So how do you beat Vader?

Plume

Plume

[09] Warrior
I'm not paying money for star wars trash... So I can't bring that star wars trash in training mode.
What are people supposed to be looking for when they face this star wars trash?

Button mashtards seem easy to beat, but those who know what they're doing seem really dangerous.

So far I noticed that we can duck his unblockable that makes a strange red glow in front of him...
And it seems that we can crouch block his force grab when we're on the ground.

Surely there's more to it? I didn't notice any weakness. He seems to be capable to chain some pretty long combos or strings, with the help of the force moves.

In the youtube videos that I've seen so far, this star wars trash only loses if he's too scared to let go of the block button.
 
Oh, cool, thanks. I'm going to test this as soon as I meet one.



...I was asking for advices. Things to look for, weaknesses to exploit, etc.
Normally I'd do the right thing and bring him in training mode, but I can't.
 
Side Stepping!
As a Vader mainer i cannot say how many times i have been foiled by side stepping. Also you should be able to beat him extremely easily by getting up in his face and not letting him attack.
 
Side stepping is pretty hard to deal with while using Vader. A lot of his anti-step moves are high too so if you have a TC out of 8wayrun, you're good to go.

A thing about his unblockables, one is high and comes out really fast, then there's another version that hits mid and has huge range but takes a little bit longer to charge up. Best thing to do against both is sidestep if you can react fast enough. Don't stay on the ground or roll, otherwise he might start doing a force pickup. Just pop back up and step right away.

Also if Vader has his back to the edge of the ring, throw break A. Be careful about ducking because he can do a mid stab that leads to a reverse ring out as well.
 
yea, in line with what others have said, Vader's primary flaw is that most of his good quick moves are verticals. so sidestepping is effective because vader players mostly use verticals
 
Cheers, thank you guys.

I wonder why there isn't such a thread for every character, but that's one more towards this.
 
being a vader player for a short time ive found that most of his low moves are either to slow or just suck completely so i guess you have to worry about low moves a lot less with this character, or that could just be cause i havent found the right uses for all his moves yet.

as someone already said if you get up close vader has a really hard time and you only really need to watch out for his 1ba thats a high attack from memory, which seems to be his fastest move.
 
:1::B::A: is a mid high string. It comes out pretty fast and I'm pretty sure it TCs too. Second hit covers step pretty well. I spam this attack a lot actually.

Yeah, I don't really know if Vader has any good low attacks. I know he has a low kick out of an 8wayrun, and then there's :4::B::+::K: (I think that's the input). Definitely nothing to worry about.
 
He mostly gets his mixups from his throws, which means two things:1. Good luck if your foe can break throws well.2. You need to use his lows sparingly. His best in terms is probably 4B+K, but you still can't abuse it since it uses the force guage.
 
I'd say just stay on him like white on rice. Most of his moves are slow so they can be stopped if you keep hitting him. I found him quite annoying to deal against until I got the hang of his moves.
 
Yeah, even YODA can sidewalk Vader....I'll repeat that for those who didn't think they read that right...

EVEN YODA CAN SIDEWALK VADER!

My advice.
-Vader is very, VERY linear (see: Yoda can sidewalk vader, lol)
-Avoid getting knocked down at all cost, force choke isn't something to mess with.
--if you do get knocked down, avoid rolling if you can. I believe force choke crap picks up rollers.
-while his 1BA TCs, Vader can punish his own 1BA on block, with a 1BA. Keep that in mind.(its very punishable)
-If your back is near a wall Vader's B throw pushes you into the wall for a stun, thats never fun.
-The flashyist move in vader's arsenal also drains the fuck out of his Force Meter, his 236A+B can actually stay out there for quiet some time. On a hold input it GCs but he'll go into Retarded Batman(see: ytmnd) mode after it usually.
 
i mean this with all sincerity, vader has effectively no good sword swing type moves.

his moves that we say are good are actually just average, but so much better than the rest of his stuff that it seems godlike by comparison.

his best moves are
:4::B: (which is maybe even above average compared to normal characters moves)

and

:1::B::A: (which is merely average)

everything else he does with his sword is so slow you can literally count the seconds it takes to swing.

his non sword moves are good, maybe even very good.

always get up right away after being knocked down to avoid his force pick ups.

all of his force blast attacks can be side stepped (which is the way the should be)

really there is no reason for you to fear vader or worry about practicing against him.

oh, and i think he actually has an artificially small throw range.
 
K, 3B+K, FC A+B, FC K, FC A, 2K, 4AA, AA are all faster than 4B.

getting right up after knockdown is typically how you eat his high damage tech traps and good oki

His throw range is huge
 
suirad, while not disputing the frame data on the attacks you listed, do you feel that his attacks are anything but impossibly slow in practical terms? i am not asking to be argumentative but am really very curious about your opinion on the subject. would you argue that he has any useful lows?

i would even argue that his force counters are of dubious value since they consume such an absurd amount of his force gauge.

as for his throw range, i wonder if his two throws, the gorilla press and the force choke, have a different range then. i have been using the gorilla press of late and it certainly seems to have an artificially small range or maybe a some what finicky issue with hit boxes. it feels like it has the same range as a "normal" characters throw at best such as mitsurugi or the apprentice but really it feels smaller. certainly it does not feel like it has the same range as astaroth's throws. if i may expand upon that point, i got quite good at using astaroth's throws to counter various moves by grabbing people is mid swing. i can not do that with vader. some of that may simply be a lack of experience with the character, but it really does feel to me like he has a small throw range.

i will have to review his tech traps again. using the force cannon against people getting up rather trying to force grab them instead has certainly proven largely fruitless against countless online opponents.

i really think the whole force gauge thing should be completely eliminated as a superfluous mechanic that unnecessarily weakens already weak characters, but i may be in the minority on that opinion. the force gauge issue does bear consideration in that it does not refill between matches, an inexcusable issue in my opinion.

all of that said, if you know of better way to play him i would love to hear your opinion and learn.
 
You could check the frame data i made about Vader. So 4AA, 4B, 3B+K are i18.

Vader has terrible low attacks. 11K is my favourite even if it is i30 it has big range and is -11 on block, 0 on hit/ch, useful for oki.

His throw range is the same for both of his throws as is with everyone else..

U can read those topics http://www.caliburforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33262
http://www.caliburforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33213

I write interesting things also so read my Ground_zero/Spidey posts.
 
smilingsaint said:
i really think the whole force gauge thing should be completely eliminated as a superfluous mechanic that unnecessarily weakens already weak characters, but i may be in the minority on that opinion. the force gauge issue does bear consideration in that it does not refill between matches, an inexcusable issue in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Although I'm no Vader expert, I have to agree with this. Vader seems to rely very heavily on his force powers, and when he runs dry, he's rather helpless. Even his best low (4B+K, I believe), requires force. While I don't think the force gauge should be taken away completely, I do think it should at least recharge in-between rounds.
 
I think Vader is still somewhat playable with the limitations put on him by the force meter. Completely recharging the meter between rounds would almost make him too strong. I'm not sure when it actually does recharge, but it seems that it only recharges when Vader lands certain designated (non-force) moves. So as far as buffs, I think if they did any combination of the following he'd be good to go:
  • recharge after landing every non-force move
  • recharge after executing designated attacks, whether it lands or not
  • slowly recharge when doing anything other than a force move
  • recharge after landing designated attacks even after a K.O. in between rounds, similar to X stocking up SXS (except this encourages overkill as opposed to annoying taunting)

Either that or make some of his force moves even better/drain less gauge.

Vader in general, while limited in low attacks, has throws and good UBs. After moves like 6BbG, he can go into A+B and 1A+B variations, meaning he can cancel to neutral frames on block or go through with the UB if he gets the opponent to freeze up after blocking. Also, Vader does great Soul Gauge damage, so it's not as simple as a standing guard to win against Vader. IMO, Vader still hasn't been played up to his full potential. Most people outside of his SA don't know about these setups so it's hard to apply them so everyone gets a feel for who Vader really is. In the back of my mind, Yoda is this was as well, he just doesn't get enough play for people to characterize his place in the roster (with that said, if the two are eventually going to be recognized as respected characters, Vader is gonna get there long before Yoda).

/2cents
 
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