The Athiest Thread

[damn-I-Suck]

Yeah, and with it's life and death, the earth is a never-ending combo.

 

[MONEYMUFFINS]

AW YE. GONE FOR ONE DAY AND WE GET THREE NEW PAGES.


THANKS FOR FILLING IN, DAMN-I-SUCK.

 

[MONEYMUFFINS]

 

[Lasercakes]

Speaking of evolution, I believe that religion is holding us back as a species.

You're making the mistake of thinking evolution has purposeful advancement. Sorry dude you aren't qualified to debate evolution. No one here is. You can say "I believe religion is holding us back as a species," but when you say it in terms of evolution you are making a mistake.

Norik religion might have been bad during he dark ages but today science is destroying our planet. Science is killing us right now giving us cancer.

And guess what isn't curing cancer? Religion.

Well I hope that 1 day, you atheist can finally open your eyes and see that our world is just to beautiful and complex to be a coincidence.

You misunderstand us. We don't believe the world around us to be coincidence or luck, but rather cause and effect.

Speak for yourself. It goes both ways. Evolution is full of holes.

Cite your shit please.

 

[Norik]

Speak for yourself. It goes both ways. Evolution is full of holes.

Like for example..?

 

[Ramus]

Like for example..?

I had races, but since you guys goes with artificial evolution, so i am out =\ but then again religion is more about faitth

 

[damn-I-Suck]

What I am saying is that religion is holding back our intelligence and critical thinking. Since evolution has pushed us in that direction for the last 1 million years or so, it's safe to say that evolution is being stunted.

Never did I once say that evolution is purpose driven. As far as humans are concerned, there is a "push" towards higher reasoning. That was all I meant by this.

Evolution is not always a progression upwards. Giraffes evolved smaller brains because their necks were so long that it required the heart to pump too hard in order to get all that blood to the brain. They needed longer necks to get things out of tall tree brances.

How did I go from being hated to being followed? I'm confused because I'm still the same person I always have been.

 

[Devon]

I don't like to "label" myself. Yeah, I'm a hipster.

 

[MONEYMUFFINS]

How did I go from being hated to being followed? I'm confused because I'm still the same person I always have been.

I GAVE THEM THE GO-AHEAD.


FUCK IT UP, HOWEVER, AND THE LIONS WILL COME AFTER YOU!!!!

 

[UnseenWombat]

YOU DIDN’T REALLY THINK I WOULD NOT NOTICE THIS, DID YOU? OF COURSE I ALREADY KNEW THAT LOADS OF INTELLIGENT PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE IN RELIGION.

I HAVE ALSO SEEN STUDIES ON THE MATTER. MOST DOCTORS ARE BELIEVERS. MOST SCIENTISTS ARE NOT. SEEMINGLY STRANGE, BUT IT’S NOT SO SURPRISING WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHY. ONE KIND IS STRICTLY FOCUSED ON THE TRUTH. THE OTHER ISN’T NECESSARILY INTERESTED. BUT I ALWAYS VALUE THE TRUTH. THAT’S WHY I’M SO GREAT AT FIGURING OUT HOW STUFF WORKS. ESPECIALLY WITH PEOPLE. I AM AMAZING AT BEATING GOOD PLAYERS IN SOULCALIBUR FOR A REASON. AND I AM GREAT WITH WOMEN FOR A REASON. I ALWAYS TEST THEORIES IN ORDER TO KNOW WTF IS REALLY GOING ON.

...SO, GUESS WHAT? I WILL ALWAYS RIDICULE THE INTELLIGENT IF THEIR PRIVATE BELIEFS ARE RELIGIOUS. THEY ARE LIARS. END OF STORY.

Ok, just so I've got this straight, you believe that even though some people who are superior to you intellectually can understand that religion and science are not incompatible, and the evidence for not only the existence of God, but the God of Christianity is compelling enough to, at the very least, not dismiss as just a "fairy tale," that they must be lying because you personally have decided that religion is silly.

Makes perfect sense. I sure am glad you're around to set all those idiot doctors and scientists straight. ;)

WE ALL HAVE OUR CORE VALUES. TRUTH, HONESTY, AND FAIRNESS ARE MINE. I SEE THINGS FOR WHAT THEY ARE. AND LAST I CHECKED, 93% OF SCIENTISTS DO AS WELL.

Well, first off, the 93% number you cited was from a study done almost 15 years ago, and only refers to actual members of the national academy of sciences. Among scientists not members of that specific group, in the main population, the number is more like 60%, or less. "Truth and honesty" should have compelled you to mention that. However, no one perfectly follows their values all the time, so that's okay.

Secondly, you may want to consider adding "humility" and "respect" to your repertoire. Just a suggestion.

Speaking of evolution, I believe that religion is holding us back as a species. Just imagine how much better the Middle East would be if religion didn't exist. There is one quote I will never forget, "when religion ruled, they called it the Dark Ages".

From roughly 500 AD to 1500 AD (I don't remember the exact years), Christian crusaders destroyed superior science and technology given to us by the ancient Greeks. During this 1000 year time period, nearly NO scientific innovations happened until Copernicus came along and said "the earth revolves around the sun, not the other way around". Instead of embracing innovation and advancement, the superstitious "Christians" of his era were convinced that the devil lived in his telescope, and was feeding him lies. This marked the beginning of the Renaissance era, and was known as "the Copernican Revolution".

That's why during those years there were such huge scientific advances in countries where there was no Christianity, like China and the Americas. That's why they're out exploring the galaxy and travelling through time while we're still... oh wait.

Yess unfortunately, there is no explanation for how a species loses or gains pairs of chromosomes.

Humans have 46, Chimpanzees have 48. People with down-syndrome have 47, which is why they can't have kids (thank god for that!)

Actually, I've heard a plausible explanation for it. I found it in here, of all places; http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Language_of_God.html?id=zEi09x2AX9sC

You seem to be missing the point that evolution happens very VERY gradually over time. We were not always amazing and intelligent as we are now.

You wanna know where it came from? It came from within. Not from some guy in the sky watching over us, not from some spiritual nonsense, but from plain, mundane, planet Earth.

What I am saying is that religion is holding back our intelligence and critical thinking. Since evolution has pushed us in that direction for the last 1 million years or so, it's safe to say that evolution is being stunted.

"People often wonder "What is the next step? When is the thing beyond man going to appear?" ... Supposing the next step was to be something even more different from the earlier steps than they ever dreamed of? And is it not very likely it would be?

Thousands of centuries ago huge, very heavily armoured creatures were evolved. If anyone had at that time been watching the course of Evolution he would probably have expected that it was going to go on to heavier and heavier armour. But he would have been wrong.

The future had a card up its sleeve which nothing at that time would have led him to expect. It was going to spring on him little, naked, unarmoured animals which had better brains: and with those brains they were going to master the whole planet. They were not merely going to have more power than the prehistoric monsters, they were going to have a new kind of power.

The next step was not only going to be different, but different with a new kind of difference. The stream of Evolution was not going to flow on in the direction in which he saw it flowing: it was in fact going to take a sharp bend.

Now it seems to me that most of the popular guesses at the Next Step are making just the same sort of mistake. People see (or at any rate they think they see) men developing greater brains and getting greater mastery over nature. And because they think the stream is flowing in that direction, they imagine it will go on flowing in that direction. But I cannot help thinking that the Next Step will be really new; it will go off in a direction you could never have dreamed of. It would hardly be worth calling a New Step unless it did.

I should expect not merely difference but a new kind of difference. I should expect not merely change but a new method of producing the change. Or, to make an Irish bull, I should expect the next stage in Evolution not to be a stage in Evolution at all: should expect the Evolution itself as a method of producing change, will be superseded. And finally, I should not be surprised if, when the thing happened, very few people noticed that it was happening.

Now, if you care to talk in these terms, the Christian view is precisely that the Next Step has already appeared. And it is really new. It is not a change from brainy men to brainier men: it is a change that goes off in a totally different direction—a change from being creatures of God to being sons of God. The first instance appeared in Palestine two thousand years ago. In a sense, the change is not "Evolution" at all, because it is not something arising out of the natural process of events but something coming into nature from outside. But that is what I should expect."

Well at least scientists won't be bombing people in the name of "GOD". I for one am glad that we beat the Axis powers back in WW2, partly due to us nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

As for bombing cities, I'll withhold judgment on what people may due to garner scientific data, but this kind of thing can and did happen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation

And the sickest thing about it:

The alumni of Unit 731, the unit that prepared these weapons, became top bioweapons researchers and were not prosecuted as war criminals.

All in the name of science. But as I've said before, it does no good to compare body counts. Just accept that both sides are capable of, and have committed, unspeakable atrocities and move on.

 

[MONEYMUFFINS]

UNSEENWOMBAT: ALL YOU EVER DO IS TWIST MY WORDS AROUND. I HAVE ARGUED ONLY WHAT I KNOW.


NOT THAT YOU CARE, BECAUSE YOU'RE JUST GONNA MISINTERPRET MY WORDS AGAIN, BUT I'LL BOIL IT DOWN FOR YOU EVEN FURTHER: THERE'S A REASON WHY MOST HISTORIANS CONSIDER JESUS' CRUCIFIXION AN HISTORIC EVENT, BUT NOT THE RESURRECTION. IT IS SIMPLY A LACK OF EVIDENCE. AND ANYONE WHO MAKES AN ASSUMPTION WITH INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE IS WASTING MY TIME. I HAVE LEARNED NOTHING FROM YOU.

 

[Synraii]

Two things I'll add to this:

1. Making an argument and then sourcing wikipedia is not a good idea.
2. Science is proven. Prove to me there is a go... Oh snap, you can't.

 

[MONEYMUFFINS]

 

[KingAce]

Snip

Explain to me how evolution disapproves God? You can have your way with the Religious folk. But bring it over here, against someone how has absolutely no problem with Science, yet still affirms God.

 

[MONEYMUFFINS]

someone how has absolutely no problem with Science, yet still affirms God.

 

[Ramus]

Explain to me how evolution disapproves God? You can have your way with the Religious folk. But bring it over here, against someone how has absolutely no problem with Science, yet still affirms God.

Is this when people think that both cration and evolution complement each other,rigth??

 

[Lasercakes]

Science is the means by which people kill people for a religious or political ends, but I think it's retarded to argue about who has blood on their hands.

What I am saying is that religion is holding back our intelligence and critical thinking.

You can say this.

Since evolution has pushed us in that direction for the last 1 million years or so, it's safe to say that evolution is being stunted.

No. Evolution is what it is. It has no direction.

Look, if a disease doesn't get cured because of religious oppression, religion is actually a driving force in evolution. If the disease wipes out another group of humans the "fit" survive to continue the species. Science keeps making natural selection less and less of a factor.

Never did I once say that evolution is purpose driven. As far as humans are concerned, there is a "push" towards higher reasoning. That was all I meant by this.

Because dumber people are dropping left and right? There is no push.

Evolution is not always a progression upwards.

Exactly.

 

[UnseenWombat]

Is this when people think that both cration and evolution complement each other,rigth??

Yes, and for a long time I thought they didn't, but then I read that book by Collins, the head of the Human Genome Project, and it makes perfect sense. Even Lewis accepted evolution.

Moneymuffins, I twisted nothing. You said you had no problem ridiculing intelligent people who have faith in God. You called them liars. What other conclusion should I draw from that? Again, maybe a little humility and respect is in order. You say you have such an amazing understanding of people, yet you talk like you were raised by wolves. Does ridicule and open hostility to people who disagree with you really get you far in your social relations? I find it hard to believe.

Thanks for posting that video from before I discovered the wonders of A:6 lol. Not sure what it has to do with the discussion, but okay. Did you also record the one a couple months later where we went 3-2 and you barely pulled out the win in the last round?

 

[Lasercakes]

1. Making an argument and then sourcing wikipedia is not a good idea.

The argument is based on that the events listed happened, not the accuracy of the articles. If he links the Holocaust for the sake of mentioning the Holocaust you don't need to address credibility because he linked the Wikipedia article.

2. Science is proven. Prove to me there is a go... Oh snap, you can't.

We can't prove that there isn't a God either, but the burden of proof is on them.

Snip

You are taking Vince too seriously.

 

[UnseenWombat]

You are taking Vince too seriously.

Yeah, probably. But he seems to want to be taken seriously, here at least.