)), this applies to BOTH online and offline play.
And lets not forget how the always good moves like Illusion Edge getting its combos from IV screwed over by the new Flash Step mechanic. Flash Step was never that effective to begin with and as such also ruins good potential combos by preventing them from hitting properly, or even at all to begin with.
Remember good combos like 44A~11B(hold)~B. Or even Reborn Kaiser ~ Assault Slap/Memento Slap? They won't work in V! They'll miss every time! The only time Flash Step doesn't occur in a double-tap 8wayrun move, is when the direction is 44 or 66.
What could you do in V if Flash Step was never introduced? This:
44A~11B(hold)~SCH kA+B+K(hold)~3B(hold)
44A~11B(hold)~SCH kA+B+K(hold)~aga(fastest input)
44A~11B(hold)~SCH kA+B+K(hold)~88 or 22 B,B.
44A~11B(hold)~SCH kA+B+K(hold)~ (to wall) aga(fastest input) ~ 1B
SBH B~88 or 22 A.
And also, if you do 66kA+B+K(hold)~SCH kA+B+K ~ 22B,B, if you're fighting against a player or high-level CPU, 22B,B will always be guarded, because instead of being a downed hit, it is delayed by the flsh step to make it a wakeup. I want to see Flash Step gone, it is also the reason why Siegfried's moveset would be better if Flash Step never existed. And Siegfried doesn't need flash step! 2 and 8 B+K is JUST AS EFFICIENT!
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I usually don't read posts regarding movesets in 8WR, but when I do... holy shit
 
CervNagasako97 said:
I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
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lol

No, you don't. Bruh, Sieg is fine. His 3B and WR B are incredible moves (Maybe you should quit throwing it out in dick-lick range and at disadvantage and you'd stop getting hit out of it). His agA is not hard to do and is an incredible move and SCH k BE is fine because it gives like 80 damage off a 3B with ringouts and wall splats. Really, your complaints are excuses.

A perfect example is that you're using shit like AAB and BBA as an example. How could you win anything if you're throwing that shit out? Those moves are what we call "gimmicks". It's like throwing out 214A on Ivy over and over. No shit they're going to duck it and kill you for it.

Speaking of Ivy, CS is not hard to do. iCS is whatever but CS is not hard. The fact of the matter is they were just piss easy to do before. I mean, I could throw out SS and CS after like 4 minutes of practicing in SC2. I won't say anything about stances or anything but regardless as to how you feel about it she's perfectly fine in 5.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG story short; you're bad, not Siegfried or SCV. Stop using the game as an excuse for it.
 
fukou_da_man said:
lol

No, you don't. Bruh, Sieg is fine. His 3B and WR B are incredible moves (Maybe you should quit throwing it out in dick-lick range and at disadvantage and you'd stop getting hit out of it). His agA is not hard to do and is an incredible move and SCH k BE is fine because it gives like 80 damage off a 3B with ringouts and wall splats. Really, your complaints are excuses.

A perfect example is that you're using shit like AAB and BBA as an example. How could you win anything if you're throwing that shit out? Those moves are what we call "gimmicks". It's like throwing out 214A on Ivy over and over. No shit they're going to duck it and kill you for it.

Speaking of Ivy, CS is not hard to do. iCS is whatever but CS is not hard. The fact of the matter is they were just piss easy to do before. I mean, I could throw out SS and CS after like 4 minutes of practicing in SC2. I won't say anything about stances or anything but regardless as to how you feel about it she's perfectly fine in 5.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG story short; you're bad, not Siegfried or SCV. Stop using the game as an excuse for it.
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SAys the guy who never fought me and has no idea how i use Sieg by simple assumptions. And Just cuz its easy to dodge doesnt mean you won't ever get hit by it.
 
fukou_da_man said:
lol

No, you don't. Bruh, Sieg is fine. His 3B and WR B are incredible moves (Maybe you should quit throwing it out in dick-lick range and at disadvantage and you'd stop getting hit out of it). His agA is not hard to do and is an incredible move and SCH k BE is fine because it gives like 80 damage off a 3B with ringouts and wall splats. Really, your complaints are excuses.

A perfect example is that you're using shit like AAB and BBA as an example. How could you win anything if you're throwing that shit out? Those moves are what we call "gimmicks". It's like throwing out 214A on Ivy over and over. No shit they're going to duck it and kill you for it.

Speaking of Ivy, CS is not hard to do. iCS is whatever but CS is not hard. The fact of the matter is they were just piss easy to do before. I mean, I could throw out SS and CS after like 4 minutes of practicing in SC2. I won't say anything about stances or anything but regardless as to how you feel about it she's perfectly fine in 5.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG story short; you're bad, not Siegfried or SCV. Stop using the game as an excuse for it.
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also, Kick rush vortex IS shit. 66kA+B+K(hold)~SCH B does more DMG than 66kA+B+K(hold)~SCHkA+B+K.
 
CervNagasako97 said:
also, Kick rush vortex IS shit. 66kA+B+K(hold)~SCH B does more DMG than 66kA+B+K(hold)~SCHkA+B+K.
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The only reason you'd do that last combo is for ringouts or wallsplats. See, you don't even know what's going on around you. It's like you wandered out of the retirement home and forgot the bracelet with your address.
 
fukou_da_man said:
The only reason you'd do that last combo is for ringouts or wallsplats. See, you don't even know what's going on around you. It's like you wandered out of the retirement home and forgot the bracelet with your address.
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Again, taking assumptions and molding them as what you believe is the truth. Assumptions are not a viable here.
 
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