sWoRD_LoRD
[09] Warrior
Commentary isn't exciting unless you say some shit ur not supposed to say.
Soul Calibur 5 World Tourney results
- Thread starter 0VincentRayne0
- Start date
Azazel
[12] Conqueror
Commentary was good, now lets move on, OK!?
Alex.J
[14] Master
Anyways, I just finished most the vids and that tournament was on point. I enjoyed watching it and have no complaints. Even though Omega won all of his matches, they were so close and intense that it was really fun to watch. Omega, you got nerves of steel man. Or as CrazyYoshimitsu said, you got heart. Hopefully i'll get a chance to play you sometime.
NFK, good job repping Cali man. You definitely brought your A game to that tourney. That last round vs Omega was ridiculous. Also that match vs RTD where you CE'd his backdash with a sliver of health. That was pretty manly.
One thing I would like to see though is maybe an exhibition match between Markman and FilthieRich before a tourney. I know they got skills, they just need a chance to show them. The way they commentate is a decision, they could get a lot more technical if they wanted to. But stirring up the crowd and getting people excited isn't a bad thing and they did a really good job of doing it. Or maybe Markman and FilthieRich would be down to money match me. Those are always good platforms to prove skill haha.
NFK, good job repping Cali man. You definitely brought your A game to that tourney. That last round vs Omega was ridiculous. Also that match vs RTD where you CE'd his backdash with a sliver of health. That was pretty manly.
One thing I would like to see though is maybe an exhibition match between Markman and FilthieRich before a tourney. I know they got skills, they just need a chance to show them. The way they commentate is a decision, they could get a lot more technical if they wanted to. But stirring up the crowd and getting people excited isn't a bad thing and they did a really good job of doing it. Or maybe Markman and FilthieRich would be down to money match me. Those are always good platforms to prove skill haha.
Srayer
Keep Fighting
There seems to be some false dichotomy that commentary has to be either dry and technical or nonstop shouting and "hype building." Good commentary is somewhere in between.
Anyway, I had two main problems with the commentary:
1. FilthieRich appeared to have limited knowledge of the game. He was constantly making up names for attacks, or calling them out incorrectly, or just stating the obvious. I don't care if a commentator isn't a top-tier player, or doesn't know any frame data, but at least know the terminology and understand the mechanics. Commentators are speaking to the audience, so speak in a language we can understand. This isn't snobbery - it's not "fuck this Tekken player" - it's about communication, and adding value to the viewing experience.
2. He yelled non-stop and got excited about everything that happened in the match, whether it was exciting or not. This kind of ties in with #1, since it seems like he didn't understand which events were remarkable and which were pedestrian. I understand that the goal is to get the audience excited, but not everything that happens during a match is exciting. And that's okay! Really good hype is a crescendo, and all those little events that aren't that interesting by themselves slowly ratchet up the excitement until true, unadulterated hype explodes all over your face and into your hair. Trying to manufacture false hype by shouting hysterically every time a move lands and yelling "GET HYPE" nonstop as the microphone distorts is just annoying. It's like if you were watching football, and the commentator flipped his shit after a touchback or after a 5-yard pass at the 80 yard line. If he continued on like that, it'd get annoying real fast, wouldn't it?
And finally, none of this detracts from what an awesome event this was, and none of it takes credit away from the players, those who support the community, or those who made this event possible. Both MarkMan and FilthieRich have done tons for the FG community, and having supporters on the inside is extremely valuable. Anyone who doesn't appreciate what they've done is a fool. For the most part, we who are criticizing the commentary are only doing so because we're really passionate about the game, and we want to see the bar raised as high as possible. Not all of the criticism has been constructive, granted. But try to look past that and consider how things can be incrementally improved.
Anyway, I had two main problems with the commentary:
1. FilthieRich appeared to have limited knowledge of the game. He was constantly making up names for attacks, or calling them out incorrectly, or just stating the obvious. I don't care if a commentator isn't a top-tier player, or doesn't know any frame data, but at least know the terminology and understand the mechanics. Commentators are speaking to the audience, so speak in a language we can understand. This isn't snobbery - it's not "fuck this Tekken player" - it's about communication, and adding value to the viewing experience.
2. He yelled non-stop and got excited about everything that happened in the match, whether it was exciting or not. This kind of ties in with #1, since it seems like he didn't understand which events were remarkable and which were pedestrian. I understand that the goal is to get the audience excited, but not everything that happens during a match is exciting. And that's okay! Really good hype is a crescendo, and all those little events that aren't that interesting by themselves slowly ratchet up the excitement until true, unadulterated hype explodes all over your face and into your hair. Trying to manufacture false hype by shouting hysterically every time a move lands and yelling "GET HYPE" nonstop as the microphone distorts is just annoying. It's like if you were watching football, and the commentator flipped his shit after a touchback or after a 5-yard pass at the 80 yard line. If he continued on like that, it'd get annoying real fast, wouldn't it?
And finally, none of this detracts from what an awesome event this was, and none of it takes credit away from the players, those who support the community, or those who made this event possible. Both MarkMan and FilthieRich have done tons for the FG community, and having supporters on the inside is extremely valuable. Anyone who doesn't appreciate what they've done is a fool. For the most part, we who are criticizing the commentary are only doing so because we're really passionate about the game, and we want to see the bar raised as high as possible. Not all of the criticism has been constructive, granted. But try to look past that and consider how things can be incrementally improved.
Malice
Super Moderator
The thing is that it does detract to those on the outside looking in.
And I see people with complaints but I don't see anyone else stepping up like they can do better. It's easy to criticize what other people are doing from the comfort of home. Plus who wants to hear detailed analysis and frame data at an open bar in Vegas, especially if you already know how to play the game? Come on son.
Alex.J
[14] Master
If you love the community and you love the game, support it. I remember back in SC3 people would talk all the time about how Namco didn't support the community and no one gave the community a chance. Even in SC4 there was still some talk like that. Then SC5 rolls in and all of a sudden was have FilthieRich doing his best to support us. Namco and MLG throwing big ass tournaments for us with amazing prizes. Tbh, one of the main reasons I still play this game is because of all the new support for it. I want to be part of the greatness that is going to happen and I want those nice looking 10k first place prizes. People need to stop nitpicking and hating and start supporting whats happening. As a community a lot of people (not all) are being extremely ingrateful. Do you guys really want to complain that bad? Just be happy that people want to support us and are trying to do their best. This is a great time to be playing soul calibur, so stop whining over every minor flaw.
Srayer
Keep Fighting
That doesn't even make sense. This is a community forum. We're on the inside, looking in. There are no outsiders here.
Furthermore, I don't get what the problem is with constructive criticism. Are our egos so sad and fragile that we can't stand to say that something can be improved?
I see this bit of nonsense trotted out all the time. Whether you can do something or not isn't always correlated with your ability to judge it. Even people that can't cook can tell you that a shit sandwich doesn't taste good.
I already addressed that in my post, "son". Actually, in the very first sentence - nice reading comprehension. Your mother and I are very disappointed in you.
Malice
Super Moderator
I
It doesnt make sense to you because you are oblivious to what else is going on in the community.
It doesnt make sense to you because you are oblivious to what else is going on in the community.
banes
[10] Knight
i hate that this is turning into a "you are ungrateful if u dont love our commentary" direction, people are starting to believe its the old give a mouse a cookie and he'll ask for a glass of milk routine, but thats not the case, we are tremendously grateful for the great stream opportunity to watch finals live, to have namco finally supporting us, and to have commentators who are doing everything they can for the FGC
now if u had a buddy who everytime his back was to the ring, u would ring him out with nightmares A flapjack throw, you would tell him to break A or block it right? you wouldn't just say hey dude i support your gameplay, ur doing a good job breaking B at least, u would tell him whats up, because hes ur friend, and you want him to get better, now what if u urself couldn't break A against the rings edge, does that somehow invalidate the advice? could he really, or should he really turn around with attitude and say well why should i listen to u? i dont see u doing it
its just a suggestion, and if u cant accept someone pointing out your flaws and suggesting what could be done better, you will never get better at soul calibur, likewise, we should be humble enough to not feel personally attacked when people offer up constructive criticism on how to improve streamed matches
now if u had a buddy who everytime his back was to the ring, u would ring him out with nightmares A flapjack throw, you would tell him to break A or block it right? you wouldn't just say hey dude i support your gameplay, ur doing a good job breaking B at least, u would tell him whats up, because hes ur friend, and you want him to get better, now what if u urself couldn't break A against the rings edge, does that somehow invalidate the advice? could he really, or should he really turn around with attitude and say well why should i listen to u? i dont see u doing it
its just a suggestion, and if u cant accept someone pointing out your flaws and suggesting what could be done better, you will never get better at soul calibur, likewise, we should be humble enough to not feel personally attacked when people offer up constructive criticism on how to improve streamed matches
Srayer
Keep Fighting
Feel free to enlighten me, then.
Dr. Hates
Jerk.
There's definitely legitimate room for criticism here along a number of vectors. It's utterly appropriate that so many people are happy about the gestures Namco has made, but that doesn't mean that respectfully voicing opinions on how these things might be improved makes us somehow ungrateful.
Actually, I think it's imperative that we think about these things as a community. I've been processing a lot of feedback from various people lately, and the impression I get is that we gots a long road to hoe. Luckily, it's nothing we can't handle, provided we don't shout down dissenting viewpoints by default.
Actually, I think it's imperative that we think about these things as a community. I've been processing a lot of feedback from various people lately, and the impression I get is that we gots a long road to hoe. Luckily, it's nothing we can't handle, provided we don't shout down dissenting viewpoints by default.
Gracias man, de verdad que agradesco mucho tus palabras, recuerda el punto no es siempre ganar si no gozar el juego, sigue jugando y ve a competencias , que vale la pena se conoce todo tipo de gente.
Alex.J
[14] Master
I am not saying we shouldn't give constructive criticism, but correct me if i am wrong but there is a difference between criticism and whining. I also think there is a difference between criticism that was asked for and someone deciding to chime in. But when I see after every tourney someone complaining about the announcing every time like clockwork. With a lot of these post not even giving any ways of how to improve I chalk that up to complaining. Also, I do think as a whole a lot people are taking whats going on for granted. There are major differences between someone saying "OMG THEY NERFED MY CHARACTER, I HATE NAMCO" and "I liked the movement in prepatch because the sense of spacing made me think a lot more during the match." Same with "I think they did a great job commentating, but i think they can improve by doing this." and "the commentators were annoying". But oh well, to each their own.
Exactly my point alex, no support they complain, we get support they complain, damm, o and about my matches i dont know how i did it, the only thing i can say, i think i was meant to win the tournament, cause i dont know how else to put it, this guys were all killers, congrats to everyone that was in the tourney and dont know about that title, world champion, to big for me, me dont like, i just hope 1 thing comes out from this and is ZAS LOL.
Heaton
A Soul in the Purgatory
"A dream is just a dream. Even fools will eventually awaken."
Saw some very amazing things from you. I expect to see you in the Siegfried SA some time, Omega. Some people are in desperate need of some new technology, and I hope you can be the one to finally bring it to them.
Malice
Super Moderator
And I'm with Alex on this one. I question the need for some people to publicly nitpick the people helping to put this event together.
I just hope that there's even another world tournament for this game to even put this "feedback" towards.
I just hope that there's even another world tournament for this game to even put this "feedback" towards.
Neuroth
[10] Knight
That's a little ominous. Did they lose a bunch of money on the World Tourney?
Dr. Hates
Jerk.
Well I'm not shy about putting my money where my mouth is. Expect some public nitpicking in the relatively near future. ;) I don't think anyone is questioning intent, but we need to get down to brass tacks in terms of execution when it comes to some things if for no other reason than the promise of what SCV can become with the support it's being given.
The World Championship was an absolutely awesome idea, and it gave us absolutely top-notch matches, so why did only ~3000 people tune in? Why wasn't the stream promoted more through this and other sites? Why wasn't the time of the event made readily available before the day of the tournament? Why, if (as rightly pointed out) more substantive commentary might pose problems due to the players being able to hear, wasn't some other accommodation made?
I don't think malice (HA HA) or incompetence are the answers to any of these questions. It's just damn hard to account for everything when you're essentially exploring uncharted territory. That's why it's incumbent upon us to point out what works and what doesn't, even if it's only in vague, impressionistic terms. I've spent enough time talking to Rich, for example, to know that he's not gonna freak out and go Sensitive Sally if someone says "this particular aspect didn't do it for me." He wants what all of us want: SCV blowing up and setting the bar damn high for every other game. Part of our role as the heaviest consumers of SCV content is to take the guesswork out of Namco's job generally and his job specifically. Getting proxy-offended on behalf of other people doesn't strike me as especially conducive to that.
Of course, there is a substantive difference between making a valid point and simply ripping things for the sake of ripping them, but we should all be savvy enough at this point that we can distinguish legitimate discussion from blatant trolling. Beyond that, it's simply a matter of fostering an environment which can accommodate that sort of thing, and of developing a mechanism for expressing critique without stepping on anyone's toes. Once again--and it shocks me deeply that I end up having to explicitly state this over and over--we're all on the same side, and we're working toward the same goals.
The World Championship was an absolutely awesome idea, and it gave us absolutely top-notch matches, so why did only ~3000 people tune in? Why wasn't the stream promoted more through this and other sites? Why wasn't the time of the event made readily available before the day of the tournament? Why, if (as rightly pointed out) more substantive commentary might pose problems due to the players being able to hear, wasn't some other accommodation made?
I don't think malice (HA HA) or incompetence are the answers to any of these questions. It's just damn hard to account for everything when you're essentially exploring uncharted territory. That's why it's incumbent upon us to point out what works and what doesn't, even if it's only in vague, impressionistic terms. I've spent enough time talking to Rich, for example, to know that he's not gonna freak out and go Sensitive Sally if someone says "this particular aspect didn't do it for me." He wants what all of us want: SCV blowing up and setting the bar damn high for every other game. Part of our role as the heaviest consumers of SCV content is to take the guesswork out of Namco's job generally and his job specifically. Getting proxy-offended on behalf of other people doesn't strike me as especially conducive to that.
Of course, there is a substantive difference between making a valid point and simply ripping things for the sake of ripping them, but we should all be savvy enough at this point that we can distinguish legitimate discussion from blatant trolling. Beyond that, it's simply a matter of fostering an environment which can accommodate that sort of thing, and of developing a mechanism for expressing critique without stepping on anyone's toes. Once again--and it shocks me deeply that I end up having to explicitly state this over and over--we're all on the same side, and we're working toward the same goals.
docvizzo
[14] Master
Dont forget this tournament started at 4 AM in Europe during the week, so basically ZERO viewers from here expect some huge nerds.
OF COURSE i stayed awake and i thought it was really good. Im not the biggest fan of _pure_ Hype commentating, but for this event it was the right choice, they did a great job, great matches, great stream. Great timeschedule, no interruptions etc...it was hard enough to stay awake till 7 am, so i was really happy about how fast things went...
OF COURSE i stayed awake and i thought it was really good. Im not the biggest fan of _pure_ Hype commentating, but for this event it was the right choice, they did a great job, great matches, great stream. Great timeschedule, no interruptions etc...it was hard enough to stay awake till 7 am, so i was really happy about how fast things went...