Siegmare?

damn-I-Suck

[12] Conqueror
I thought I would create a thread for the Sieg/Night discussions.

So we are all speculating that Siegfried and nightmare are the same character again like it was in 2. Since his face appears underneath the helmet, it seems pretty obvious. Since this is a reboot there is even more reason to believe there's a Siegmare this time around.

After watching some gameplay footage of NM, His move set seems to be a mix of his sc3-onwards version and I noticed stances and moves from SC2 NM. I don't know why they chose this sort of mish-mash approach, Probably for practical reasons, wanted to make his move set more diverse and interesting.

In any case, I really want Siegfried to be distinct. Even if the story in this game doesn't allow it, At least we could get Sieg as a DLC later on. Thoughts?
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
Siegfried is literally Nightmare in SoulCalibur I-II. That's just fact. But Siegfried was a separate character in SoulCalibur I, since it contained story for before he became Nightmare as seen in SoulBlade. Siegfried has a distinct playstyle that is more tactical while Nightmare is far more aggressive. I take that Nightmare is drawing so much from later incarnations is more or less proof that Siegfried classic will be a thing. I'm not sure why anyone thinks otherwise.
 

damn-I-Suck

[12] Conqueror
From sc3-onwards, There was no trace of Sieg left in NM, his face was not underneath the helmet. In every game where they are distinct move sets, Sieg's face is absent from NM, with the exception of SC1. And once again this is a reboot. "im not sure why anyone thinks otherwise", there are plenty of good reasons.

NM's current move set mostly resembling sc3-onwards is in no way "proof" that they are distinct. This might have nothing to do with the story at all, maybe they just wanted those moves for gameplay's sake, I don't know.

Point is, nothing is 'proof' at this point. This is all theory
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
The point is that, if they were simply revisiting the Nightmare that was in SoulCalibur I, going purely by appearances, then his moveset would be much closer to that of Siegfried's, as the two were borderline clones in SoulCalibur I. For the sake of argument, if armor break was in SoulCalibur I, and you broke Nightmare's helmet, then you would see Siegfried's face. Siegfried was still in SoulCalibur I. But that they went for the SoulCalibur III-V moves to add to the style, that tells us that they are making Nightmare less like Siegfried intentionally. He still has some Siegfried in him, for sure, as well he should, as Siegfried is literally inside of him, so he inherited the Chief Hold and perhaps a few other things here and there. But this leaves Siegfried to actually just be Siegfried, without all the Nightmare-specific moves gained in SoulCalibur III-V. If the two were set to basically be clones, then that would be just cause to exclude Siegfried from the roster. As it is, it makes too much sense to also include Siegfried so we can have the two distinct playstyles. Proof may be too strong a word, but it's one of those at least 80% if not higher likely chances to appear. There are no doubts in my mind that we're getting Siegfried too.
 

minimaxi

[09] Warrior
my speculation is the story is going to cover multiple eras to incorporate fan favorites that appear much later like Tira. So there's a lot of wiggle room to include liberated siegfried that should fit right into SC3 timeline. It would be awesome too if NM is not siegfried in P2 costume if this is the case.
 

StSpider

[09] Warrior
IMO, at this point it's likely that Siegfried is not in the game as a separate character with his own moveset.

It would simply be weird to have him in the game when Nightmare is so clearly displayed as being Sigfried possesed. As far as the moveset goes, I don't see Nightmare's moveset being close to his SCV-IV-III version meaning much. If anything, the fact that part of his SCII seems integrated in the kit leads to me to believe once more that Siegried won't be in it.

If the game does well, he might be a DLC character tho.
 

Leinahtan

[10] Knight
The real important question is the play style. Nightmare in SC2 split into two very different characters with the start of SC3. Siegfried took the "4" stances nightmare in SC2 and further developed them, developing a locking style built around keeping the opponent at a distance. Nightmare on the other hand kept only one stance and developed an active momentum stance, known as grim stride. This style was a temporary, non lock style that could be activate with a QCF or holding forward after certain inputs.

The nightmare I see seems to be a mix of Siegfried and Nightmare that were split apart. He has the Chief Hold again, but also has the Grim Stride. I haven't seen what other stances he has, but if he has 1-2 others, I would wager that Siegfried won't be playable since they are merely merging the two playstyles into one again for a more in depth character.

I would wager that Siegfried would become a DLC character down the road at this point should the new Nightmare's style not cover the lock dance style Sieg Mains have mastered.
 

Ukkesh

[09] Warrior
Can't see PS missing out a character like Sieg, if he is not part of the starting roster, he'd likely be DLC or maybe a bonus character (unlockable or something?), because that would cause most Sieg players to go crazy. Plus removing such an iconic character would probably cause a backlash on the game. I'd say Sieg is probably going to be a bonus character, like Algol in SCV, for example.
 

Leinahtan

[10] Knight
Can't see PS missing out a character like Sieg, if he is not part of the starting roster, he'd likely be DLC or maybe a bonus character (unlockable or something?), because that would cause most Sieg players to go crazy. Plus removing such an iconic character would probably cause a backlash on the game. I'd say Sieg is probably going to be a bonus character, like Algol in SCV, for example.
I played a lot of Siegfried on SC3/4/5 and have developed a weird dervish spin style with his stances. I am more interested in whether that play style will be preserved within Nightmare should Sieg be gone than whether Sieg, as a character, is in the game or not.
 

Ukkesh

[09] Warrior
I played a lot of Siegfried on SC3/4/5 and have developed a weird dervish spin style with his stances. I am more interested in whether that play style will be preserved within Nightmare should Sieg be gone than whether Sieg, as a character, is in the game or not.
Yeah, I tend to use his stances a lot. I'm also interested in the play style, but i'm wondering if PS will just keep Siegmare and use Sieg as just a character that has no real plot significance, while Siegmare is the true sieg. I kinda just want them to keep the style.
 

StSpider

[09] Warrior
Night side stance is in from clips, which was also in SCV at least. I wouldn't mind if all we got - moveset wise - was a fusion of SCV Nightmare with SCII Nightmare, which looks pretty much like what we're getting. 3 stances are enough for me. I'm also ok for Sieg to be in as an alternate costume alone. TO be honest I could never grow fond of Sieg's playstyle after SCIII.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
It does look as if that is exactly what we're getting, SoulCalibur V Nightmare x SoulCalibur II Nightmare. And that's great, take the best of the new and the best of the old and fuse it together to make an amazing character. But the exact same thing can be done for Siegfried, take everything he's gained up to and including SoulCalibur V and mix it with his SoulCalibur I appearance without Nightmare's influence, and you've still got two distinct characters.
 

Discoprophet

[09] Warrior
From the gameplay elements we have scene so far this version of Nightmare looks like he will be very fun to play, and since he has some elements of SCIII-V Siegfried's playstyle I'll be ok if Siegfried is not a separate character. It's also pretty awesome that when the armor breaks he looks like 2p Nightmare from SC2.

That being said I do hope Siegfried is a distinct character at launch, and there is plenty of room in the story for him to be.
 

StSpider

[09] Warrior
But the exact same thing can be done for Siegfried, take everything he's gained up to and including SoulCalibur V and mix it with his SoulCalibur I appearance without Nightmare's influence, and you've still got two distinct characters.
To be clear I'd love for Sieg to be in, it's just that I can live without him if he ain't. If he is included I just hope they make his stance switching more fluid and tweak his moveset a bit, I could never get used to it after they split Nightmare and Siegfried.
 

LordRaptor

[05] Battler
It does look as if that is exactly what we're getting, SoulCalibur V Nightmare x SoulCalibur II Nightmare. And that's great, take the best of the new and the best of the old and fuse it together to make an amazing character. But the exact same thing can be done for Siegfried, take everything he's gained up to and including SoulCalibur V and mix it with his SoulCalibur I appearance without Nightmare's influence, and you've still got two distinct characters.
That's exactly what I was thinking, they sort of mixed these two versions together, well, more like 80% SCV's pure Nightmare and 20% SC2's Siegmare since he only got maybe 2-3 moves and 2 stances from Siegmare, which to me is a confirmation that they are not going to get rid of Siegfried, since they didn't go full Siegmare instead, which would've been interesting and cool, but obviously not the popular choice, I still see them keeping Siegfried with or without rebooting SC1-3 all together.
 

damn-I-Suck

[12] Conqueror
Either way I will be happy. I am interested in a move set that combines a few stances from Sieg into NM, but I would still prefer 2 different move sets. I agree with other people, getting rid of such an important character would anger lots of people, but this is SC were talking about we should all be ready for characters to get axed.
 

Wander

[09] Warrior
I can confirm that there will be a regular Siegfried because Okubo is a friend of mine and I've told him that I would boycott the game if Siegfried wasn't in it and he said "no worries, I got your back mate", except he obviously said that in Japanese.

Also Soul Calibur without Sieg 3B isn't a Soul Calibur game, so don't be silly folks.
 

minimaxi

[09] Warrior
I can confirm that there will be a regular Siegfried because Okubo is a friend of mine and I've told him that I would boycott the game if Siegfried wasn't in it and he said "no worries, I got your back mate", except he obviously said that in Japanese.

Also Soul Calibur without Sieg 3B isn't a Soul Calibur game, so don't be silly folks.
I can also confirm that Wander and Okubo are neighbors, as I live across them and saw them jog together on several occasions.

jokes aside, Hayate did a through breakdown on the likeliness of sieg inclusion. Probably already shared somewhere in this forum, but I haven't seen it and this thread is just the right place.