The Athiest Thread

[UnseenWombat]

IT’S NOT. REASONABLE FAITH SHOULD REQUIRE MORE THAN TRUSTING INDIRECT ACCOUNTS OF JESUS’ LIFE. WHY IS IT THAT NONE OF THE GOSPELS WRITTEN BY THE APOSTLES CONTAIN THEIR FIRST-HAND EXPERIENCE OF JESUS’ RESSURRECTION OR ASCENSION? WHY EVEN TRUST THESE STORIES WHEN THEY WERE ONLY WRITTEN 50+ YEARS AFTER THE SUPPOSED EVENTS? WHY TRUST THEM WHEN THEY WERE REVISED NUMEROUS TIMES? HOW IS THIS AT ALL REASONABLE FAITH?

Yes, I've seen this misconception before. The gospels, except for Luke, are first-hand accounts of the disciples experiences with Jesus. (Source) I'm not sure where you picked up that they weren't. John, though he refers to himself in the third person, was the first one, besides the women, to see the empty tomb. And Luke, (also Acts) contains so many historically verifiable details that even skeptics credit him with at least being a top rate historian.

The gospels were also written very shortly, by historical document standards, after the events which they describe. Three primary forms of evidence appear that prove the Gospels were written by the apostles during the first century:

• early documents from heretics such as Marcion and the school of Valentinus citing New Testament books, themes, and passages
• numerous writings of early Christian sources, such as Clement of Rome, Ignatius, and Polycarp
• discovered copies of Gospel fragments carbon-dated as early as 117 A.D.

The conclusion is that there is no reason to believe that the Gospels were written any later than about 70 A.D. That means that if there were any historical errors, they would have been exposed immediately by people who had been alive to see it themselves.

There are also non-christian sources that would lead any rational person to conclude that the writings must have existed at a very early point in the Church's history.

The Pagan Roman historian Tacitus wrote in 115 AD...

"Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome... Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty: then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind."

Several key points should be noted from this passage. First, there was an immense multitude of Christians living in Rome by 64 A.D. Another Roman historian, Suetonius, mentions Christians (denoting at least an amount significant enough to be mentioned) in Rome by 49 A.D. in The Twelve Caesars.

I don't know of any "legend" not based on facts that has grown up so fast, so convincingly, and so far as to inspire "immense multitudes of believers" so far away from its place of origin within a short 32 years. So you also have to conclude that these Christians must have had written documents detailing the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. Otherwise, how could they study his teachings? Don't you think they would request written documents? How could they commit their lives to a mere rumor or legend with meager evidence and no written works to study? Numerous eyewitnesses of Jesus' life were still around even in 64 A.D. who could have easily set the record straight had these Christians been proclaiming known lies about the life of Christ. We know of no such opposition.

There's much more I could give you, but I doubt you're really interested in even this much.

YOU’RE A LIAR. IF YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS, YOU MIGHT AS WELL BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU HEAR.

"Every historical statement in the world is believed on authority. None of us has seen the Norman Conquest or the defeat of the Armada. None of us could prove them by pure logic as you prove a thing in mathematics. We believe them simply because people who did see them have left writings that tell us about them: in fact, on authority. A man who jibbed at authority in other things as some people do in religion would have to be content to know nothing all his life."

Sooo, I hope that sets that straight. If not, (or even if it does) feel free to continue shouting at and insulting me.

 

[JDub]

I think it's sad atheists accuse theists or religion of alienating everyone that doesn't believe in god,
yet do the same thing.
Alienating everyone that doesn't share their disbelief..

If you were hounded and marginalized (alienated) all your life for not believing in something that to you is the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, and Easter Bunny rolled into one wouldn't it get old and wouldn't you want to vent? I'm tired of people telling me that just because we've never seen a unicorn doesn't mean there aren't any. Except a unicorn is more plausible (minus flight anyway). You need to understand we all prolly have crazy notions about one thing or another. And I really do think that faith is an infinitesimal part of who you are so I'm not judging you as a person overall. I'm just saying that in this one little area I think religious people are basically sharing a mass delusion. First of all, religion assumes we have souls and no other creatures do. Arrogance. Secondly, it assumes those souls are worth something. Arrogance. Thirdly, it assumes that our souls are worth enough that some enormous, all knowing, sentient being wants to spend and eternity with them. Arrogance. Finally, it assumes that despite being all powerful God has to have a transactional relationship over our souls. He wants good souls and will trade you eternal happiness for you to keep your soul pure. We are not humans but surrogates for a kinky taste in souls. All, within reason, is laughable.

 

[Jrasta111]

KMFDM?

How about some KMFDM...?

But for some reason the video stops at 3:33, before the end of the song anyway... You're welcome.

 

[JDub]

How about some KMFDM...?

Spoiler

But for some reason the video stops at 3:33, before the end of the song anyway... You're welcome.

Best Anime ever!

Here's some funny vids.

An old Daily Show clip with Steven Colbert and Steve Carrell:

Spoiler

A funny Dawkins clip:

Spoiler

Bill Hicks:

Spoiler

 

[MONEYMUFFINS]

Yes, I've seen this misconception before. The gospels, except for Luke, are first-hand accounts of the disciples experiences with Jesus. (Source) I'm not sure where you picked up that they weren't. John, though he refers to himself in the third person, was the first one, besides the women, to see the empty tomb. And Luke, (also Acts) contains so many historically verifiable details that even skeptics credit him with at least being a top rate historian.

The gospels were also written very shortly, by historical document standards, after the events which they describe. Three primary forms of evidence appear that prove the Gospels were written by the apostles during the first century:

• early documents from heretics such as Marcion and the school of Valentinus citing New Testament books, themes, and passages
• numerous writings of early Christian sources, such as Clement of Rome, Ignatius, and Polycarp
• discovered copies of Gospel fragments carbon-dated as early as 117 A.D.

The conclusion is that there is no reason to believe that the Gospels were written any later than about 70 A.D. That means that if there were any historical errors, they would have been exposed immediately by people who had been alive to see it themselves.


There are also non-christian sources that would lead any rational person to conclude that the writings must have existed at a very early point in the Church's history.

The Pagan Roman historian Tacitus wrote in 115 AD...

"Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome... Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty: then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind."

Several key points should be noted from this passage. First, there was an immense multitude of Christians living in Rome by 64 A.D. Another Roman historian, Suetonius, mentions Christians (denoting at least an amount significant enough to be mentioned) in Rome by 49 A.D. in The Twelve Caesars.

I don't know of any "legend" not based on facts that has grown up so fast, so convincingly, and so far as to inspire "immense multitudes of believers" so far away from its place of origin within a short 32 years. So you also have to conclude that these Christians must have had written documents detailing the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. Otherwise, how could they study his teachings? Don't you think they would request written documents? How could they commit their lives to a mere rumor or legend with meager evidence and no written works to study? Numerous eyewitnesses of Jesus' life were still around even in 64 A.D. who could have easily set the record straight had these Christians been proclaiming known lies about the life of Christ. We know of no such opposition.

There's much more I could give you, but I doubt you're really interested in even this much.



"Every historical statement in the world is believed on authority. None of us has seen the Norman Conquest or the defeat of the Armada. None of us could prove them by pure logic as you prove a thing in mathematics. We believe them simply because people who did see them have left writings that tell us about them: in fact, on authority. A man who jibbed at authority in other things as some people do in religion would have to be content to know nothing all his life."

Sooo, I hope that sets that straight. If not, (or even if it does) feel free to continue shouting at and insulting me.

I DO NOT HAVE TIME RIGHT NOW TO ADDRESS EVERYTHING YOU WROTE.

READ THIS ESSAY. IT FITS MY TAKE ON THE MATTER.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/resurrection/lecture.html



TL;DR SUMMARY:

"We have no trustworthy evidence of a physical resurrection, no reliable witnesses. It is among the most poorly attested of historical events. The earliest evidence, from the letters of Paul, does not appear to be of a physical resurrection, but a spiritual one. And we have at least one plausible reason available to us as to why and how the legend grew into something else. Finally, the original accounts of a resurrection of a flesh-and-blood corpse show obvious signs of legendary embellishment over time, and were written in an age of little education and even less science, a time overflowing with superstition and credulity."

 

[SBA]

Damn you and your evidence based reality!

BTW...The Christian thread has a mod making it clear what will and won't be accepted. He will delete posts as he sees fit and hand out infractions. I don't want that here please! Let the Christian thread enjoy censorship in their favor. We don't need it here.

Tell you what. Ill let this thread do what it do, and if yall have a problem with a post or something, contact me or report it.

 

[JDub]

Tell you what. Ill let this thread do what it do, and if yall have a problem with a post or something, contact me or report it.

Here's a quote from Thomas Jefferson I just put in the Christian thread -

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

Thanks for not being the despot. Though I'm sure many online "priests" will ask you to be.

 

[greendusk]

I am an atheist my rule is "live and let live but keep your cookies safe someone else is always trying to get them"

 

[KingAce]

First of all...these statements.

People, despite facts or proof believe what they want to believe.
Everyone has made up their minds when they enter these discussions.
You won't change anyone's opinion.
This applies to both atheists and theists.

First of all, religion assumes we have souls and no other creatures do. Arrogance. Secondly, it assumes those souls are worth something. Arrogance. Thirdly, it assumes that our souls are worth enough that some enormous, all knowing, sentient being wants to spend and eternity with them. Arrogance. Finally, it assumes that despite being all powerful God has to have a transactional relationship over our souls. He wants good souls and will trade you eternal happiness for you to keep your soul pure. We are not humans but surrogates for a kinky taste in souls. All, within reason, is laughable.

All regions originate from the same exact teachings. Spiritual Science, as it's now called is the backbone of all major religions. Despite how different they're now...at one point they taught the exact same philosophies.
Here, are some of the concepts.

Matter is the physical universe. (The Dark Universe)
Spirit is the omniverse.(The Light Omniverse)
Matter can not comprehend Spirit.
Everything that has life has this Spirit energy.(the lifeforce)
Death is the departure of Spirit from the physical body.
Reincarnation is the reintroduction of a Spirit back into the Physical universe.
The physical Universe has been destroyed and recreated millions of times.
Until the cycle of death and rebirth stops for all souls, this pattern will continue.
The human body is the temple of God. (no point in churches, mosques etc)
With it one can break the cycle of birth and death and transcend beyond.
The only enemy man has is himself. Know thyself.
Love your neighbor like you love thyself.

 

[Jrasta111]

I raise, one egg.

http://www.breaktheillusion.com/story/the-egg-by-andy-weir/

Spoiler

You were on your way home when you died.
It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.
And that’s when you met me.
“What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?”
“You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.
“There was a… a truck and it was skidding…”
“Yup,” I said.
“I… I died?”
“Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said.
You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?”
“More or less,” I said.
“Are you god?” You asked.
“Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.”
“My kids… my wife,” you said.
“What about them?”
“Will they be all right?”
“That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.”
You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.
“Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. You wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.”
“Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?”
“Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.”
“Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,”
“All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.”
You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?”
“Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.”
“So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.”
“Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.”
I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.
“You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.”
“How many times have I been reincarnated, then?”
“Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.”
“Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?”
“Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.”
“Where you come from?” You said.
“Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.”
“Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.”
“Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.”
“So what’s the point of it all?”
“Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?”
“Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted.
I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.”
“You mean mankind? You want us to mature?”
“No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.”
“Just me? What about everyone else?”
“There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.”
You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…”
“All you. Different incarnations of you.”
“Wait. I’m everyone!?”
“Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.
“I’m every human being who ever lived?”
“Or who will ever live, yes.”
“I’m Abraham Lincoln?”
“And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.
“I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.
“And you’re the millions he killed.”
“I’m Jesus?”
“And you’re everyone who followed him.”
You fell silent.
“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”
You thought for a long time.
“Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”
“Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.”
“Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a god?”
“No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.”
“So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…”
“An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.”
And I sent you on your way.

*Reshuffles*

 

[MONEYMUFFINS]

You won't change anyone's opinion.

I CHANGE MY OPINION ALL THE TIME.

 

[UnseenWombat]

I DO NOT HAVE TIME RIGHT NOW TO ADDRESS EVERYTHING YOU WROTE.

READ THIS ESSAY. IT FITS MY TAKE ON THE MATTER.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/resurrection/lecture.html



TL;DR SUMMARY:

"We have no trustworthy evidence of a physical resurrection, no reliable witnesses. It is among the most poorly attested of historical events. The earliest evidence, from the letters of Paul, does not appear to be of a physical resurrection, but a spiritual one. And we have at least one plausible reason available to us as to why and how the legend grew into something else. Finally, the original accounts of a resurrection of a flesh-and-blood corpse show obvious signs of legendary embellishment over time, and were written in an age of little education and even less science, a time overflowing with superstition and credulity."

Okay, that's fine, and I could go now and get an article that says precisely the contrary of that one. But, before we get on that merry-go-round, let me say you're missing the deeper point of my post. It's true I was making the case that Christianity is historically reliable, and we can go back and forth for months and months posting an article for and an article against every thing either one of us says, but underneath that, and underneath the entire discussion, everything I post is meant to show that Christianity is not simply a belief accepted on "blind faith" by the unwashed ignorant masses. There are many Christians like that to be sure, and I know you love to hold them up as examples of how stupid we must all be, but there are some very learned people, who don't take everything at face value whostill hold that it's plausible, if not out and out more likely than the alternatives. Did you know, for example, that the head of the human genome project is a Christian, believes in evolution, (and has convinced me of it as well), and yet still believes that God is ultimately responsible for creation? He's not a supid guy, obviously, does not just blindly accept whatever the church leaders told him, (he started as an atheist before he reasoned that the Christian God must be real), so don't be so quick to dismiss it.

That was what I was trying to say.

 

[Synalon]

You won't change anyone's opinion.

I've changed my mind before as a result of discussions about god, and I've witnessed other people doing so. No, it doesn't happen very often. But it happens.

 

[Synalon]

"Every historical statement in the world is believed on authority. None of us has seen the Norman Conquest or the defeat of the Armada. None of us could prove them by pure logic as you prove a thing in mathematics. We believe them simply because people who did see them have left writings that tell us about them: in fact, on authority. A man who jibbed at authority in other things as some people do in religion would have to be content to know nothing all his life."

Of course this is true, but claims that violate certain natural laws (like that Jesus rose from the dead) require extraordinary evidence. This is exacerbated by the fact that the writers of the gospels had perhaps a bit of a...vested interest in proving the resurrection.

I don't think every Christian has blind faith. But when people believe that we all descended from one couple, that some old guy managed to part the red sea and that Noah put two of every animal on a vast boat and sailed around for years (not to mention that he lived until he was like a thousand), it's a little difficult to take them seriously.

 

[Norik]

 

[MONEYMUFFINS]

but there are some very learned people, who don't take everything at face value who still hold that it's plausible, if not out and out more likely than the alternatives.

YOU DIDN’T REALLY THINK I WOULD NOT NOTICE THIS, DID YOU? OF COURSE I ALREADY KNEW THAT LOADS OF INTELLIGENT PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE IN RELIGION.

I HAVE ALSO SEEN STUDIES ON THE MATTER. MOST DOCTORS ARE BELIEVERS. MOST SCIENTISTS ARE NOT. SEEMINGLY STRANGE, BUT IT’S NOT SO SURPRISING WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHY. ONE KIND IS STRICTLY FOCUSED ON THE TRUTH. THE OTHER ISN’T NECESSARILY INTERESTED. BUT I ALWAYS VALUE THE TRUTH. THAT’S WHY I’M SO GREAT AT FIGURING OUT HOW STUFF WORKS. ESPECIALLY WITH PEOPLE. I AM AMAZING AT BEATING GOOD PLAYERS IN SOULCALIBUR FOR A REASON. AND I AM GREAT WITH WOMEN FOR A REASON. I ALWAYS TEST THEORIES IN ORDER TO KNOW WTF IS REALLY GOING ON.

WE ALL HAVE OUR CORE VALUES. TRUTH, HONESTY, AND FAIRNESS ARE MINE. I SEE THINGS FOR WHAT THEY ARE. AND LAST I CHECKED, 93% OF SCIENTISTS DO AS WELL. SO, GUESS WHAT? I WILL ALWAYS RIDICULE THE INTELLIGENT IF THEIR PRIVATE BELIEFS ARE RELIGIOUS. THEY ARE LIARS. END OF STORY.

 

[Norik]

 

[MONEYMUFFINS]

HE HAD A LOT TO SAY.
HE HAD A LOT OF NOTHING TO SAY.
WE'LL MISS HIM.


SO LONG. WE WISH YOU WILL.
YOU TOLD US HOW YOU WEREN'T AFRAID TO DIE.
WELL THEN, SO LONG.


DON'T CRY. OR FEEL TOO DOWN.
NOT ALL MARTYRS SEE DIVINITY.
BUT AT LEAST YOU TRIED.


STANDING ABOVE THE CROWD,
HE HAD A VOICE THAT WAS STRONG AND LOUD.
WE'LL MISS HIM.


RANTING AND POINTING HIS FINGER,
AT EVERYTHING BUT HIS HEART.
WE'LL MISS HIM.


NO WAY TO RECALL,
WHAT IT WAS THAT YOU HAD SAID TO ME.
LIKE I CARE AT ALL.


BUT IT WAS SO LOUD. YOU SURE COULD YELL.
TOOK A STAND ON EVERY LITTLE THING,
AND SO LOUD.


STANDING ABOVE THE CROWD,
HE HAD A VOICE THAT WAS STRONG AND LOUD,
AND I SWALLOWED HIS FACADE,
'CAUSE I'M SO EAGER TO IDENTIFY WITH...


SOMEONE ABOVE THE GROUND.
SOMEONE WHO SEEMED TO FEEL THE SAME.
SOMEONE PREPARED TO LEAD THE WAY.
SOMEONE WHO WOULD DIE FOR ME.


WILL YOU? WILL YOU NOW?
WOULD YOU DIE FOR ME?
DON'T YOU FUCKING LIE.
DON'T YOU STEP OUT OF LINE.
DON'T YOU FUCKING LIE.


YOU'VE CLAIMED ALL THIS TIME THAT YOU WOULD DIE FOR ME.
WHY THEN, ARE YOU SO SURPRISED WHEN YOU HEAR YOUR OWN EULOGY?


HE HAD A LOT TO SAY.
HE HAD A LOT OF NOTHING TO SAY.


COME DOWN.
GET OFF YOUR FUCKING CROSS.
WE NEED THE FUCKING SPACE TO NAIL THE NEXT FOOL MARTYR.


TO ASCEND YOU MUST DIE.
YOU MUST BE CRUCIFIED,
FOR OUR SINS AND OUR LIES.
GOODBYE.

 

[damn-I-Suck]

This is exactly the thread for me! I'm a huge Nietzsche fan.

There are 1000 reasons why I don't believe in god, and why I do believe in evolution, but I'm only gonna list off the ones that are the most significant to me.

-The human body, from an engineering standpoint, makes no sense sometimes....

#1, The occipital lobe of our brains deals with vision, and it's in the back of the head. From our eyes, the nerve pathways flip upside-down, and switch from left to right, before they reach the back of the brain. If an engineer did this, they would be fired.

#2, Humans have a tiny little remnant of a tail-bone at the end of the spine. We have no use for it now, but its become a leftover physical trait from our ape-like ancestors that hasn't had the time to completely wither away yet.

#3, The appendix is completely useless. Not only is it useless, but it can potentially kill someone if it isn't removed surgically once it becomes inflamed.

So.... How the hell does a "perfect" god make such imperfect designs? Why would God create dinosaurs if only to wipe them out? Why would god create a MASSIVE universe when only a very small fraction of planets and solar systems are suitable for life? Seems like a giant waste of space when "the children of God" all inhabit planet Earth.

What is the biggest reason why people believe in god? It's fear of death. They don't want to accept the fact that their loved ones are gone forever, and that they too will be dead one day. It's the sole reason why concepts like "soul", "afterlife", and "heaven" were invented in the first place, so people can fantasize about some "paradise" that they'll go to when they die. Call me an extremist, but I truly believe that people who think this way are "sick" in the head.

Religion is, quite simply, the opium of the masses. It really is just like a drug: it's addictive, it pollutes and destroys the mind, it creates violence, supports arrogance, and encourages hatred.

Speaking of evolution, I believe that religion is holding us back as a species. Just imagine how much better the Middle East would be if religion didn't exist. There is one quote I will never forget, "when religion ruled, they called it the Dark Ages".

From roughly 500 AD to 1500 AD (I don't remember the exact years), Christian crusaders destroyed superior science and technology given to us by the ancient Greeks. During this 1000 year time period, nearly NO scientific innovations happened until Copernicus came along and said "the earth revolves around the sun, not the other way around". Instead of embracing innovation and advancement, the superstitious "Christians" of his era were convinced that the devil lived in his telescope, and was feeding him lies. This marked the beginning of the Renaissance era, and was known as "the Copernican Revolution".

I could go on and on and on, but I'm stopping here.

 

[Synalon]

I suddenly like you considerably more.