Skill vs. Talent

[LunchSpecial]

Just Let it Die

Screw it we all have are own ideas of skill and talent and this whole things a mess because of my wording of "Skill vs Talent"

what this was meant to be was an anti-People who only use combos and nothing else thread.
These people don't try to play the game like it was meant to be played the just play to win and they have lost sight of the point of this game.

not a, what is skill
or what is talent thread

EVERY ONE JUST STOP
and remember winning doesn't equal skill because if we play chess and i decide to shot you when i start to lose dose that mean I'm a good chess player. not really but because i won I'm looked at as the better player.

DON'T SHOT PEOPLE WHEN YOU PLAY CHESS!

Its my fault so just please let this thread die!

 

[Plume]

I wouldn't call it talent, but as you can see from my signature, my thoughts in general are the same...

The funny thing is that people still seem to believe that the better player is the one who wins.
Just look at the youtube videos. If you look at the comments and see one of the players being complimented, you can bet your ass that they're the one who won that match, even if the opponent was obviously a much better player in general.

 

[MAILBOXARSON99]

Your words don't mean shit unless you win. The better player is the one who wins, regardless of how they won. What award do you get when you lose? None.

Losing is not skill. Winning is skill.

 

[Gods-Spartan]

Not to sure what your driving at. I assume your trying to separate the Talent and Skill.

Talent= An ability to do well. A natural ability.
Skill= Knowing and incorporating certain principles in the game. Knowledge in action.

Some may not have a natural talent to play (me) but must deicate thier time to improve thier skill. While others possess skill which to me is the definition stated above. And there are those that possess both.

However. Not sure why your crying about the difference between the two. It makes it sould like (to me) that you were beat by one of these "skilless" players. Like you are some source of skill yourself with so much vast knowledge to contribute to these threads.

Look....I'm not attempting to rip you apart or anything. But this post is an attempt to trash on what? Something you view and disagree with? What gives you the right to determine just how far someone is willing to go with this game?

So how about something productive to help the community instead of this BS? Maybe then more players who don't possess this so called skill which you abviously possess (sarcasm) can know what it takes to truley play Soul Calibur.

 

[MAILBOXARSON99]

This guy probably believes talent=cheap.

/edit/ He probably also doesn't know that he's getting hit by shakable stun combos.

 

[Plume]

I started a similar thread many months ago.

Basically people agreed that the better player is the one with better basics than the one who just slaughters people with combos and becomes worthless without them.

I get the impression that talent is the one who has good techniques but poor basics, and skill is the opposite...
But the words chosen don't make much sense in that case, so maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Nukleurfire]

Hai u guys ur doin it rong doing krazee skil pro moves iz talent thatz why u haf 2 play setzka 2 b skeeleed wtf r mingams doin teh jfs r wut matturs that iz reel skillag

-heaphestus

I think what you mean is execution vs, well, everything else. This has been pretty well spelunked (not that it needed to be), and I believe the majority of the community has agreed that defense and mixup are greater than performing moves.

Edit: I'm having trouble understanding your post. How do you GI in the middle of a combo? Doesn't that make it, by definition, not a combo? And your two examples, they are... One person who wins with an emphasis on combos and one who neglects them?

 

[MAILBOXARSON99]

Hai u guys ur doin it rong doing krazee skil pro moves iz talent thatz why u haf 2 play setzka 2 b skeeleed wtf r mingams doin teh jfs r wut matturs that iz reel skillag

-heaphestus

I think what you mean is execution vs, well, everything else. This has been pretty well spelunked (not that it needed to be), and I believe the majority of the community has agreed that defense and mixup are greater than performing moves.

Edit: I'm having trouble understanding your post. How do you GI in the middle of a combo? Doesn't that make it, by definition, not a combo? And your two examples, they are... One person who wins with an emphasis on combos and one who neglects them?

He clearly is confused regarding the difference between a combo and a string.

 

[Nukleurfire]

He clearly is confused regarding the difference between a combo and a string.

That... Is quite an interesting mistake. They are not really easy to mix up... Maybe he means that the ivy players do all segments of their combos regardless of whether the launcher hits or not?

 

[Laswagga]

Here, i'm not going to give you some half-way insulting response and make fun of you for "losing", if thats the case at all, like my peers here did. I'm pretty sure I know what you're trying to determine, the difference between skill and Talent.

Honestly, those Ivy combo's are a result of neither skill nor talent but instead, they are a result of "wow, this high level Ivy player just did this crazy combo on me, I gotta learn it!" Little do these people know, the person that just hit them with that combo probably copied it from someone else, who copied it from another ivy player. Take Sig for example, played any Sig's online? 3B all over the screen. Now, his 3B is a good move, but it isn't all he has. But I promise you that about 90% of these people will rely heavily on being able to use that stance. Now, is being able to do this skill or talent? Again, its really neither. Its a matter of "monkey see, monkey do."

I think the difference is that skill is being able to use your characters entire move-list, or atleast a good portion of it, affectively. You can get a K.O. on someone with a simple BB or AA if you know what you're doing with it. Some sigs can beat you without ever using 3B at all simply because they know their character so well, and are so comfortable with it, that they don't need to use that move to be dangerous. Take BifordusMaximus for example, he 3B's but he doesn't HAVE to do it to win. Others do. Skill is being able to adapt, and still being able to win. Even if the player is better than you, if they are depending on a certain string to come out for them to win then you switch it up if you're smarter than them, anticipate it, and then punish when they screw up chances are you're going to win.

Now, "talent" on the other hand is different. You can have "Talent" with something, and still not be able to win or be extremely good at it. Like, I have a talent for playing Street Fighter 4, but I get my ass kicked by people who don't know what they're doing and are just throwing out random hadoukens and Shoryuukens. My talent doesn't get my very far, if I still don't know what i'm doing. Yeah, I can throw out a cross-up, but what happens if my cross up doesn't work? I get punched in the damn nose for it! I'm sure you have some talent in something that you'd love to be good at, but you just don't have the skill for it.

Right? Long post, but i'm trying to answer your thread without calling you an idiot.

 

[LunchSpecial]

This guy probably believes talent=cheap.

/edit/ He probably also doesn't know that he's getting hit by shakable stun combos.

i don't think talent is cheap but when people win by using the same combo over and over and say they have skill and it pisses me off.
i know about shakable stuns but the point is if you slave over a combo does that make you good? most people say no because as this proves combos dont equal skill.

The player has the ability to do these but is hopeless with out them

 

[Plume]

These vids don't prove that they can't play well without combos...
And the Algol vid was made by Oofmatic, who is seen as one of the best SCIV players...

Meh. Not sure what to think of this thread anymore.

 

[KingAce]

The better man doesn't always win.
Apply this to life.

You can try your ass off to achieve and be successfull in life, while other people have rich parents and basically work up the ladder unopposed.

What is Talent?
Talent is the ability or perception to see further than the average man.
What is Skill?
Skill is the ability to apply all circumstances and conditions in your favor.

My theory is
You can be born with a Talent, or you can develop it with hard work.

Being able to pull Ivy's Command grabs or Combos isn't Talent, that is what we call a skill.

If you're refered to as the best Ivy player in the Country, that right there is Talented.

Talent is rare and trancends the norm.

 

[Twelve]

Now this is something that just gets me all fired up some people don't realize that they don't have skill they have talent.

1. Almost all ivy players do long combos that take away a lot of health but they practice those combos a lot and need it to win. If you GI half-way through they are like "#$@% you" and they try to start that combo or another up.

2.A players style starts off well but does not go into endless combos giving the chance to be attacked and using that as a GI opportunity then follows up.

The only thing I'm going to call out as stupid here (and these threads are almost always guilty of this) is the false dichotomy you've presented. Sure, there are players who spam combo starters and rely on you eventually walking into it for a big combo, and there are players who don't learn or use huge combos but still win with good fundamentals. But there are also players with solid fundamentals who will intentionally bait you into those combos, or otherwise use them when appropriate.

The reason you don't see "pro" players use those stun combos very often isn't because of this "skill vs. talent" thing you've created. They don't use them because they are generally fighting people skilled enough to shake them all the time. They don't suddenly suck for using a breakable combo on someone whom they know won't break it.

The funny thing is that people still seem to believe that the better player is the one who wins.

You've just got it backwards. It's not "the better player wins," it's "the winner is the better player." This is true pretty much by definition.

 

[Ceirnian]

The only way to fix this is to do away with life bars and select a panel of judges to decide who wins each match.

 

[LunchSpecial]

These vids don't prove that they can't play well without combos...
And the Algol vid was made by Oofmatic, who is seen as one of the best SCIV players...

Meh. Not sure what to think of this thread anymore.

ya Oofmatic is an awsome SC4 player but i am trying to show you that these "combos" are out there and people go to youtube and learn these and use THESE COMBOS AND NOTHING ELSE
then they go on to brag about how much skill they have. That don't have any kind of skill they just have the ability to push buttons fast and in order. So when it comes down to it they have no common sense and can ONLY use combos that other good players show them.

i think this whole thread got throw off because of me using the whole "talent vs skill" wording
my bad i'm going to think of better word choice next time.

THIS ISN'T DISSING PEOPLE WHO USE COMBOS OR WHO DON'T IT'S TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO
CLAIM TO BE GOOD BUT ONLY KNOW 1 or 2 COMBOS AND REPEAT THEM OVER AND OVER ALL MATCH LONG
^^^^^^^^^^^^ That is the goal of this thread
_________________________________________
====== DOUBLE POST AUTO-MERGE ======

The only way to fix this is to do away with life bars and select a panel of judges to decide who wins each match.

Serious or not this is the best idea ever

 

[KingAce]

You've just got it backwards. It's not "the better player wins," it's "the winner is the better player." This is true pretty much by definition.

I disagree

The winner is simply the winner. He/she achieves the necessary conditions to be consider a winner. How he/she gets to meet those conditions determines if he/she is "the better player."

 

[GreatOne1939]

Using doom combo is not skill. Avoiding doom combo is skill.
Using bubble shield is not skill. Advancing through bubble shield is skill.
Using shakable stun strings is not skill. Shaking stuns is skill.
Using mixups is not skill. Reading mixups is skill.
Now, I'm not saying not to do it. It's just a "For Your Info" thing.

I'm not articulate enough to convey what I think on this, but I do know that I like this quote.

 

[Soda]

I think the line between so called "Talent" and "Skill" is drawn very thin. In order to say someone has Talent in something they have have to be naturally endowed with the ability to do said thing. For example to say someone has talent in SCIV They would have to never play before and come in whooping ass. That is talent. On the other Skill is somthing that is worked for another example having Skill is Starting out as a beginner overcoming your faults and become a better player through practicing Thus gaining the SKILLS necessary to win. That is having skill.

 

[Twelve]

That don't have any kind of skill they just have the ability to push buttons fast and in order.

That's a skill.

The winner is simply the winner. He/she achieves the necessary conditions to be consider a winner. How he/she gets to meet those conditions determines if he/she is "the better player."

How the conditions are met has no bearing, only the consistency with which they are met. If you regularly beat someone by "mixing up" 1A and BB, you are better, even if the loser was pulling off Setsuka's JF combos. Of course he or she may very well be better at JFs, but in the context of being better at the game, winning is the test.

It depends on how you're defining "skill" and "talent," and how broadly. I generally think of skill as something that required practice, while talent is similar, but innate. This is still a blurry line. After all, if I'm talented at 1B:B, and someone else is skilled at 1B:B, is there really a difference?

I could call bowling a skill, but a bowler would probably subdivide it into a group of skills, such as fingering (woo woo), spin, stance, etc.