Stance study

Belial

Belial

King of Hundred Swords
After a limited testing I've come up with following results
the data is tested on block.

Relic:
6[A]
- RLC A trades with i18
- RLC A+B+K (auto GI) pGI i16

RLC [K]
- RLC [A] trades/clashes with i15 (WS B)
- RLC A+B+K (auto GI) pGI i13 (FC 2A)


33[A]
- RLC [A] ??? (traded with youshi BT B)
- RLC A+B+K (auto GI) ???

MST 6
- RLC A trades with i14
- RLC A+B+K (auto GI) works vs 2A, probably pGI around i12
- you can beat AA by shifting back into MST (B+K)
This is probably the best stance shift mitsurugi has. RLC A will beat anything but AA, if they AA, or try to sit out, shift into MST for punishment/mixups. Might be slightly range dependant.

MST BB
due to the huge backstep on RLC transition here, even near the wall I couldnt find moves that trade. Anyway this is probably his second best stance transition, RLC B will beat out almost anything but high atacks which are easily beaten by shifting back into MST.

Mist
4[A]
- MST B trades with i11
is pretty much destroyed by 2A (can be jumped by MST 8 but not punished), uninterruptible MST 6B on hit.

11B[A]
- MST B trades with

RLC [A]
- MST B trades with

44B
- MST B trades with ???

I am not certain on these, b/c its really hard to test without second player willing to spend a few hours figuring out this stuff. Will update later.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Moderator
  • #3
by the way I forgot a very important thing. 6B+K MST stance transition is extremely good TC. It TC's most A-atacks either high or mid. Its generally a good idea to shift into mst in any kind of advantage. things you can do from there:

if you shift from advantage (+3~+5) normally second A of characters will hit you out of MST, but you can interrupt it with MST B for CH combo. It will also TC stuff like yoshi 3A or even MANJI FIST! (2A will still hit you, lol?) So you can keep your opponents from interrupting you mixups with faster A's thats usually a pain vs characters like Taki/Yoshi/Sophie/X.

transition also aligns you toward opponent so he cannot really step anything.
it also beats GI attempts naturally.

experiment with 6B+K TC basically ANY horizontal MID is subject to TC of this. There is so many examples of moves than can be TC'ed I wont even list them. Slow moves like Asta 44[A] can be 6B+K'ed on _reaction_ for free MST 6B_4B combo.
 
Yeah, agreed on the transition. However, I've actually used 66B+K as a crouch dash to get under the AAs and actually get inside. I didn't realize that MST B can interrupt like that tho. That's awesome :D
 
  • Thread starter
  • Moderator
  • #5
Yeah the way it interrupts actually makes it a viable option in advantage.

if you're backturned towards opponent in mst or rlc stance, pressing 4B+K will turn you around and in relic stance. somehow it seem to only work if you do it during recovery of MST or a move. doing MST 6 will also put you into RLC facing opponent. I'm not sure on details yet.
 
Just want to pitch an idea that I have been implementing and I want some feedback. Outside of close quarters (mid range specifically) I have been experimenting with the relic stance. From mid range, my opponents are aware that my main attack and defensive tactic respectively is the RLC B and the RLC mid parry. The people that I play usually rush in with standard (AA's) or other horizontal attacks at just the right distance where RLC A cannot counterstrike. What I've done, is given enough space, and depending on the opposing player (character), I cancel out of relic and into b:a. The transition isn't the smoothest but it has a work on occasions. Basically, what I implying is that by positioning myself at a certain distance in RLC, I'm trying to bait the opponent to attack linearly. {On the flip side, if the rush in attack is vertical, I just use RLC B or parry.} Any feedback/suggestions is welcomed regarding to my tactic. I still experimenting other options as well.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Moderator
  • #7
If your opponent is atacking with high atacks at far range - most of the high atacks will wiff against RLC, but if you want to play it safe press B+K to shift into MST, it 100% TC's and gives free damage
 
Belial said:
If your opponent is atacking with high atacks at far range - most of the high atacks will wiff against RLC, but if you want to play it safe press B+K to shift into MST, it 100% TC's and gives free damage
Click to expand...

I also (against predictable long traveling horizontals) duck with relic and counter with RLC A. Luck plays a big role in that, for me that is. :) It's actually pretty cool when successful.

But I will continue to cancel out of RLC into standard moves along with your suggestion of transitioning into MST. Thanks again.

On a side note, I wish b:a was part of mitsu's RLC. I think that move will look even cooler if the sword were initially sheathed.
 
Syrpiektre said:
Yeah, agreed on the transition. However, I've actually used 66B+K as a crouch dash to get under the AAs and actually get inside. I didn't realize that MST B can interrupt like that tho. That's awesome :D
Click to expand...

yeah and that can sometimes throw people off you can come with a grab or a attack they really won't know what your coming with unless the person is smart but it can even outsmart the good players plus you can use that stance to get to the player faster like on combo i like is 6 B+K 66 B Hold to go to relic that throws them in them in the air time it right hit X Hold Then BB, 2 K,B this combo is crazy but it takes alot of damage this is one of my custom combo and I should not be telling you this lol but i also want to be helpful lol
 
xman31 said:
yeah and that can sometimes throw people off you can come with a grab or a attack they really won't know what your coming with unless the person is smart but it can even outsmart the good players plus you can use that stance to get to the player faster like on combo i like is 6 B+K 66 B Hold to go to relic that throws them in them in the air time it right hit X Hold Then BB, 2 K,B this combo is crazy but it takes alot of damage this is one of my custom combo and I should not be telling you this lol but i also want to be helpful lol
Click to expand...

If your opponent uses air control, you wont be able to land 2k,b after b,b. But if they dont, more power to you! lol
 
there's alot of ways to hit you opponent im not going to give all my Strategy's out lol
 
Here's my knowlegde on mitsu's stance transition.

ALL of mitsu stance transition are RANGE dependent. The ideal way to use move like 6[A] or 4[A] are at sword tip range. You will be able to execute your stance attack much earlier if you use them at sword tip range.

For example:

VS amy,

If you use 4[A] at close range then Mist B,B,B. Amy block your 4[A] then 6B,B. Your first Mist B will crash with amy 6B, but you will get hit by amy's second B.

But if you use 4[A] at sword tip range then Mist B,B,B. If Amy attack with 6B,B after blocking your 4[A], you will score a counter hit. (This show that your Mist B come out faster if 4[A] is done at sword tip)

Also by doing 4[A] at sword tip range, pretty much most of the 2A will not be able to hit you.

Example 2

6[A] -> relic.

If you do it at close range, you won't have enough frame to auto-gi even regular B,B attacks.

But if you use 6[A] at sword tip range, your opponent block the 6[A] and attack, you will probably be able to auto-GI most character 2A and B.

Another thing I notice is that if you enter Mist using 4[A], then during the transition you buffer 66B. You will get a TC version of the 6B attack. (normal 6B doesn't really TC, but if you buffer 66B during transition, you can get a TC version)

That is all I can think of for now.
 
stuff you guys probably already know:
  • MST (and MST dashing) is an STC that can go under some mids (i.e. Algol's bubbles)
  • MST B is a great interrupter, but loses to fast TC moves (i.e. Sieg's 3B)
  • RLC B steps left, and most of the cast is weak to left step, so use this against BBs!

stuff i tested on block (but not sure about):
  • 11B[A]~MST B trades/clashes w/ i14 (Taki's 3K)
  • RLC [A]~MST B trades/clashes w/ i17 (Taki's 6K/4K)
  • 44B~MST B trades/clashes w/ i16 (Taki's 6B)

also, question:
i was wondering if anybody has a second opinion on where RLC A & MST B is in terms of frame speed. Belial's data is suggesting that RLC A is somewhere around i11, and MST B is somewhere around i6 (wow!).

i'd like to update the stances in the frame data, so i wanna know if this is for sure or not.
 
genver said:
stuff you guys probably already know:
MST (and MST dashing) is an STC that can go under some mids (i.e. Algol's bubbles)
MST B is a great interrupter, but loses to fast TC moves (i.e. Sieg's 3B)
RLC B steps left, and most of the cast is weak to left step, so use this against BBs!



also, question:
i was wondering if anybody has a second opinion on where RLC A & MST B is in terms of speed. Belial's data is suggesting that RLC A is somewhere around i11, and MST B is somewhere around i6 (wow!).

i'd like to update the wiki frame data, so i wanna know if this is for sure or not.
Click to expand...

I don't have the exact frame data... (because moves speed in SC are range dependent, therefore exact frame doesn't exist) But base on my experience, mist B is slower then i6 but still fairly fast (maybe around i10). If you do 4[A] transition at sword tip range then do b,b,b. The first hit will crash with amy 6B. (so all you need to know is that this move pretty much can out speed anything that doesn't TC accept for move that is faster then i11.

As for RlC A, I'm very sure is faster then i11. Because when I use relic A, I can use it on reaction... (meaning I see my opponent do a move, then I react and press A, and still out speed my opponent) This isn't possible even when I'm using a character with i11 A attack... therefore, I'm assume relic A is about i7 or i8 but slower then i4 because it came out slower then relic GI, otherwise there is no way I can counter with relic A on reaction.
 
is the damage from a successful false purification (relic abk, the counter..) influenced by whether your timing was sufficient for a just impact or just parry?

also, are there some moves that can not be caught with false purification.

btw, KS your videos are great. if i may ask, what dvr or recording device do you use?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back