Soulcalibur VI DLC Discussion Thread

sytus

[13] Hero
I think Ivy would be the most likely candidate for Samsho seeing as she's immortal at this point and one of the most iconic characters in the series.
 

Rusted Blade

[10] Knight
I'd honestly only want to see Shura back if they gave her a moveset to use all four of her swords.
I'm pretty sure we have even less chance of seeing the SCIV bonus characters again than we do of seeing even the SCIII bonus characters, since the former represent the worst of both worlds from a design perspective: they have no cherished moveset generate a significant fan demand to bring them back and yet were also based on commissioned art work, meaning their image would probably have to be licensed again--there are ways in which this can be contracted around, but given that each of the guest artists who contributed a design to the SCIV bonus roster was already an established name in anime or manga, I'm going to guess the situation is similar to Necrid: Namco owns the character but not the original artwork/image rights, making for just enough complication in the licensing that PS is not likely to bring to re-use them.

All of that said, if anyone should be brought back, it's Kamikirimusi! Hell, you can almost make her with CaS assets as is: if only Nightmare had as one of his weapons a massive kanabo/cudgel, which would work just fine with the base character and many CaS designs alike. This actually raises another DLC topic that I've actually been giving a bit of thought to, of late: since it seems we have continuing support for at least one more season, I really wouldn't mind seeing a couple of weapons packs thrown into the DLC mix. There are so many classic weapons from throughout the series that are absent this go-around; the only reason I think it hasn't been a source of more complaint is that there are other areas that have so far been more of a focus for the game's incompleteness. But honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing 2-3 more weapons/weaponsets per style. I mean, that's definitely more than we can expect to get, but one more per moveset is maybe feasible, particularly if support holds to a third season (obviously highly unlikely in itself).
 

Nyte

Fu-ma's Shadow
Oh and by the way, I noticed that the SoulCalibur Twitter page is following the Samurai Shodown Twitter and has essentially decided to #EmbraceDeath. It would be odd for SoulCalibur to be following Samurai Showdown in Twitter since there are no known collabs between the two franchises so expect either a Samurai Shodown guest character for Season Pass 2 or a SoulCalibur DLC guest character for the upcoming Samurai Shodown.

If it's a SoulCalibur guest character in Samurai Showdown, I would personally like to see Yoshimitsu to represent both Tekken and SoulCalibur or Nightmare with the iconic Soul Edge. It would probably be Mitsurugi or Taki though.
I just looked at the Twitter and couldn't find anything related to Samurai Shodown. Am I missing something?

Though I'd love Taki in that game, damn.
 

sytus

[13] Hero
Fun Fact: Daishi Odashima stated that Shura was one of the most requested female characters to return in SC 5, being the first character to be disconfirmed by him on his Twitter.
Shura is a great design but she needs her own moveset that doesn't take anything from Cervantes for her to come back properly. In fact SC7 should bring Shura back as just that. Even though she wouldn't be a truly new character she would be new mechanically which is what really matters and you have the bonus of her being popular already.
 

Nyte

Fu-ma's Shadow
I doubt Shura will return. I think Hiroya Oku owns the rights to her and they would have to negotiate to get her in, and it would cost money, especially if she's to be a regular. A little too much trouble when they could just create their own characters without such hassle.

At best, I think they'll make an expy of her.
 

Ukkesh

[11] Champion
I doubt Shura will return. I think Hiroya Oku owns the rights to her and they would have to negotiate to get her in, and it would cost money, especially if she's to be a regular. A little too much trouble when they could just create their own characters without such hassle.

At best, I think they'll make an expy of her.
True, but the arcane Knight and the hentai armors made it in. I'm not sure if this counts, but Ashlotte is present in lore. Though I'm not exactly savvy with copyright laws, does a mention count, I'm not really sure of Ito owns Ashlotte's name or just design. Either way I still doubt we'll get any of the Sciv guests. Shira would be the most likely though.
 

Nyte

Fu-ma's Shadow
True, but the arcane Knight and the hentai armors made it in. I'm not sure if this counts, but Ashlotte is present in lore. Though I'm not exactly savvy with copyright laws, does a mention count, I'm not really sure of Ito owns Ashlotte's name or just design. Either way I still doubt we'll get any of the Sciv guests. Shira would be the most likely though.
I think customization pieces are in a different boat. I remember the reason why Necrid never returned was because Todd McFarlane retained the rights.

Also, Ashlotte wasn't mentioned by name in Astaroth's SCV bio. I mean, the obvious implication is that it's her, but they only referred to her as a "mechanical woman". With automatons already existing in the lore, it's entirely possible she could've been substituted for an original character if needed.

That's why I don't think we'll see any third party bonus character promoted to main cast, too many issues to make it happen.
 

Rusted Blade

[10] Knight
@Ukkesh @DanteSC3 @Nyte :

This is a very complicated area of IP law and no one here wants a course, so I'll try to keep it short and sweet. Basically we are talking about two different types of intellectual property here: the rights to the character and the rights to the image submitted by an artist upon which that character is based. It is not an altogether unheard of practice in the games industry to have a respected artist supply such artwork for a new original character and to reserve some rights in that image even though the character itself ends up copyrighted to the commissioning party. In fact, we know this is exactly what happened with Necrid, because the Soul Calibur II title screen tells us as much ('TMP'=Todd McFarlane Productions). This makes for a mixed rights kind of situation that the party with the copyright could try to get around without paying further licensing fees, but it's the type of thing that a smart company just wants to avoid, because the damages for willfully infringing someone else's intellectual property can be ludicrous at times. Basically the conversations is going to go something like this:

Namco legal department: Couldn't you just make a brand new character or use someone we have full rights in?​
Developer: Well, yeah...​
Legal department: Then just do that.​
Developer: ...but we really wanted to bring this guy back.​
Legal department: [is already writing a memo to the VP or executve to whom they both report, about the meeting].​
Developer: Fine.​
Now, if you are Nintendo making Smash Bros. Ultimate, and you have great, comprehensive integrated IP aggreements with all your partners/have your software partners by the short-hairs, you just power through that stuff. But if you're Namco working with a third party you've only partnered with once, you stay clear of any headaches--especially if you are talking about Necrid, who was not exactly a fan favourite to begin with. Now I don't know for a fact that the SCIV bonus characters came about from similar arrangments--it's actually perfectly possible to contract in such a way that the commissioning party owns the resulting character and all of their image free and clear--but I suspect, given the profile of the artists involved, that this is exactly what happened. It would also explain why these characters are sometimes mentioned, but not seen, since.
 
Last edited:

TresDias

[06] Combatant
It's also possible for the party receiving the licensed design (Namco in this case) to have ownership of the character while the original designer retains ownership of the design upon which the character is based.

Under these circumstances, Namco could continue using the name and story of the character, but with a drastically different design -- at which point they probably would choose to just go with designing a new character altogether, especially when the original design is likely a big part of the appeal of that other character anyway.
 

Rusted Blade

[10] Knight
It's also possible for the party receiving the licensed design (Namco in this case) to have ownership of the character while the original designer retains ownership of the design upon which the character is based.

Under these circumstances, Namco could continue using the name and story of the character, but with a drastically different design -- at which point they probably would choose to just go with designing a new character altogether, especially when the original design is likely a big part of the appeal of that other character anyway.
Yup, that's essentially what I meant when I said you can try to work around these issues. But, as you correctly observe, the issue is that you end up doing so much work to avoid the conflict that there's really no reason not to just start again from scratch with a new character and avoid the risk of litigation altogether, especially in today's legal/IP climate, where courts and statutes allow for pretty subsantial damages if there is any hint that you tried to use someone else's IP in an impermissible manner. Even if you do it perfectly, you're still going to be vulnerable to a complaint in a way that your parent company just is not going to be happy with, and even reviewing the original licesnsing documents to try to suss out the situation is a not-insubstantial cost, since that's lawyer work hours. Basically, the only safe way to do it is to enter into another licensing agreement with the artist, which is not a cost the developer is going to want to consider unless the demand really makes it profitable. And Namco doesn't even like to keep using guests in Soulcalibur games that they own outright: other than Yoshimitsu, the Tekken guest characters never return.
 
Last edited:

artard4321

[12] Conqueror
I just looked at the Twitter and couldn't find anything related to Samurai Shodown. Am I missing something?

Though I'd love Taki in that game, damn.
This one is a small banter between Bandai Namco and Samurai Shodown Twitter.

This link shows that Samurai Shodown is following SoulCalibur. I mistook it for being the other way around so there is now less meaning to my point since Samurai Shodown is also following other fighting games.

The developers of Samurai Shodown were also asked if the game will feature guests characters in which the producer jokingly mentioned "I'm waiting, Harada-san!".

Later down the line, Harada made this tweet about Samurai Shodown.

Harada isn't only involved in Tekken, he is promoted as the general manager of Bandai Namco IP and overseers not only Tekken but also the Tales Of, Dark Souls, and the SoulCalibur series. I personally see this as a lot of hints being dropped that would lead to a guest character for one or both of the series.
 

Rusted Blade

[10] Knight
This one is a small banter between Bandai Namco and Samurai Shodown Twitter.

This link shows that Samurai Shodown is following SoulCalibur. I mistook it for being the other way around so there is now less meaning to my point since Samurai Shodown is also following other fighting games.

The developers of Samurai Shodown were also asked if the game will feature guests characters in which the producer jokingly mentioned "I'm waiting, Harada-san!".

Later down the line, Harada made this tweet about Samurai Shodown.

Harada isn't only involved in Tekken, he is promoted as the general manager of Bandai Namco IP and overseers not only Tekken but also the Tales Of, Dark Souls, and the SoulCalibur series. I personally see this as a lot of hints being dropped that would lead to a guest character for one or both of the series.
Fingers crossed; I haven't followed Samurai Showdown in I don't know how long, but the prospect of a guest character would suggest even more continuing support, possibly even beyond season two. I wouldn't say there's anything here thus far that strongly suggests anything in motion at present, but chummy relationships between developers sometimes lead to good things!
 

TresDias

[06] Combatant
They really just need to bring Noctis over. He was more suited to SC than Tekken in the first place, and having whatever assets in place for him for "Tekken 7" should make that easier than starting from the ground.
 

Rusted Blade

[10] Knight
They really just need to bring Noctis over. He was more suited to SC than Tekken in the first place, and having whatever assets in place for him for "Tekken 7" should make that easier than starting from the ground.
This is something they absolutely should have planned to do two years ago, but I'm afraid that ship has long sailed now; I just don't see a licensing agreement for Noctis in a second Namco fighter coming about, and now we have Azwel, the knock-off Noctis (Nocoftis?). I am close to 100% certain that Azwel came about because Project soul's senior devs were frustrated that a character like Noctis was actually licensed for use by Namco, and then stuck into the fighter that, by far, least suited him. He would have been such a good fit for Soulcalibur and would have made an awesome trio with 2B and Geralt. So Project Soul got jealous and made a variation on the theme, but had to make their character substantially different enough not to make the transplant -too- obvious. Unfortunately, the result was Azwel, who looks like a former 1950's stage magician now better known as a registered sex offender, with an English voice actor who emotes like he thinks he is a principal actor in the filming of the original Wizard of Oz. I mean, honestly, there have been some missteps in original character designs in the last few games, but has a goofier, lamer character ever been produced by this series? Oh yeah...Groh. And Z..W..E..I.. (I added extra punctuation to demonstrate his name literally can't get more stupid).

Anyway, I got off on a tangent there. Long-story short, not only do I not see Namco buying the rights to Noctis twice, but putting him in Soulcalibur VI alongside Azwel would A) make it pretty obvious that PS decided to take a second bite at that apple already without paying said fees, and B) Hilight what a mediocre job they did when riffing on that theme. In other words, too sticky a situation / nevah gonna happen.
 
Last edited:

TresDias

[06] Combatant
This is something they absolutely should have planned to do two years ago, but I'm afraid that ship has long sailed now; I just don't see a licensing agreement for Noctis in a second Namco fighter coming about, and now we have Azwel, the knock-off Noctis (Nocoftis?). I am close to 100% certaint hat Azwel came about because Project soul's senior devs were frustrated that a character like Noctis was actually licensed for use by Namco, and then stuck into the fighter that, by far, least suited him. He would have been such a good fit for Soulcalibur and would have made an awesome trio with 2B and Geralt. So Project Soul got jealous and made a variation on the theme, but had to make their character substantially different enough not to make the transplant -too- obvious. Unfortunately, the result was Azwel, who looks like a former 1950's stage magician now better known as a registered sex offender, with an English voice actor who emotes like he thinks he is a principal actor in the filming of the original Wizard of Oz. I mean, honestly, there have been some missteps in original character designs in the last few games, but has a goofier, lamer character ever been produced by this series? Oh yeah...Groh. And Z..W..E..I.. (I added extra punctuation to demonstrate his name literally can't get more stupid).

Anyway, I got off on a tangent there. Long-story short, not only do I not see Namco buying the rights to Noctis twice, but putting him in Soulcalibur VI alongside Azwel would A) make it pretty obvious that PS decided to take a second bite at that apple already without paying said fees, and B) Hilight what a mediocre job they did when riffing on that theme. In other words, too sticky a situation / nevah gonna happen.
Fair points, sadly enough.

Now that you shine a light on it like that, it does seem obvious. You're probably right about Azwel's power set being lifted from Noct. For that matter, Azwel's showy gestures and speech mannerisms are highly reminiscent of Ardyn, also from FFXV -- and also an owner of the power to conjure weapons, Ardyn's power signature being red while Noct's is blue ...