Siegfried's Quick Back Spin Slash / agA's fastest input is irritating

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CervNagasako97

[08] Mercenary
Ok so Siegfried's fastest input of agA has a better reaction hit than the regular agA. Ie.: sends the opp. towards the left, making them barrel roll into any nearby walls or barricades (ex.: B+K~B ~ agA (fastest input) ~ wall hit ~ 3A(hold) ~ A+B; You try this with regular agA you get no wall rush and the combo is ruined)

Whenever I try agA's fastest input I end up doing it too fast, giving me either :
Cancelling the A slash and does Hilt Impact (A+G)
or
Just cancels the A Slash, as if i didn't do the third input of agA.

I've noticed the move does the normal agA if the input is too slow, but does a throw or misreads the agA if its too fast.
I've tried doing it with sliding my middle finger across the A and G buttons quickly, then hit the L1 button (assigned as A+B). It will do the fastest input but more like a 7% chance of being fastest input.

So, how do you pull this off easier? I mean, his Rampart Buster (B4)'s fastest input is child's play (I get that one 100% of the time when I input, so much so I never get the normal B4 anymore), and I can get Cervantes' iGDR easier than iagA.
 

LockDownZ

[10] Knight
What's your PSN? I would love to play against good Siegs.

Also, I play NM and I believe iaGa has something to do with how fast you connect the G with the last a input.
 

CervNagasako97

[08] Mercenary
What's your PSN? I would love to play against good Siegs.

Also, I play NM and I believe iaGa has something to do with how fast you connect the G with the last a input.
Both my XBOX Live Gamertag AND PSN is Aelvir. I tend not to play Iv as much as i play Broken Destiny. they removed the CF System too early. it was PERFECT in Broken Destiny and should've changed the CF&Soul Gauge system to that in IV as a update or something.
 

CervNagasako97

[08] Mercenary
Besides it's not like I play the others if only 4 had better online play.
Sc3 needs an online version though
 

CervNagasako97

[08] Mercenary
It's not though
Actually, it is. Here's ALL the reasons why:
The startup of [A, A, B]'s 3rd hit is slower than in IV. Visor Crusher [4A] sucks. It has a slower startup than Piercing Hilt (SCIII,SSCIV,&SCBD's [4A]) and its animation makes you think it could dodge high attacks (by lowering his upper-back and head partly) when it really doesnt. It also has horrible connectivity compared to Piercing Hilt, not to mention the reaction it is always 'jawgrab~fall back to the ground'. And Geist Spinning Low Kick [Reverse Side Hold K] doesn't hit downed opp.s and Visor Crusher [4A] makes the opp. fall back quickly,SRSH K is forced to be a wakeup move, so if it misses, you're wise open, unless the offchance that the opp. happens to be dumb enough to attack with a Horizontal attack as you shift to base hold, and from what i've seen thus far..never happens. Also because of 4A's reaction hit, Geist Stroke [Reverse Side Hold B] is also forced to be a wakeup. In IV & III I always preferred to casually land in SRSH B by doing it from 4A(hold), since 4B+K~B leaves you open and you tend to get hit in that respect, CPU or not. Geist Slasher [Reverse Side Hold A] is not even Geist Slasher! Geist Slasher's animation from IV&BD is now Rebuff Turn Slash [66A].Its animation in V is clearly Right Slasher from SCI&II which btw Right Slasher is affixed to Nightmare's moveset in III,IV&BD, and V. Break Grounder [B, B, A] is easily avoidable with 8-Way Run and Flash Step. But if you had Buster Grounder [B, 2A] the second hit would land before they fully avoid it. Cannonball Lifter (Still a mistranslation of Full Swing Splitter) [While Rising B] doesn't hit downed opponent's like it could in SCI,II, and III. Head Toe Kick [4K, K] replaced IV's Triple Headbutt [4B, B, B] and Dark Toe Kick [6K], but unlike Dark Toe Kick, which got a very useful long stun-reaction as a counter hit, 4K, K does't get that, even if the second hit is a counter hit! Sky Splitter (3B) doesn't dodge high attacks at startup anymore, and its return time is longer in V, and also its shift to Chief Hold has a longer framerate than the SoulBlade-SCIV/BD animation. Kick Rush Vortex [During Chief Hold kA+B+K] replaced Knee Kick Stomper (which was a wonderful asset in IV), and wasn't at all worth it. Sure you can do some pretty good combos with it, but its damage out put is poor compared to Terror Stomper. In example, there's an expoitable glitch in V. If you do the combo 66kA+B+K(hold) ~ K ~ B. The opp. will stay in crouching position the entire time after the knee and not move, and the terror stomper will always connect, this is guaranteed against all CPU opp. but won't exactly work ag. players of course., which I exploited this ag. CPUs easily and if I was fighting a player opp. I would just do 66kA+B+K(hold) ~ B, which generally STILL does more damage than most of the combos that use SCH kA+B+K. Why do SCH kA+B+K which only does 32 DMG, when SCH B does 48? Reborn Strom [Base Hold A] is a pathetic excuse of a replacement of Reborn Slasher [SCIII&SCIV: SBH A]. Reborn Slasher could lead inot good ring outs as well as a great setup of wall combos. SBH A also acted as a more pathetic replacement for Landing Slasher [SCIII&SCIV: SBH A+B]. Landing Slasher dodges low attacks and sends opponents a distance away as well as covering a great range with its hit, and if you're fighting a much slower opp. you could even cancel the hit into Reverse Side Hold for a GSLK [SRSH K]~Fiend Shatter[SRSH A+B]. But what is Reborn Storm? It's just maelstrom during Base Hold with the first hit removed. Does it dodge low attacks? No. Does it dodge Mid attacks? Definitely not. Does it dodge high attacks? Yes, but so does Kaiser and Basher [SBH A & B]. But, Reborn Slasher can dodge high attacks still, that is, if you time it properly. Not to mention Reborn Slasher AND Landing Slasher both do more DMG than Reborn Storm! I hate the hell out of High Kick Beta [Side Hold K]! It is actually Phantom Toe Kick from SCI,II, and III [SCI&III: SSH K. SCII: SSH K and SRSH K]. And High Kick Beta's animation and reaction hits from IV were far more useful than V's one. In V High Kick Beta is a front kick that sends them away. IV?? It's a snap-roundhouse kick that, as a normal hit, toples them to Sieg's left, and if a wall is in that direction? Possible Wall Combo. End of stage to Sieg's left? Ring Out. And if it's a counter hit? they twist around for a guaranteed UNGUARDABLE 6K, B6, 1K, or even combo up with 66K, A, which also could lead into a follow up Stomping if the second hit of 66K,A makes the opp. hit the wall. High Kick Beta in V is about as useful as counter-hit Grief Side Kick/Darkside Kick [6K in V], the only difference? Less useful since if when it hits, the opp. hits the wall, you have less time to follow up since the return time after the move if longer than its SCIV animation (since his sword remains in the same position it's in during Side Hold, as opposed to High Kick Beta's IV animation where he holds it over his head as he kicks, making quicker return time after the move). Not to mention SSH K's animation looks better in IV than in V, plus hey doesn't Nightmare ALSO have Phantom Toe Kick and Right Slasher in V? I thought we were making Siegfried LESS of a Nightmare clone which was why they change Phantom Toe Kick to High Kick Beta in IV in the first place!
And Stomping [2K, K, K, K, K] is glitchy as fuck! What does it do when it connects in IV, III, I, and II? You are pushed closer little by little on each connecting hit. What about in V? it pushes you AWAY from your opp. on each hit! And how far back it pushes you is a bigger distance than how much it pushes you in per hit in IV! At most you only get what, one or two stomps? then the others miss and you are wide open? Pretty much. Charging Hilt [66kA+B+K] is a good asset in V when you are in a pinch but the only problem is, for both the XBOX360 AND PS3, there's a glitch that alot of times when you input it quickly, you will end up doing either Reverse Side Hold [6B+K] or Shoulder Charge [66K] (all even if you have A+B+K set to R1, L2, L1, or R2! (Or RB, LT, LB, or RT if you use the X360)), this applies to BOTH online and offline play.
And lets not forget how the always good moves like Illusion Edge getting its combos from IV screwed over by the new Flash Step mechanic. Flash Step was never that effective to begin with and as such also ruins good potential combos by preventing them from hitting properly, or even at all to begin with.
Remember good combos like 44A~11B(hold)~B. Or even Reborn Kaiser ~ Assault Slap/Memento Slap? They won't work in V! They'll miss every time! The only time Flash Step doesn't occur in a double-tap 8wayrun move, is when the direction is 44 or 66.
What could you do in V if Flash Step was never introduced? This:
44A~11B(hold)~SCH kA+B+K(hold)~3B(hold)
44A~11B(hold)~SCH kA+B+K(hold)~aga(fastest input)
44A~11B(hold)~SCH kA+B+K(hold)~88 or 22 B,B.
44A~11B(hold)~SCH kA+B+K(hold)~ (to wall) aga(fastest input) ~ 1B
SBH B~88 or 22 A.
And also, if you do 66kA+B+K(hold)~SCH kA+B+K ~ 22B,B, if you're fighting against a player or high-level CPU, 22B,B will always be guarded, because instead of being a downed hit, it is delayed by the flsh step to make it a wakeup. I want to see Flash Step gone, it is also the reason why Siegfried's moveset would be better if Flash Step never existed. And Siegfried doesn't need flash step! 2 and 8 B+K is JUST AS EFFICIENT!
 
oh boy

because it doesn't dodge high attacks in V duh. Sky Splitter was nerfed to hell.
Dude, 3B is absolutely ridiculous in SC5. It was buffed, not nerfed. And yes, it still tech crouches high attacks.

I'd love to read that wall of text you posted on why each and every move siegfried has and tell you why its wrong in just about every way, but I have other things to do. Maybe if it wasn't just one giant paragraph I'd be more interested.

Also, about aga:

Easiest way to do it is to map A+K (for SC4) to a shoulder button. I use R1. Then slide from a to G with your thumb and tap A+K with your index finger right after you release G.
 

fukou_da_man

[12] Conqueror
Actually, it is. Here's ALL the reasons why:
The startup of [A, A, B]'s 3rd hit is slower than in IV. Visor Crusher [4A] sucks. It has a slower startup than Piercing Hilt (SCIII,SSCIV,&SCBD's [4A]) and its animation makes you think it could dodge high attacks (by lowering his upper-back and head partly) when it really doesnt. It also has horrible connectivity compared to Piercing Hilt, not to mention the reaction it is always 'jawgrab~fall back to the ground'. And Geist Spinning Low Kick [Reverse Side Hold K] doesn't hit downed opp.s and Visor Crusher [4A] makes the opp. fall back quickly,SRSH K is forced to be a wakeup move, so if it misses, you're wise open, unless the offchance that the opp. happens to be dumb enough to attack with a Horizontal attack as you shift to base hold, and from what i've seen thus far..never happens. Also because of 4A's reaction hit, Geist Stroke [Reverse Side Hold B] is also forced to be a wakeup. In IV & III I always preferred to casually land in SRSH B by doing it from 4A(hold), since 4B+K~B leaves you open and you tend to get hit in that respect, CPU or not. Geist Slasher [Reverse Side Hold A] is not even Geist Slasher! Geist Slasher's animation from IV&BD is now Rebuff Turn Slash [66A].Its animation in V is clearly Right Slasher from SCI&II which btw Right Slasher is affixed to Nightmare's moveset in III,IV&BD, and V. Break Grounder [B, B, A] is easily avoidable with 8-Way Run and Flash Step. But if you had Buster Grounder [B, 2A] the second hit would land before they fully avoid it. Cannonball Lifter (Still a mistranslation of Full Swing Splitter) [While Rising B] doesn't hit downed opponent's like it could in SCI,II, and III. Head Toe Kick [4K, K] replaced IV's Triple Headbutt [4B, B, B] and Dark Toe Kick [6K], but unlike Dark Toe Kick, which got a very useful long stun-reaction as a counter hit, 4K, K does't get that, even if the second hit is a counter hit! Sky Splitter (3B) doesn't dodge high attacks at startup anymore, and its return time is longer in V, and also its shift to Chief Hold has a longer framerate than the SoulBlade-SCIV/BD animation. Kick Rush Vortex [During Chief Hold kA+B+K] replaced Knee Kick Stomper (which was a wonderful asset in IV), and wasn't at all worth it. Sure you can do some pretty good combos with it, but its damage out put is poor compared to Terror Stomper. In example, there's an expoitable glitch in V. If you do the combo 66kA+B+K(hold) ~ K ~ B. The opp. will stay in crouching position the entire time after the knee and not move, and the terror stomper will always connect, this is guaranteed against all CPU opp. but won't exactly work ag. players of course., which I exploited this ag. CPUs easily and if I was fighting a player opp. I would just do 66kA+B+K(hold) ~ B, which generally STILL does more damage than most of the combos that use SCH kA+B+K. Why do SCH kA+B+K which only does 32 DMG, when SCH B does 48? Reborn Strom [Base Hold A] is a pathetic excuse of a replacement of Reborn Slasher [SCIII&SCIV: SBH A]. Reborn Slasher could lead inot good ring outs as well as a great setup of wall combos. SBH A also acted as a more pathetic replacement for Landing Slasher [SCIII&SCIV: SBH A+B]. Landing Slasher dodges low attacks and sends opponents a distance away as well as covering a great range with its hit, and if you're fighting a much slower opp. you could even cancel the hit into Reverse Side Hold for a GSLK [SRSH K]~Fiend Shatter[SRSH A+B]. But what is Reborn Storm? It's just maelstrom during Base Hold with the first hit removed. Does it dodge low attacks? No. Does it dodge Mid attacks? Definitely not. Does it dodge high attacks? Yes, but so does Kaiser and Basher [SBH A & B]. But, Reborn Slasher can dodge high attacks still, that is, if you time it properly. Not to mention Reborn Slasher AND Landing Slasher both do more DMG than Reborn Storm! I hate the hell out of High Kick Beta [Side Hold K]! It is actually Phantom Toe Kick from SCI,II, and III [SCI&III: SSH K. SCII: SSH K and SRSH K]. And High Kick Beta's animation and reaction hits from IV were far more useful than V's one. In V High Kick Beta is a front kick that sends them away. IV?? It's a snap-roundhouse kick that, as a normal hit, toples them to Sieg's left, and if a wall is in that direction? Possible Wall Combo. End of stage to Sieg's left? Ring Out. And if it's a counter hit? they twist around for a guaranteed UNGUARDABLE 6K, B6, 1K, or even combo up with 66K, A, which also could lead into a follow up Stomping if the second hit of 66K,A makes the opp. hit the wall. High Kick Beta in V is about as useful as counter-hit Grief Side Kick/Darkside Kick [6K in V], the only difference? Less useful since if when it hits, the opp. hits the wall, you have less time to follow up since the return time after the move if longer than its SCIV animation (since his sword remains in the same position it's in during Side Hold, as opposed to High Kick Beta's IV animation where he holds it over his head as he kicks, making quicker return time after the move). Not to mention SSH K's animation looks better in IV than in V, plus hey doesn't Nightmare ALSO have Phantom Toe Kick and Right Slasher in V? I thought we were making Siegfried LESS of a Nightmare clone which was why they change Phantom Toe Kick to High Kick Beta in IV in the first place!
And Stomping [2K, K, K, K, K] is glitchy as fuck! What does it do when it connects in IV, III, I, and II? You are pushed closer little by little on each connecting hit. What about in V? it pushes you AWAY from your opp. on each hit! And how far back it pushes you is a bigger distance than how much it pushes you in per hit in IV! At most you only get what, one or two stomps? then the others miss and you are wide open? Pretty much. Charging Hilt [66kA+B+K] is a good asset in V when you are in a pinch but the only problem is, for both the XBOX360 AND PS3, there's a glitch that alot of times when you input it quickly, you will end up doing either Reverse Side Hold [6B+K] or Shoulder Charge [66K] (all even if you have A+B+K set to R1, L2, L1, or R2! (Or RB, LT, LB, or RT if you use the X360)), this applies to BOTH online and offline play.
And lets not forget how the always good moves like Illusion Edge getting its combos from IV screwed over by the new Flash Step mechanic. Flash Step was never that effective to begin with and as such also ruins good potential combos by preventing them from hitting properly, or even at all to begin with.
Remember good combos like 44A~11B(hold)~B. Or even Reborn Kaiser ~ Assault Slap/Memento Slap? They won't work in V! They'll miss every time! The only time Flash Step doesn't occur in a double-tap 8wayrun move, is when the direction is 44 or 66.
What could you do in V if Flash Step was never introduced? This:
44A~11B(hold)~SCH kA+B+K(hold)~3B(hold)
44A~11B(hold)~SCH kA+B+K(hold)~aga(fastest input)
44A~11B(hold)~SCH kA+B+K(hold)~88 or 22 B,B.
44A~11B(hold)~SCH kA+B+K(hold)~ (to wall) aga(fastest input) ~ 1B
SBH B~88 or 22 A.
And also, if you do 66kA+B+K(hold)~SCH kA+B+K ~ 22B,B, if you're fighting against a player or high-level CPU, 22B,B will always be guarded, because instead of being a downed hit, it is delayed by the flsh step to make it a wakeup. I want to see Flash Step gone, it is also the reason why Siegfried's moveset would be better if Flash Step never existed. And Siegfried doesn't need flash step! 2 and 8 B+K is JUST AS EFFICIENT!
What a fantastic post. I've never in my life seen some write so much just to say "I literally have no idea what I'm talking about". It's awe-inspiring.
 

CervNagasako97

[08] Mercenary
oh boy



Dude, 3B is absolutely ridiculous in SC5. It was buffed, not nerfed. And yes, it still tech crouches high attacks.

I'd love to read that wall of text you posted on why each and every move siegfried has and tell you why its wrong in just about every way, but I have other things to do. Maybe if it wasn't just one giant paragraph I'd be more interested.

Also, about aga:

Easiest way to do it is to map A+K (for SC4) to a shoulder button. I use R1. Then slide from a to G with your thumb and tap A+K with your index finger right after you release G.
No it doesn't the animation was changed to prevent it from doing so. I've had it cancelled by high attacks hudnreds of times on both Legendary Souls and Online Play. Difference between IV 3B, and V 3B in short:
IV:
Ducks at startup to dodge High attacks.
Quicker shift to Chief Hold than in V
Faster return time than in V(meaning 3B(CH)~3Bag. midair opp. can be done)
Covers more range than in V

V:
Doesn't duck at startup.
Slower shift to Chief Hold than in IV
Slower return time than in IV (meaning 3B(CH)~3Bag. midair opp. can be done)
Covers less range than in IV.
 

CervNagasako97

[08] Mercenary
What a fantastic post. I've never in my life seen some write so much just to say "I literally have no idea what I'm talking about". It's awe-inspiring.
I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Siegfried, Ivy, and many others were botched just to apply a stupid BraveEdge System. Hell, its hard enough to master Ivy's ridiculous input for Calamity Symphony in previous games, but in V lets make it a completely different input from what people JUST nailed down AND make it harder to do, not to mention remove all her States. Thats like removing Sieg's Stances.
 
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