The Apprentice General Discussion / Q&A

KoshTheKoala

[09] Warrior
So A+B (force pull) gives +1 frame.

3B gives more than -17 frames on block... that's enough for a free 3B from Apprentice. You're actually better off ALWAYS buffering 3B8 so at least you take an air hit instead of a regular one.

I deleted the frame data thread, I found enough errors that I'd need to recalculate it.

This, however, is correct...

i12 : A+B
i13 : K
i14 : A, 3K, 3A, 2A
i15 : B, 6B
i16 : 2B, 1B, 1K
i17 : 3B, 6K
i18 : 2B+K, 4K, 4B
 

KoshTheKoala

[09] Warrior
Looking at the frame data...

On force pull hit, the best option seems to be 3K. The only things that'll stuff it is Taki's A and 2b:A and Yoshimitsu's 2bA. 3K is a mid, unlike his A and K, thus it'll hit TC moves that A and K may whiff on. And finally, you get a stun on CH that'll let you get a free 3B8.

Of course you'd mix up 3K with, say, a throw unless they're Cervantes, Nightmare or Siegfried due to throws whiffing on them. You could also mix it up with 2A to TC Taki and Yoshi. 3B seems a bit risky.


I have this nagging feeling that 22A and WS A give a LOT of + frames.
Once I test that, I'll have to compare WS A with WS K, WS B and FC 8KA to see what the best attack out of FC is.
 

crystalwind

[08] Mercenary
A+B Force pull gives only +1 frame advantage on hit,ch and block.

I firmly sure about it, because it is proved that Apprentice's 3k(i14, after force pull, actually i13)

always counter hit with Amy's k(i13) each other under a situation when after force pulled.


And I don't agree that 3k is the best option after force pull. Since many players who know about

Apprentice keep blocking when they are pulled. If 3k is blocked or nomal hitted, Apprentice will

have frame disadvantage and you will be in trouble.


I drop some data what I've researched.

Move,frame,hit,ch,blocked

3K i14 -4 st -?
BB i15 +2 +2 -?
66A+B,B i? stun stun +3

st=stun

66A+B,B on block gives +3 frame advantage so that you can choose several options such as

grapple,3k(on purpose for counter hit), 2B+K:B-Combo.


English is my second language, so you guys might feel uncomfortable to read. Sorry about that.
 

KoshTheKoala

[09] Warrior
I'm 100% positive force pull gives +4 on hit and ch. After hit, K clashes with Taki's A. Taki's A is i9.

I just tested - on force pull hit/CH, his B beats out Amy's K and his 3B is simultaneous. So unless his 3B is i14, his B i13, you're wrong.

Nice find on 66A+BB, I can confirm it's +3 on block.

Oh and even though 3K hits simultaneously with Amy's K (and Apprentice's K) on force pull block, it still gets off a CH stun, which gives you a guaranteed 3B. It might work against other characters too.

Anyway, after force pull, you 3K if you think they're going to attack. You throw if you think they're going to stand and block. You 3B if you think they're going to duck and on hit.
 

crystalwind

[08] Mercenary
No, force pull gives +1. I've already done experiment several times with Taki's AA.

After pull on hit, Taki's AA always win Apprentice's K. I think that you a little bit slowly put command when you check out.

And there is another disproof that force pull doesn't give +4 advantage. As you guys know, Amy's 6B is i11. After force

pull on hit Amy, Amy's 6B always win Apprentice's K.


p.s. I assumed Taki's AA as i10 when I prove it.
 

SSZero

[08] Mercenary
Hey guys, I haven't seen this posted anywhere so I'd like to know: what are his unlisted moves? The only one I know of is his (while crouching) 8KA lightsaber throw. Any other moves? I fought against Starkiller online and saw someone do what looked like a just-frame counter after breaking a grab, but after my attempts to do it again I can't seem to do the right input. Please list all unlisted moves if possible.
 

KoshTheKoala

[09] Warrior
Hey guys, I haven't seen this posted anywhere so I'd like to know: what are his unlisted moves? The only one I know of is his (while crouching) 8KA lightsaber throw. Any other moves? I fought against Starkiller online and saw someone do what looked like a just-frame counter after breaking a grab, but after my attempts to do it again I can't seem to do the right input. Please list all unlisted moves if possible.

A+B breaks throws, but don't use it until the 1.03 patch hits. If you see someone do it before we get the patch, just throw them again.

2B+K:B is a just frame.

I believe that's all he has for unlisted moves.
 

SSZero

[08] Mercenary
A+B breaks throws, but don't use it until the 1.03 patch hits. If you see someone do it before we get the patch, just throw them again.

2B+K:B is a just frame.

I believe that's all he has for unlisted moves.

Oh ok, thanks. Didn't realize he had almost nothing for the unlisted move category, but I'll try it out now, actually...
 

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
After the patch Apprentice is now the official anti-astaroth. I was playing my friend who was an Astaroth player and he couldn't land a single throw on me.

All you gotta do is be careful with your force meter whenever your doing moves and combos. Basically never waste your force on things such as the LV AA,A+B combo, instead do AABB (it gives you better wakeup anyways), and be careful with your use of A+B and 236B. As long as you keep ur force meter up you're unthrowable.

And also just keep tapping A+B whenever you're holding the guard button. You'll never have to worry about breaking on reaction that way. ;)
 

KoshTheKoala

[09] Warrior
A+B cannot break backthrows.

Assuming this is correct for Xianghua: A=i11, K=i13, 6K=i14, B=i15, 2B=i16

44A is safe on block, knocks down on hit and CH.

2KB is faster in 1.03, guaranteed combo on CH, and is sometimes safe on block... depends on a lot of things. The B still whiffs if they're off axis.

22A is -14 on block, +2 or 3 on hit and CH.

2B+K is -14 on HIT.

44K is safe on block and launches on hit and CH.

A+B is +1 on everything.

66AB - the B portion comes out at 10 frames after 66A on block, so it'll clash with Taki's A. On hit it's a combo.

BB is +2 on hit and safe on block.

AA is +1 on hit and safe on block.

AAB is -16 to -19 on block, but leaves them in FC. It's NCC and the B is unsteppable if AA hits. It's at least negative frames if the B hits, but leaves them FC.

22B is safe on block and leaves them FC. On hit, FC 8K:A leads to 60+ damage.

1A is -16 on block, but a spin stun on hit that's +13 frames (I think.. they can 2G and duck A, but not K or A+B). Which means you get an uninterruptable throw or BB. 3B can be stepped to the right (apprentice's left).

It seems FC 8K:A is harder now, but that might just be me. I was getting it nearly consistently before 1.03. Now it's really hard.

Oh, and I found a 101 damage combo that doesn't use your full force bar. Run up to someone or stand next to them with their back to the edge and do 44A+B ~ 3B8 AA A+B ~ 236B. If someone lets you force lightning them in the face, its 100 damage.



For Soul Crushes:
8_9B - 10
66B - 10
44B - 10
22B - 10
2A+B - 12 (a pain to test)
1A - 13
1B - 13
7B - 13
BB - 15
44A - 15
3B - 20
22A - 20
AAB - 27
AA - 41 (yes, 41)
A+B - 86 (12x1B + 2xA+B = SC. 11x1B + 9xA+B = SC. Therefore, 7xA+B = 1x1B, thus by math, 86xA+B = SC)
 

Logos

[08] Mercenary
After 1A, you can do B+K, BxN, 6B, 3B into whatever.

Man, -14 on hit for 2B+K? Better not miss that JF.

Also, are you sure about the A+B break not working on back throws? I'm almost positive I've done it twice (once pre-patch against Nightmare's FC throw into a free back throw and once last night when someone ducked my 6BBK).
 

KoshTheKoala

[09] Warrior
I've tried and could never break a backthrow in training. Maybe they sidestepped or were off axis and side threw you instead?

Anyway, after doing that mini-test yesterday, it seems a move I really need to incorporate into my game is 22B.

It steps (22 portion), it's safe on hit, and leads to 60+ damage with the FC 8K:A finisher on hit. It's also tied for her best soul crush move.
 

Niichts

[08] Mercenary
After 1A, you can do B+K, BxN, 6B, 3B into whatever.

Man, -14 on hit for 2B+K? Better not miss that JF.

Also, are you sure about the A+B break not working on back throws? I'm almost positive I've done it twice (once pre-patch against Nightmare's FC throw into a free back throw and once last night when someone ducked my 6BBK).

I was getting back thrown a lot latley due to floating over peoples heads, but could not break any of them. However, I have seen him break a back throws before...And I have no explanation for it. I'll just assume it is broken, and sometimes works even though it shouldnt.
 

Ooofmatic

World Warrior
Oh, and I found a 101 damage combo that doesn't use your full force bar. Run up to someone or stand next to them with their back to the edge and do 44A+B ~ 3B8 AA A+B ~ 236B. If someone lets you force lightning them in the face, its 100 damage.
If you want to force lightning someone in the face like that his best setup for it is 2A+B, 66B+K, 44A+B. All they have to do is stand up and they're toast.
 

KoshTheKoala

[09] Warrior
Found more whiffing. 22B isn't as good as I thought because the FC 8K:A 2B follow up whiffs against Cervy, Nightmare and Siegfried.
 

RiBu

Mitsu-Fucking-Rugi
Some wall shit:

He can force pull people after he knocks them into the wall.I'm kind of using throw/3B afterwards since most of the time it knocks them to his side.

I've got 66K at between i18-i20 right now.I've got B+K at i13.

You can GI 236B, and FL(Force Levitate?) B+K. Pretty useless though.

What's the Deal with B+K on block? Can he keep doing them or can they GI out of block? Cause on a wall I have him able to do 20 of them in a row on block.Doesn't do any SG damage though so it could be good more lulz and mix-ups.
 

SSZero

[08] Mercenary
Another unlisted move that I can't seem to find: Force Levitate LightSaber Throw. Apparently, the COM did 8A+K (or 2A+K) and threw the lightsaber at me in mid-air while I was playing Vader to unlock apprentice on someone else's console. Does anyone know the input for this move? I tried a bunch of different combos and nothing seemed to have worked...

P.S. This is not the while rising K into the just frame A. Also, I'm not sure if it was a just frame since I don't remember if the COM glowed white...
 

RiBu

Mitsu-Fucking-Rugi
Another unlisted move that I can't seem to find: Force Levitate LightSaber Throw. Apparently, the COM did 8A+K (or 2A+K) and threw the lightsaber at me while I was playing Vader to unlock apprentice on someone else's console. Does anyone know the input for this move? I tried a bunch of different combos and nothing seemed to have worked...

P.S. This is not the while rising K into the just frame A...

his 4_2_8_6_A+K are his directional flips, and he has a BT A+K flip. from the BT A+K he can do A+B and throw the lightsaber. . .