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ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
I know SCV is the big topic of discussion around here lately, but it's still about a year off. So for those of us who still play this game, here's my breakdown of Talim's matchups. My first guide should have gotten you familiar with how to play Talim effectively, so this one will focus on anti-character.
VS. SEONG MINA
Match Rating: 4/6 in favor of Mina
Overview: Mina takes advantage of Talim's biggest problem. Lack of range. Talim has to take gambles whenever she tries to close distance against Mina. When Talim does finally get in, the matchup becomes even, and when Mina is forced to the edge, Talim has the advantage.
Match Strategy: Realize first off, that Mina starts the round with the upper hand. Mina has a moves that can hit Talim from neutral distance before she can attack (ex: 3B). Most people don't attack at the start, but it's good to keep in mind since it means you have to move defensively. Some things to consider...
---> Mina does heavy Soul Gauge (SG) damage, but by stepping/step-guarding, you can negate a lot of that pressure. Guard Mid at range and don't be afraid to duck when in close. You want to keep moving as much as possible. Mina is slow compared to most characters, and her heaviest hitting moves are all steppable to her front side. You want to step at range to that side almost constantly as a lot of her horizontals can also be stepped.
---> Talim out damages Mina in whiff punishes. Use 33A, 33B:6B, or 22B to whiff punish after step.
---> Most of Mina's reliable stepkillers are high (A+B, 22A) or unsafe (A+K, 8A+B). Punish the unsafes as hard as possible. (66A/44AA punishes her 8A+B, and you only get 6K off of her A+K). Duck inside of her 3B launch range to beat the highs. 6AK hits mid/high, so if you get hit while ducking, the 2nd part whiffs granting you a free Rising A punish. This is major because 6AK is Mina's best stepkiller in close.
Mina has 3 moves that you need to look out for as Talim. Her 4A, 7A, and 66A+B.
---> 4A should be obvious, because it's a retreating attack. This means that Talim's options when at advantage are drastically reduced. She's forced to use long-range tech-jump moves to beat it. (66B, 11B, WindSault) It's not hard to react to it once you've started trying to bait it out, but you're still taking a gamble. Because you have to respect this move, a lot of times you lose your advantage. Mina might keep attacking, forcing you to use a fast retaliation or stand guard. This gives her a free retreat.
---> 7A can be just as bad for the same reasons. The differences with this move are, 1) it's a jumping attack, so lows and throws lose. And 2) it catches step to the weak side. Yes, you can step guard, but because it's also a safe retreating move, blocking it does nothing for your position. Blocking it while moving forward is the best case scenario since Mina will have to keep playing defense.
---> 66A+B on block creates a favorable mixup for Mina even though it has very negative frames. An immediate 4A will beat all of Talim's fast options, forcing Talim to risk slow long range moves. Mina's bad frames don't mean much here since using quick attacks will beat Talim's slow moves. So the best course of action in most cases is to back off and do nothing. If a 4A comes, 66B punish it. If it doesn't react accordingly. Keep in mind that this move does good SG damage, and is a block trap off of several knockdown setups. You will face this situation many times a round. If your SG is already blinking red, there's not a lot of hope for you... sorry.
Talim has good evasive moves in close to overwhelm Mina and force her to become predictable. For example, after 66B on block, an immediate 1A+B beats all throws, highs, slow moves, and her annoying 6AK. If she decides to step, swap it out with 33A. If she does a low, use WindSault A+K. Or you could simply GI if she starts using quick attacks. This is especially effective against the edge or wall. Mina has nowhere to run so she has to attack or sidestep.
22K to her weak side or to follow her step is also good. Basically, Talim's panic buttons are better than Mina's, and with her amazing RO game, this can be tough for Mina to get around.
Other Misc. tips:
- You can duck the second hit of her 6B+K and punish with 236B or Rising A+B.
- Try not to let her 2K pokes get to you. A well placed 2B will stop fast followups, WS A+B will beat retreats, 2As, and 2Ks. Or you can just wait it out.
- Try to GI her slower moves if you can.
- If you're up on life and you get separated, just hang back and step around to her weak side. Mina will have to come to you eventually. (This applies to any character really)
VS. AMY
Match Rating: 4/6 in favor of Amy
Overview: Amy does everything Talim can do, just better and safer. Yeah, really... that's it.
Match Strategy: Not nearly as complicated as people would think. Amy wants to fight in close, and this plays right into Talim's gameplan. Amy is very safe on block with her main tools in this matchup, but she is still open to counter attacks if she becomes too predictable.
We know Amy has 2 auto-GIs, (A+B for highs, B+K for mids). Understand that most of the time the B+K one is coming out due to mids being the most common and powerful moves for any character. Fortunately, Talim has some good strong highs (66A, 44AA) that can make Amy lose confidence in B+K, and instead opt for ducking/TCing or using the A+B aGI. Talim also has 11KA, which will beat both aGI options and get you a counter hit knockdown. Learn to bait that mid aGI and use these moves to counter it.
The problems that Talim has in this matchup aren't too severe, but they are important to know. ---> Amy 6BB is a pain for more reasons than you may think. For one, if Talim's BB is blocked, she can't step (or WC I believe) Amy's 6BB and is forced to either block it, or TC. 6BB punishes Talim's 44K, and Rising A also so it's kinda annoying.
---> Talims' hitbox does not allow her to K punish 66A+B on block like other characters can. Not a huge deal, but annoying that this is completely safe. An immediate 1B forces her block (she can't step, GI, or aGI), but she can 6BB that as well. (This is almost never going to happen though since 1B is so fast.)
---> Amy's 44B isn't normally effective, but in this match it can be a nuisance since Talim's forward moving attacks are mostly high. This can be baited and 66B or 236B punished on whiff.
---> Amy is steppable, but you don't want to step at range too much vs her. Her 66A+B tracks one way and her 33B tracks to the other. The risk reward is in Amy's favor there.
---> Lastly, Talim's 8B, BT K behind RO doesn't work properly vs Amy due to small hitbox. This is unfortunate since it really would scare her into not using B+K with Talim's back to the edge. Her FC 3BB into AS B:K doesn't always work properly either, so you should end with AS B+K instead.
On the plus side, Talim's 22K is very good in this match since it avoids linear verticals like 3B, 33B, or 66B as well as her lows. So if you are in a desperate guessing situation, throwing this out to evade is a good option. You can also use setups like BB on block into 1A+B or even iFC 3BB to TC a predicted 6BB retaliation.
---> WC is actually quite decent in this match up close. WC K can beat 6BB or 3B if read right.
---> Another effective move is 44A+B. (NOT 4A+B). Talim's 44A+B does less damage than 4A+B (28 instead of 30) BUT it backsteps quite a bit farther than the latter. This reason alone is why it's useful. At certain close range situations, 44A+B will evade her 2B+K low, the first hit of 6BB and even 3A if timed correctly.
So what you generally wanna do is make Amy uncomfortable starting her offense in close by confusing her with highs and lows and using evasive moves (22K, 44A+B, 1A+B etc) to get around her setups. Stay at about mid range to bait her 44B and 33B and whiff punish as best as possible. Talim does more damage overall than Amy does unless you get mixed up on wakeup.
Other Misc. tips:
- You can step her BT B+K and get a free 236B punish on whiff
- Talim's 22A puts opponent in BT on hit. Beware of BT B+K and punish according to above tip.
- Her 1A is -1 on hit, but 6BB will beat out a 2A. So you can use FC 3BB if you read a 6BB for CH launch, or you can 2K to avoid getting B+K GIed.
- Use 2A if Amy is just hovering over you while as you're getting off the ground. Don't stand up and block. This will keep you from having to guess the unseeable mixup at point blank range and it's too fast for Amy to GI on reaction.
- If you WL evade Amy's 2B+K or 1A, WL K is guaranteed.
- Keep in mind that while Amy gets a lot of free 6BB, they don't do heavy damage. It's merely an annoyance, not a game-changer.
Next up is Voldo...
VS. SEONG MINA
Match Rating: 4/6 in favor of Mina
Overview: Mina takes advantage of Talim's biggest problem. Lack of range. Talim has to take gambles whenever she tries to close distance against Mina. When Talim does finally get in, the matchup becomes even, and when Mina is forced to the edge, Talim has the advantage.
Match Strategy: Realize first off, that Mina starts the round with the upper hand. Mina has a moves that can hit Talim from neutral distance before she can attack (ex: 3B). Most people don't attack at the start, but it's good to keep in mind since it means you have to move defensively. Some things to consider...
---> Mina does heavy Soul Gauge (SG) damage, but by stepping/step-guarding, you can negate a lot of that pressure. Guard Mid at range and don't be afraid to duck when in close. You want to keep moving as much as possible. Mina is slow compared to most characters, and her heaviest hitting moves are all steppable to her front side. You want to step at range to that side almost constantly as a lot of her horizontals can also be stepped.
---> Talim out damages Mina in whiff punishes. Use 33A, 33B:6B, or 22B to whiff punish after step.
---> Most of Mina's reliable stepkillers are high (A+B, 22A) or unsafe (A+K, 8A+B). Punish the unsafes as hard as possible. (66A/44AA punishes her 8A+B, and you only get 6K off of her A+K). Duck inside of her 3B launch range to beat the highs. 6AK hits mid/high, so if you get hit while ducking, the 2nd part whiffs granting you a free Rising A punish. This is major because 6AK is Mina's best stepkiller in close.
Mina has 3 moves that you need to look out for as Talim. Her 4A, 7A, and 66A+B.
---> 4A should be obvious, because it's a retreating attack. This means that Talim's options when at advantage are drastically reduced. She's forced to use long-range tech-jump moves to beat it. (66B, 11B, WindSault) It's not hard to react to it once you've started trying to bait it out, but you're still taking a gamble. Because you have to respect this move, a lot of times you lose your advantage. Mina might keep attacking, forcing you to use a fast retaliation or stand guard. This gives her a free retreat.
---> 7A can be just as bad for the same reasons. The differences with this move are, 1) it's a jumping attack, so lows and throws lose. And 2) it catches step to the weak side. Yes, you can step guard, but because it's also a safe retreating move, blocking it does nothing for your position. Blocking it while moving forward is the best case scenario since Mina will have to keep playing defense.
---> 66A+B on block creates a favorable mixup for Mina even though it has very negative frames. An immediate 4A will beat all of Talim's fast options, forcing Talim to risk slow long range moves. Mina's bad frames don't mean much here since using quick attacks will beat Talim's slow moves. So the best course of action in most cases is to back off and do nothing. If a 4A comes, 66B punish it. If it doesn't react accordingly. Keep in mind that this move does good SG damage, and is a block trap off of several knockdown setups. You will face this situation many times a round. If your SG is already blinking red, there's not a lot of hope for you... sorry.
Talim has good evasive moves in close to overwhelm Mina and force her to become predictable. For example, after 66B on block, an immediate 1A+B beats all throws, highs, slow moves, and her annoying 6AK. If she decides to step, swap it out with 33A. If she does a low, use WindSault A+K. Or you could simply GI if she starts using quick attacks. This is especially effective against the edge or wall. Mina has nowhere to run so she has to attack or sidestep.
22K to her weak side or to follow her step is also good. Basically, Talim's panic buttons are better than Mina's, and with her amazing RO game, this can be tough for Mina to get around.
Other Misc. tips:
- You can duck the second hit of her 6B+K and punish with 236B or Rising A+B.
- Try not to let her 2K pokes get to you. A well placed 2B will stop fast followups, WS A+B will beat retreats, 2As, and 2Ks. Or you can just wait it out.
- Try to GI her slower moves if you can.
- If you're up on life and you get separated, just hang back and step around to her weak side. Mina will have to come to you eventually. (This applies to any character really)
VS. AMY
Match Rating: 4/6 in favor of Amy
Overview: Amy does everything Talim can do, just better and safer. Yeah, really... that's it.
Match Strategy: Not nearly as complicated as people would think. Amy wants to fight in close, and this plays right into Talim's gameplan. Amy is very safe on block with her main tools in this matchup, but she is still open to counter attacks if she becomes too predictable.
We know Amy has 2 auto-GIs, (A+B for highs, B+K for mids). Understand that most of the time the B+K one is coming out due to mids being the most common and powerful moves for any character. Fortunately, Talim has some good strong highs (66A, 44AA) that can make Amy lose confidence in B+K, and instead opt for ducking/TCing or using the A+B aGI. Talim also has 11KA, which will beat both aGI options and get you a counter hit knockdown. Learn to bait that mid aGI and use these moves to counter it.
The problems that Talim has in this matchup aren't too severe, but they are important to know. ---> Amy 6BB is a pain for more reasons than you may think. For one, if Talim's BB is blocked, she can't step (or WC I believe) Amy's 6BB and is forced to either block it, or TC. 6BB punishes Talim's 44K, and Rising A also so it's kinda annoying.
---> Talims' hitbox does not allow her to K punish 66A+B on block like other characters can. Not a huge deal, but annoying that this is completely safe. An immediate 1B forces her block (she can't step, GI, or aGI), but she can 6BB that as well. (This is almost never going to happen though since 1B is so fast.)
---> Amy's 44B isn't normally effective, but in this match it can be a nuisance since Talim's forward moving attacks are mostly high. This can be baited and 66B or 236B punished on whiff.
---> Amy is steppable, but you don't want to step at range too much vs her. Her 66A+B tracks one way and her 33B tracks to the other. The risk reward is in Amy's favor there.
---> Lastly, Talim's 8B, BT K behind RO doesn't work properly vs Amy due to small hitbox. This is unfortunate since it really would scare her into not using B+K with Talim's back to the edge. Her FC 3BB into AS B:K doesn't always work properly either, so you should end with AS B+K instead.
On the plus side, Talim's 22K is very good in this match since it avoids linear verticals like 3B, 33B, or 66B as well as her lows. So if you are in a desperate guessing situation, throwing this out to evade is a good option. You can also use setups like BB on block into 1A+B or even iFC 3BB to TC a predicted 6BB retaliation.
---> WC is actually quite decent in this match up close. WC K can beat 6BB or 3B if read right.
---> Another effective move is 44A+B. (NOT 4A+B). Talim's 44A+B does less damage than 4A+B (28 instead of 30) BUT it backsteps quite a bit farther than the latter. This reason alone is why it's useful. At certain close range situations, 44A+B will evade her 2B+K low, the first hit of 6BB and even 3A if timed correctly.
So what you generally wanna do is make Amy uncomfortable starting her offense in close by confusing her with highs and lows and using evasive moves (22K, 44A+B, 1A+B etc) to get around her setups. Stay at about mid range to bait her 44B and 33B and whiff punish as best as possible. Talim does more damage overall than Amy does unless you get mixed up on wakeup.
Other Misc. tips:
- You can step her BT B+K and get a free 236B punish on whiff
- Talim's 22A puts opponent in BT on hit. Beware of BT B+K and punish according to above tip.
- Her 1A is -1 on hit, but 6BB will beat out a 2A. So you can use FC 3BB if you read a 6BB for CH launch, or you can 2K to avoid getting B+K GIed.
- Use 2A if Amy is just hovering over you while as you're getting off the ground. Don't stand up and block. This will keep you from having to guess the unseeable mixup at point blank range and it's too fast for Amy to GI on reaction.
- If you WL evade Amy's 2B+K or 1A, WL K is guaranteed.
- Keep in mind that while Amy gets a lot of free 6BB, they don't do heavy damage. It's merely an annoyance, not a game-changer.
Next up is Voldo...
