Talim Frames

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raida

[08] Mercenary
say, do WC B:B_WC B,B have the same animation?? cos sometimes i practice the JF and the move happens not to be a netural combo...
 

Dogysamich

[09] Warrior
i've been messin around lookin at stuff, and i think this needs to be updated (and organized imo)

I've found that 44K is safe on guard (or atleast i13 cant punish it, im doing talim v talim training right now).

maybe there's more stuff?
 

shauno

[09] Warrior
Nice job Oof.... thanks for the data. I've been helping transferring Amy data, but I'll try and fill in some Talim blank spots as well.
 

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
hmm.... when both lists combine, we almost have a complete frame data guide!

Thanks for the link.
If I were you I would double check the frame data in the first post of this thread. When I was doing frame data for the Wiki i noticed a lot of inaccuracies there.
 

Dogysamich

[09] Warrior
yeah, i was going through the list of stuff, cause im makin myself a page of stuff i want to do to my talim game.

__

My problem with frames is i dont think i know how to check how far something is -. I mean, i know HOW to do it, but i dont know the right way of saying it's like -13 on g or etc etc.

Basically, if a move gets punished by i13 on guard, is it -13 on guard, or is it more with other things considered?

You see what im saying? Im talking in a circle.
 

shauno

[09] Warrior
If an opponent's i13 move hits you but his i14 move is blocked, then your attack has a -13 recovery.
 

Dogysamich

[09] Warrior
ok, so im not as crazy as i thought.

now, how would i go about testing if something has less than say, 13?

like, stuff that's -8 on block and whatnot.
 

shauno

[09] Warrior
If you know that a move Amy does is -2 on block, do that move and then test to see if Amy's 6B trades with Talim's i13 K. It should, which means her 6B is i11 frames (13-2=11).
 

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
It's always best to test frame data with hit trades/clashes than by block punishing. Since block punishing may not always give you the most accurate results.

Another example Dogysamich, if you were to find a move of Talim's that is -8 on block, (and you don't know it's -8 yet), record Talim doing the move, then doing K right after. Then with the character that your using (I suggest Raph), and using their frame data as a guide, block the first move and then do a move right after. If you interrupt her K then do a slower move, if her K interrupts you then do a faster one. And once a move trades or clashes then you'll have your data. So in this case a i21 would trade with her i13 K, making the first move that Talim did -8 on block.

To find things on hit, what I do is record Talim doing the move, then a slow move right after (something around i20 usually), then test which of your characters fast moves trade with Talim's second move. So if your characters i16 trades with Talim's second i20, then Talim's first move is +4 on hit.

Also another important thing to remember when testing frame data is to never use the preset attacks that are in training mode, which are located in Free Style Settings > 2nd action > Attack. They tend to come out slower than if you manually record the computer doing it. It's better to not even use the 2nd action when testing, just record the move being done right after the other in one shot.
 

shauno

[09] Warrior
Do you have an example? My last two posts represented both methods it seems, but if I can consistently punish a blocked move that is known to recover at -16 frames, then my move was executed in i16 frames (or faster).

I use the clash of a kick vs. my testing attack to verify data for a move's impact frame, but for move recoveries I use the blocking method. Range and attack angles are the only thing that affects the data that way I believe (testing in a corner helps to minimize this).
 

DarkTalant

[08] Mercenary
Its very possible that there are mistakes in this frame data as I only double-checked parts of it.
 

Dogysamich

[09] Warrior
*slap*

*points up*

we already concluded some things. >.>

Might not specifically be mistakes; might just be changes post 1.03.

But i feel better in knowing i wasnt on crack when i went through and found some things different too.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
Hmm, I understand how the frame data stuff works and all that, but could someone explain how this kind of stuff is discovered in the first place? I know Oof explained how to find Talim's frames by using another characters' data as a guide and doing trades and clashes. I'm just curious as to how anyone found this stuff out when there were no character guides to follow...
 

Dullyanna

[10] Knight
I hate to be a whiner, but could somebody clean the first post up into something more readable? That, or fix the wiki, lol.
 

shauno

[09] Warrior
It would be better if you learned how to read the data since players have been doing it this way for years. Especially with the Wiki pages, the format is fine.
 
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