Soulcalibur VI DLC Discussion Thread

[Ukkesh]

Honestly, watching Li Long fight off assassins would be awesome. Having him be paranoid and suspicious could make him s really interesting character. Have taki have special dialogue talking about him being a broken man, and have him be suspicious of everyone. It could be interesting to give him a specific dialogue with Talim accusing her of being a secret assassin or something, then have her respond like "dude , I'm tiny and a priestess! Why are you crazy" or something.

 

[Rusted Blade]

Honestly, watching Li Long fight off assassins would be awesome. Having him be paranoid and suspicious could make him s really interesting character. Have taki have special dialogue talking about him being a broken man, and have him be suspicious of everyone. It could be interesting to give him a specific dialogue with Talim accusing her of being a secret assassin or something, then have her respond like "dude , I'm tiny and a priestess! Why are you crazy" or something.

Yeah, I almost responded to Klimat's comment there with "Because traumatized badasses trying to put their thoughts in order between fits of brutal violence necessitated by the plot are rare in action stories?" But then I chose instead to fixate on a more central point. :D

 

[Klimat]

Also, you're presuming that the DLC characters will all get their own Soul Chronicle story line. I'm not sure we know for a fact that they will.

In case DLC characters don't get Soul Chronicle plots, your whole idea that DLC characters are selected due to their story potential goes right out of the window, so at this point you are basically contradicting yourself.

I think we should all be crossing our fingers that the story we have in the base game at present is mostly it for this entry.

I absolutely disagree.

You say, for example: "He was mostly running away from generic assassins avoiding actual fights at all costs due to being traumatised physically and mentally by [X] back in Soul Edge." Well, you do realize that you just described Siegfried's plot in SCVI to a T, right?

Main drivers to include a character in a fighting game are: 1). Popularity, 2). An absolute need to fill a certain gameplay archetype, 3). Story relevance. Siegfried in his actual Siegfried persona initially had no story relevance in SC1 due to being absorbed into Nightmare, but he had to be included due to extreme popularity, so some story had to be invented to excuse his inclusion. Li Long on the other hand is not popular at all AND is a semi clone AND has no story relevance. It's 3 out of 3 on a scale of irrelevance. There are no redeming qualities to him beyond a blind gotta catch em 'all SC3:AE roster mentality aka simply checking a questionable box for the sake of checking a questionable box.

 

[Rusted Blade]

In case DLC characters don't get Soul Chronicle plots, your whole idea that DLC characters are selected due to their story potential goes right out of the window, so at this point you are basically contradicting yourself.

I see no contradiction whatsoever. For starters, I expressly said that, whether I think its a waste of resources and detrimental to our roster hopes or not, I do believe it probable that non-guest DLC characters will indeed get soul chronicles. I mentioned the fact that we don't know this for sure merely for the sake of a complete analysis. Beyond that, even if there are no soul chronicles for the DLC character, I believe it's still more likely than not that the devs will select mostly or entirely "classic" characters for the sake of tonal consistency with the rest of the product.

Also, I've never talked about any of this in terms of story "potential"; for the purposes of engineering the kind of generic story fodder that defines every last second of the plot in this game, I'm quite certain that Li Long and Hilde have exactly the same amount of "potential". Again, the devs can easily engineer just as much random encounters with other main characters and random bandit pummeling as is necessary to justify a soul chronicle, whoever is chosen. What I believe is the constraining factor, is the devs' demonstrated interest in consistency with past storylines that cover these same events.

I absolutely disagree.

Well, mileage will vary in that respect. Personally, if I wanted more anime melodrama delivered through scenery chewing voice acting, I'd have a subscription to Crunchyroll. :)

Main drivers to include a character in a fighting game are: 1). Popularity, 2). An absolute need to fill a certain gameplay archetype, [emphasis added] 3). Story relevance.

I believe you are massively oversimplifying the complexity of design and balance variables in fighting games here. If "we only need one of that general sort" were the defining philosophy of developers in this genre, the rosters for the last five Soul Calibur/Project Soul games (and for that matter, pretty much every other fighter made in the last twenty years) would look drastically different from what actually occurs.

I also think you're giving "popularity" more weight than it actually has in operation when a game is being built. Sure, every series has its Ryus and Chun-lis who are going to always make the cut, but the reality of designing a game as a working product is much more complicated than "the top twenty most popular character are going to be our base roster and the next ten most popular will be our expanded roster."

Li Long on the other hand is not popular at all AND is a semi clone AND has no story relevance. It's 3 out of 3 on a scale of irrelevance. There are no redeeming qualities to him beyond a blind gotta catch em 'all SC3:AE roster mentality aka simply checking a questionable box for the sake of checking a questionable box.

Look, again, I'm not the person to have a debate with about the relative value of the different story approaches. I'm not defending any of these choices as the right one--or disparaging individual choices for that matter, with the caveat that I've never found the storytelling of the series to be particularly compelling, mature or well-developed. I'm simply making observations about what I think the developers have clearly decided to focus upon in this entry and what that would seem to suggest for any realistic predictions about what is next in the post-release content. I think the devs have given us more than enough evidence about what to expect, but that doesn't mean I think the story makes a whole lot of sense. I'd rather they forwent all further story content and just dropped another twelve characters (giving us simply the moveset, default model and CaS parts) whether those characters fit in the current narrative/timeframe or not.* But I don't think that's going to happen.

*Hell, I'd stand up and slow clap them if they just added another fifteen movesets and didn't even bother with the default characters, Devil Jin style.

 

[Klimat]

I see no contradiction whatsoever. For starters, I expressly said that, whether I think its a waste of resources and detrimental to our roster hopes or not, I do believe it probable that non-guest DLC characters will indeed get soul chronicles.

You said you thought there might or might not be DLC Soul Chronicles and we couldn't tell for sure at all, so it was all in the air. With all due respect, this kind of double thinking does not mix with you at the same breath saying without a shadow of a doubt that SC6 DLC roster IS (not most probably might be, but IS) driven by the story. It's either driven by the story and we will have more Soul Chronicles, either story is not of concern when it comes to DLCs and there won't be additional Soul Chronicles in SC6. It's one or the other, you can't have both. Even theoretically.

Main drivers to include a character in a fighting game are: 1). Popularity, 2). An absolute need to fill a certain gameplay archetype, 3). Story relevance.

I believe you are massively oversimplifying the complexity of design and balance variables in fighting games here. If "we only need one of that general sort" were the defining philosophy of developers in this genre, the rosters for the last five Soul Calibur/Project Soul games (and for that matter, pretty much every other fighter made in the last twenty years) would look drastically different from what actually occurs.

I think you misunderstood what I meant to say.
Certainly I didn't mean to say two characters having similar styles is an automatic death sentence to one of said characters. I just meant to say a character having a unique style/weapon is a huge plus and in case a character doesn't have this advantage, there are other aspects to consider (namely popularity and story relevance). Therefore Li Long gets 3 out of 3 on a scale of irrelevance. It's not one factor, but a combination of multiple reasons.

I'm simply making observations about what I think the developers have decided to focus upon and what that would seem to suggest for realistic predictions about what is next in the post-release content. I think the devs have given us more than enough evidence about what to expect...

Like that one time when Okubo spelled out SC4 and even SC5 characters were possible for DLCs?

 

[DanteSC3]

@Rusted Blade What I’m getting at, here, is that while SoulCalibur VI is a retelling of the first SoulCalibur, with a lot of extra content listed before and after the main plot points, fully fleshed out, if it should happen to follow that SoulCalibur VII picks up the same trend, and is a retelling of SoulCalibur II, with a lot of extra content to flesh it out, combined with the fact SoulCalibur III and SoulCalibur IV both take place within the same year, then SoulCalibur VII would essentially be SoulCalibur II-IV, which is in the era of not dropping characters.

If we’re keeping the original lore, and they’re so dead-set on bringing back all the SoulCalibur III Arcade Edition cast, as you and I both believe, it does seem contradictory to me, that they would turn around and cut characters out for the next game to have then repurchased again. I know, modern gaming market and all, but if the characters are already made, then tweaking them to the next game is not on the same level as having to make them again from scratch.

A lot of assets are being reused from SoulCalibur IV and SoulCalibur V, and I don’t think anyone can deny this. SoulCalibur VI is systemically very similar to those two games, and so it makes sense to pull so directly from those two games. SoulCalibur III is quite a different world, though, which is why bringing back Hwang and Li Long, the only two who were truly cut going into SoulCalibur IV, will take a significantly higher degree of work.

Why do that work just to delete them again for the next game? I’m aware that they’ve already done this once, when they only kept Amy going in to SoulCalibur IV, but I truly believe that they’re doing their best to not repeat past mistakes, which I wholeheartedly believe that cutting Hwang and Li Long from SoulCalibur IV was one of their biggest blunders.

@Klimat I know what you’re saying and I can even agree with what you’re saying, that the DLC, if they do not have story, could potentially be out of context, timeline, and even canon, but I believe if Cassandra and Amy do get Soul Chronicle stories, then the expectation is sealed that every character added does have to fit the narrative, and the SoulCalibur IV and SoulCalibur V characters become practically nonviable. I don’t take that answer by Okubo as anything more than “I’m not confirming nor denying anything.”, especially with regards to Kayane, who had a habit of grilling him about 2B, who he knew was going to be in the game, but couldn’t say it. It’s an oddly specific quote, I’ll grant you, but there are also quotes that you can pull saying the other side, that it’s a retelling of the original era, that “reboot” was the wrong word after all, and so on and so on. We have evidence of a wide range, but we have a bit more evidence that we’re staying in the past, primarily, in my opinion.

It will become clear when the DLC starts coming out again. Until then, we can only speculate.

 

[Klimat]

I know what you’re saying and I can even agree with what you’re saying, that the DLC, if they do not have story, could potentially be out of context, timeline, and even canon, but I believe if Cassandra and Amy do get Soul Chronicle stories, then the expectation is sealed that every character added does have to fit the narrative, and the SoulCalibur IV and SoulCalibur V characters become practically nonviable.

Hilde is a SC4 character and she is perfectly viable, because her backstory mentioned in SC4 is actually all about SC1 timeline. And it's an interesting backstory as far as SoulCalibur stories go.

 

[Rusted Blade]

You said you thought there might or might not be DLC Soul Chronicles and we couldn't tell for sure at all, so it was all in the air. With all due respect, this kind of double thinking does not mix with you at the same breath saying without a shadow of a doubt that SC6 DLC roster IS (not most probably might be, but IS) driven by the story. It's either driven by the story and we will have more Soul Chronicles, either story is not of concern when it comes to DLCs and there won't be additional Soul Chronicles in SC6. It's one or the other, you can't have both. Even theoretically.

Hmm, I think you might want to take a second look at what I sad:

"I see no contradiction whatsoever. For starters, I expressly said that, whether I think its a waste of resources and detrimental to our roster hopes or not, I do believe it probable that non-guest DLC characters will indeed get soul chronicles. I mentioned the fact that we don't know this for sure merely for the sake of a complete analysis. Beyond that, even if there are no soul chronicles for the DLC character, I believe it's still more likely than not that the devs will select mostly or entirely "classic" characters for the sake of tonal consistency with the rest of the product.​

​

Also, I've never talked about any of this in terms of story "potential"; for the purposes of engineering the kind of generic story fodder that defines every last second of the plot in this game, I'm quite certain that Li Long and Hilde have exactly the same amount of "potential". Again, the devs can easily engineer just as many random encounters with other main characters and random bandit pummelings as is necessary to justify a soul chronicle, whoever is chosen. What I believe is the constraining factor, is the devs' demonstrated interest in consistency with past storylines that cover these same events."​

​

Again, I am explictly saying I suspect there will be Soul Chronicles; I merely think that represents misplaced resources. I only mention that we don't know for certain because the 2B situation has left at least some small amount of doubt as to that. Second, even if there are no Soul Chronicles, that's not case closed on the thematics of SCVI creating a priority on earlier characters vs. later ones. There would still be a propensity to go with the "classic" characters for this entry, regardless of whether they get soul chronicles that have to strictly conform to the rest of the plot.

Certainly I didn't mean to say two characters having similar styles is an automatic death sentence to one of said characters. I just meant to say a character having a unique style/weapon is a huge plus and in case a character doesn't have this advantage, there are other aspects to consider (namely popularity and story relevance).

We are in agreement here, but I just don't think, taking the context of the game as it is established so far, that Hilde being more unique is going to let her carry the day and gain entry in season two. It's not impossible, but my best guess is that she is not planned at this time, given the overall pattern of evidence as best I can read it.

Like that one time when Okubo spelled out SC4 and even SC5 characters were possible for DLCs?

Well, we've been over that part before and I don't see the need to re-debate it at length, but suffice it to say, a dev not boxing themselves in for the sake of answering a random question in and interview is pretty much the standard response. "We haven't ruled that out." is the answer to 95% of all broadly speculative questions in these situations. However, at no point has any member of the development team said anything affirmative to suggest that are planning SCIV/SCV characters. Every character that has been released, announced for release, hinted at, or even had a cameo in the background of the product as it stands thus far comes from before SCIV. That's the affirmative evidence that we do have. Okubo refusing to rule anythign out in the middle of last year is poor support for the proposition that such characters are likely, imo.

 

[Rusted Blade]

If we’re keeping the original lore, and they’re so dead-set on bringing back all the SoulCalibur III Arcade Edition cast, as you and I both believe, it does seem contradictory to me, that they would turn around and cut characters out for the next game to have then repurchased again. I know, modern gaming market and all, but if the characters are already made, then tweaking them to the next game is not on the same level as having to make them again from scratch.

Well, I should be clear about one thing: I don't think they are trying explicitly to reconstruct the SCIII:AE cast as a first-order priority. I think that was a consequence of their trying to essentially retell parts of the story which were first revealed in stories of SE, SCI, SCII, and SCIII. SCIII cast its net wide in terms of its roster, bringing back pretty much every non-guest who had featured in a game up until that point (that being a different day and age where bigger rosters were easier--though clearly, even then, the console version of the game suffered in terms of balance, polish, and buggines as a consequence of trying to be too big). So it's merely a consequence of a similar focus that I think the SCVI roster is ultimately going to be such a close match to the SCIII:AE roster, not an objective the team necessarily set out with.

As to carrying the characters and their assets over into the next game, this isn't really as easy as it may sound. For one, SCVII will certainly be on a new generation of console and in a new engine. And even when 3D fighters are made in the same engine, porting over characters is no simple affair, especially if you wish to update them. It usually makes more sense to start from scratch in terms of the animations, hitboxes, and so forth (and, as this will be a new generation of hardware and software, even the models will need to be re-done). And this is roughly for the best because, even though it means the development team has to do more work to reconstitute assets and thus there will be less characters overall (which I admit is a bummer for those of us who want as many classic styles as possible), it keeps the design from becoming stale, by allowing continued evolution of new mechanics that would otherwise be difficult or impossible if they had to work only with the old assets.

 

[Klimat]

As to carrying the characters and their assets over into the next game, this isn't really as easy as it may sound. For one, SCVII will certainly be on a new generation of console with and in a new engine.

I'm pretty sure it will be Unreal Engine 4 once again, SC6 is not even close to taking full advantage of it.

Models and rigs would be all new of cause, or at least they better be.
That is IF SC7 indeed ends up being a next gen game, which might or might not be the case.

And even when 3D fighters are made in the same engine, porting over characters is no simple affair, especially if you wish to update them. It usually makes more sense to start from scratch in terms of the animations, hitboxes, and so forth...

SC4, 5 and 6 all reused assets.

 

[Rusted Blade]

I'm pretty sure it will be Unreal Engine 4 once again, SC6 is not even close to taking full advantage of it.

Certainly not by any means impossible, but I'd still say just this side of unlikely. The average length between games in this franchise has increased with every single subsequent entry since SCI; at a minimum, I believe we should be anticipating a six year wait and the engine will likely be superseded by then. Still, it all depends on how early the game goes into development. Also, as I noted when first commenting on the likelihood of a full roster import, even if it is the same engine, it's not a particularly simple task to import all of the assets from one game's build into another's.

That is IF SC7 indeed ends up being a next gen game, which might or might not be the case.

SCVII would need to be in production now in order to be likely to land this generation (the next gen consoles are already deep into their design phase and some are expected to enter initial manufacture within the next two years). If Namco follows it's long-standing propensity for shifting its development staff between projects, the next Tekken will be developed and completed well before they begin work on the next Soul Calibur. And the next Tekken is not even in the design phase at this point, from all indications, as Namco's staff for both of these teams (who are shared somewhat in common) are presently working to crank out serailized content for the most recent entries in both series.

The old (presently current) generation of machines will hang around for a couple of years of course, but Namco has never released a fighter on multiple generations of hardware contemporaneously. As surely as the sun will rise in the east tomorrow, I can assure that SCVII will be a next gen game. Nor will it even be early in the next generation, for that matter: only certain publishers target certain properties for an early generation release (most prefer to wait for an install base and to allow their development teams to have deeper experience with the new development tools), and Namco has never, not once, released a Soul Calibur game within the first two and half years of a new console being released. Take a seat, friends: it's going to be a wait.

SC4, 5 and 6 all reused assets.

Yup, but mostly equipment models and other simple object files (typically generated in file formats that can be transferred between engines and third-party renderers easily enough) and audio assets, which translate relatively easily as game assets go. The actual movesets (comprised of hitbox data, wireframe animations, and rendered models, visual effects, and numerous other components) which are the heart of the character builds Dante was talking about are, by neccesity, rebuilt for every game--though of course the development team will have template data from previous games to work with.

 

[DanteSC3]

I don't think we'll have to wait nearly as long for the next game, possibly within three to four years. The long wait for SoulCalibur VI wasn't due to development, but due to how poorly SoulCalibur V was handled and received because of how badly it was handled.

@Klimat Hilde is such a grey area, though. I know she's mentioned in Libra of Soul, but the issue is, if anything, that she is not herself on the battlefield, and doesn't set out until Algol is awakened. Yes, she could come out early, but with as closely as they're following the original story, I don't believe that they would change this detail. If we weren't this close to having the full SoulCalibur III: Arcade Edition roster, assuming Rock/<blank>/Yun-seong/Setsuka/Aeon/Hwang is accurate, I would push a little harder for Hilde, but Li Long being the only one left out would sting, I think. It's true (see my previous post) that Li Long didn't originally make it into SoulCalibur I, so if SoulCalibur VI really is SoulCalibur I at its core, it could be that he is the only one left out, but... I don't know. It's a toss-up, but I lean towards Li Long, personally. The good news is that we'll know sooner rather than later, assuming Sectus's information is good that Rock/Yell will come out first, then Star/Snow, then Reptile/Yellow, released in pairs.

@Rusted Blade I know that you're not expecting the characters because of the roster being SoulCalibur III: Arcade Edition, and neither am I, really, but that is the reality of the situation that we would be getting. It's the simplest way to refer to the roster, instead of just naming characters, is why I said it that way, not implying your reasoning at all. We are in agreement with who the six are, is all I was saying. And if we do get the SoulCalibur III: Arcade Edition roster, it would be a shame if we dropped people. I don't want a repeat of SoulCalibur IV, where we lose Hwang and Li Long, after going so far as to get them back. There isn't really anyone in the roster from SoulCalibur III: Arcade Edition that I feel like deserves to be dropped.

 

[RagingGhost]

@AMillionHP Losing characters wasn't really a thing to a significant degree until SoulCalibur V, that's why:

From SoulBlade to SoulCalibur: Li Long
From SoulCalibur to SoulCalibur II: (technically) Aeon, Hwang, and Rock, but they had generics, and Siegfried, but he was literally Nightmare
From SoulCalibur II to SoulCalibur III: Necrid, if he even really counts
From SoulCalibur III to SoulCalibur IV: Hwang and Li Long
From SoulCalibur IV to SoulCalibur V: (technically) Amy, because Viola, but definitely Cassandra, Rock, Seong Mi-na, Setsuka, Sophitia, Talim, Taki, Xianghua, Yun-seong, and Zasalamel
From SoulCalibur V to SoulCalibur VI: Algol, Dampierre, Hilde, Viola, Z.W.E.I., and the kids, but the kids literally don't exist yet

If they could do it from the beginning to SoulCalibur IV without losing many characters, then they could do it again going forward from SoulCalibur VI.
It's bizarre to assume/suspect that losing a significant number of characters is a necessity for the next game in the series.

Assuming they'd find ways to keep the cast as long as possible. And, of course, that's assuming that some characters will be in. For all we know, we wouldn't get a rep from Japan in a Soul game set at a time where Japan's closed doors policy (sakoku) was ongoing.

 

[Rusted Blade]

I don't think we'll have to wait nearly as long for the next game, possibly within three to four years. The long wait for SoulCalibur VI wasn't due to development, but due to how poorly SoulCalibur V was handled and received because of how badly it was handled.

@Klimat Hilde is such a grey area, though. I know she's mentioned in Libra of Soul, but the issue is, if anything, that she is not herself on the battlefield, and doesn't set out until Algol is awakened. Yes, she could come out early, but with as closely as they're following the original story, I don't believe that they would change this detail. If we weren't this close to having the full SoulCalibur III: Arcade Edition roster, assuming Rock/<blank>/Yun-seong/Setsuka/Aeon/Hwang is accurate, I would push a little harder for Hilde, but Li Long being the only one left out would sting, I think. It's true (see my previous post) that Li Long didn't originally make it into SoulCalibur I, so if SoulCalibur VI really is SoulCalibur I at its core, it could be that he is the only one left out, but... I don't know. It's a toss-up, but I lean towards Li Long, personally. The good news is that we'll know sooner rather than later, assuming Sectus's information is good that Rock/Yell will come out first, then Star/Snow, then Reptile/Yellow, released in pairs.

@Rusted Blade I know that you're not expecting the characters because of the roster being SoulCalibur III: Arcade Edition, and neither am I, really, but that is the reality of the situation that we would be getting. It's the simplest way to refer to the roster, instead of just naming characters, is why I said it that way, not implying your reasoning at all. We are in agreement with who the six are, is all I was saying. And if we do get the SoulCalibur III: Arcade Edition roster, it would be a shame if we dropped people. I don't want a repeat of SoulCalibur IV, where we lose Hwang and Li Long, after going so far as to get them back. There isn't really anyone in the roster from SoulCalibur III: Arcade Edition that I feel like deserves to be dropped.

The long wait for SoulCalibur VI wasn't due to development, but due to how poorly SoulCalibur V was handled and received because of how badly it was handled.

Well the poor reception of V certainly didn't do it any favours, but as I noted before, the wait between franchise entries has grown longer after each subsequent installment--consistently, for more than twenty years. That's actually a trend that is is dominant. bordering on universal, throughout the industry, but really pronounced with Soul Calibur because of the way Namco shares its staff between its development teams, with Tekken and Soul Calibur in particular upscaling and downscaling their teams depending on where the other is in the development process, because of the shared staff, which often includes key personnel such as senior producers and directors.

Now, I would expect that after the next wave of promised content for both games, that division of BNSI will be transitioning hard into the next Tekken, because that's a cash cow and I'm sure they want it out within the next three years (Tekken 7 was 2015 and though it seems as if the serialized content is keeping that gravy train running, anything much beyond five years between Tekken games is going to be no good for the brand). Still, we're talking on an order of two and a half and three years (absolute minimum, I would say) before a design team is even fully constituted for Soul Calibur VII. Realistically, it could be much longer. And I for one really hope they utilize a development phase closer to VI's in length, as opposed to V's, because we can all see the difference in quality there. So I'd say three or four years is a little too optimistic, I'm afraid. If it's less than five, I'd be very, very surprised.

 

[Klimat]

The average length between games in this franchise has increased with every single subsequent entry since SCI; at a minimum, I believe we should be anticipating a six year wait and the engine will likely be superseded by then.

First SC3 flopped, then SC4 was supposed to be the last game in the series, then SC5 royally screwed up everything for everyone, so that Project Soul for years could not figure out what to do next, wasting time on Lost Swords and presumably going as far as developing a version of SC6 that went nowhere and had to be scrapped. Only when Okubo joined the team things finally get off the ground.
Now as far as the future of the franchise go, things are actually as clear as they can be. SC7 will most probably be a joined remake of SC2 and SC3, basics of the story are already written, base roster is easily predictable, also SC6 created a successful template on how to tackle story modes with Soul Chronicle and Libra of Soul as well as a successful gameplay template. And they have Okubo as the head of the team who's job is to plan ahead and manage SoulCalibur franchise for years and years to come.

SCVII would need to be in production now in order to be likely to land this generation (the next gen consoles are already deep into their design phase and some are expected to enter initial manufacture within the next two years).

It can be released on multiple generations on consoles + PC for maximum profits. If Konami were able to release MGSV as a multi-generational title one year after PS4 launched, Bamco should be able to do similar things. Not to mentioned how PS5 is rumored to be fully backwards compatible with PS4, same as the next Xbox is rumored to be backwards compatible with Xbox One. Consoles become more and more like PCs where the line between generations is not all that clear any more with things like PS 4 Pro and Xbox One X.

The old (presently current) generation of machines will hang around for a couple of years of course, but Namco has never released a fighter on multiple generations of hardware contemporaneously.

They also never released a Tekken or a SoulCalibur game on PC... until recently they did. Things change.

If Namco follows it's long-standing propensity for shifting its development staff between projects, the next Tekken will be developed and completed well before they begin work on the next Soul Calibur. And the next Tekken is not even in the design phase at this point, from all indications, as Namco's staff for both of these teams (who are shared somewhat in common) are presently working to crank out serailized content for the most recent entries in both series.

If I'm not mistaken, only the core of SC6 team was composed of Bamco employees, while most of the trivial work has been outsourced to another company, I'm pretty sure Sectus mentioned it in one of his podcasts. So I don't think running out of people to develop SC7 is gonna be a problem.

The actual movesets (comprised of hitbox data, wireframe animations, and rendered models, visual effects, and numerous other components) which are the heart of the character builds Dante was talking about are, by neccesity, rebuilt for every game--though of course the development team will have template data from previous games to work with.

That's factually incorrect. Different animations have been reused basically throughout all of SC series. During SC6 pre-release promotion days people here on 8wayrun were able to spot an animation bug in one of Sophitia's attacks dating as far back as SC2. If a specific animation mistake was able to survive for 5 games in a row, it's a clear giveaway the animation itself has been reused as is for game after game after game untouched. As for model reuse, just look as SC4 CaS compared to SC6 CaS, the models are the same.

 

[Rusted Blade]

First SC3 flopped, then SC4 was supposed to be the last game in the series, then SC5 royally screwed up everything for everyone, so that Project Soul for years could not figure out what to do next, wasting time on Lost Swords and presumably going as far as developing a version of SC6 that went nowhere and had to be scrapped. Only when Okubo joined the team things finally get off the ground.
Now as far as the future of the franchise go, things are actually as clear as they can be. SC7 will most probably be a joined remake of SC2 and SC3, basics of the story are already written, base roster is easily predictable, also SC6 created a successful template on how to tackle story modes with Soul Chronicle and Libra of Soul as well as a successful gameplay template. And they have Okubo as the head of the team who's job is to plan ahead and manage SoulCalibur franchise for years and years to come.

It can be released on multiple generations on consoles + PC for maximum profits. If Konami were able to release MGSV as a multi-generational title one year after PS4 launched, Bamco should be able to do similar things. Not to mentioned how PS5 is rumored to be fully backwards compatible with PS4, same as the next Xbox is rumored to be backwards compatible with Xbox One. Consoles become more and more like PCs where the line between generations is not all that clear any more with things like PS 4 Pro and Xbox One X.

They also never released a Tekken or a SoulCalibur game on PC... until recently they did. Things change.

If I'm not mistaken, only the core of SC6 team was composed of Bamco employees, while most of the trivial work has been outsourced to another company, I'm pretty sure Sectus mentioned it in one of his podcasts. So I don't think running out of people to develop SC7 is gonna be a problem.

Well, I don't want to be rude, man, but that sounds like a whooole lot of wishful thinking-based rationalization and speculation (regarding internal business practices and technical developments) about how things could, in an ideal world, change, vs. decades of established practice by this company and present industry norms running in the opposite direction to your assumptions. I mean, with all sincerity and good will, here's to you being correct, because obviously as a hyper fan I don't want to wait as long as I'm inclined to believe we will be (so it's cause for celebration if I am wrong) but let's just say I won't be holding my breath for a 2022 release.

Alas, unlike the DLC characters, this is not anything we will know anytime soon, so we cannot have a friendly bet on this one. ;) And speaking of that bet, I'm looking pretty good, I think. Worst case scenario for me at this point, I think: we tie on our picks. Edit: @Klimat, woops, nevermind, my mistake, you had Setsuka picked, and she looks likely to be a lock as well. Looks like "YELL" will be for all the marbles! So one of us really is going to have the last word on that debate! I still like my chances though. How does.....Li Long sound for your month of enforced maining? :D

That's factually incorrect. Different animations have been reused basically throughout all of SC series. During SC6 pre-release promotion days people here on 8wayrun were able to spot an animation bug in one of Sophitia's attacks dating as far back as SC2. If a specific animation mistake was able to survive for 5 games in a row, it's a clear giveaway the animation itself has been reused as is for game after game after game untouched. As for model reuse, just look as SC4 CaS compared to SC6 CaS, the models are the same.

I'd have to know more technical details about this supposed running bug (could I impose upon you for a link?) to provide for what exactly may have been going on there; it's possible that some timing values were preserved across successive versions of the same move, but that is not the same thing as the animation itself having been in some fashion "imported" across successive generations. We're talking about a span of games created with very different variations of software operating on entirely different architecture. These movesets do in fact have to be reconstituted for new generations of engines and hardware; they are not just a simple discreet file which can be plucked out, converted, and dropped into the engine (well, actually, sometimes they can be, but not like that, across such divergent platforms over such a period of time). Would that this was not necessary--we'd get games a lot faster and they'd just get increasingly larger.

 

[Klimat]

So one of us really is going to have the last word on that debate! I still like my chances though. How does.....Li Long sound for your month of enforced maining? :D

Right now part of me wishes YELL is not Hilde, but actually Dampierre, just to have the best, most wonderful new main for you !

I'd have to know more technical details about this supposed running bug (could I impose upon you for a link?) to provide for what exactly may have been going on there; it's possible that some timing values were preserved across successive versions of the same move, but that is not the same thing as the animation itself...

Now I have no idea what you are talking about. Animations are animations are animations. On that note I would also love to ask you what the hell wireframe animations are? Is that another way to call shape keys? Because I'm pretty sure all SoulCalibur character animations are skeletal animations. Like in 99% of other 3D games of that era. Are you sure you understand how 3D model animations actually work?
Also here is a link explaining Sophitia's animations bug getting ported all the way across SC2-6.

We're talking about a span of games created with very different variations of software operating on entirely different architecture. These movesets do in fact have to be reconstituted for new generations of engines and hardware; they are not just a simple discreet file which can be plucked out, converted, and dropped into the engine (well, actually, sometimes they can be, but not like that, across such divergent platforms over such a period of time).

Animations can and are ported across engines and generations. Tell me what's easier, to tell a programmer guy to create a converter to port over old animations into the new engine or to recreate thousands and thousands of animations manually from scratch every time? I think the answer is obvious.

 

[Ukkesh]

Dear god this place is turning into april 201, everyone seems to be speculating and flaming each other. Can we like cut down on this? Almost any new character and DLC pack is good right? we're all fans here, no need to yell (hehe) at each other about what character codenamed after a verb is going to be. Maybe it's just going to be easier to just sit back and see how everything turns out? Otherwise, we're gonna end up getting this thread locked down just like the other thread. -_-

 

[mokamoka827]

snip

Honestly, I don't think Hilde's addition would change anything, continuity-wise. Sure, she didn't set out until Algol awakened, but Talim's entire story in SC6 is set before she goes off on her own journey, so there's no reason they can't do the same for Hilde. I very much doubt Hilde didn't have any combat experience prior to SC4, so I think writing in some fights in a short story for her is entirely doable without changing much of her overall story.

And this is assuming the DLC characters even get Soul Chronicle stories themselves. If they don't, then there's especially no harm in Hilde's possible inclusion.

 

[RagingGhost]

Honestly, I don't think Hilde's addition would change anything, continuity-wise. Sure, she didn't set out until Algol awakened, but Talim's entire story in SC6 is set before she goes off on her own journey, so there's no reason they can't do the same for Hilde. I very much doubt Hilde didn't have any combat experience prior to SC4, so I think writing in some fights in a short story for her is entirely doable without changing much of her overall story.

And this is assuming the DLC characters even get Soul Chronicle stories themselves. If they don't, then there's especially no harm in Hilde's possible inclusion.

Considering that 2B didn't have a Soul Chronicle, why would the DLC characters have one?