The B+K BE thread

Found something new guys. If you use b+k. Then During ein's cool down use b+k be. It will look like you just wasted your brave edge but sure enough ein will still come out.
 
Egg said:
Found something new guys. If you use b+k. Then During ein's cool down use b+k be. It will look like you just wasted your brave edge but sure enough ein will still come out.
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Known, setups I believe are in my guide under the wake-up section.

EDIT:
To further elaborate, it comes down to "Would I like to spend my meter on the B+K, 4B BE combo and then go for wake-up?" or "Is it worth applying a B+K BE setup here?" To help answer these questions it comes down to: How much health do they have left? How easily do they fall for Zwei's setups? How close are they when B+K connects, and were they hit on an angle? B+K does give alot of advanage vs wake-up and the B+K BE setups are some of the more reliable ones afterward.
 
I didn't see it anywhere in this thread but I'm sure that most of us have experimented with the numerous ways that B+K BE leads to knockdown and CE for some pretty good damage.

I have tested multiple moves and mix ups to try and find the best one for different situations, here are just a few that tend to catch people when I play online:

Note that most of these are for against people that expect the 214 B after they see UV!

UV 3BB CE /catches most people who try to instantly sidestep and back step at close range.

UV 33B CE /catches most back steps

UV 33A CE /catches sides steps and back steps at close range. Can be avoided with TE thought.

UV 4KB CE/ my personal favorite great for close range and seems to track enough to catch side steps. First got can be TC.

UV 4B CE

UV 6B(CH) CE/ fast high to catch quick reactions to UV can be TC.

UV delayed A+B CE /works great on plays who try to guard impact the first hit after UV.

There are plenty of other ways to lead into the CE but these are just some of the few I find to work in most situations.
 
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You want to avoid using the the B+K BE with stuns. Whenever you do this, the stun will reduce the damage significantly (unless you land KF B).
 
FenrisZero said:
Good Luck Landing Any Of These.
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Against most good players, yeah these won't land very often. I mainly just put these up here as few ways to get into the CE after B+K BE. Especially when you see people do a lot of the same stuff preceding UV, it always helps when something is thrown in they might not expect. But again, yeah these don't land very often.
 
Found a death Combo off of 4(A+B) on backdash counter.

B+K BE > 4(A+B) > Ein > CE > B+K BE > 1K > 1A = 243 ~ 250.

Without the CH the damage become 223 ~ 230.
With Attack CH damage becomes 235

if 4A+B gets clean hit then damage increases by 10 per clean hit.

Also, there appears to be a glitch with 4(A+B). If you do 4A+B(A+B), Zwei will do a slower charged 4A+B and then smack you with the non charged version. This move is much slower then the other 4A+B's. Maybe this would be useful post GI?

Edit : After some more testing, 4A+B(A+B) is different from the other two 4A+B's .
On hit this move creates a situation where your opponent can chose to tech or not. If they chose not to tech, 1K BE is guaranteed after 4A+B(A+B), if they do tech then your options are,

Throw Mixup
66A BE Vortex start up
214B/KF B GB
44(B) Slight charge to realign - step-able after tech.
Realign 66B
B+K BE

sadly 3AA is blockable on tech.
 
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I forgot to post this a long time ago.

You guys know how B+K BE > 214B > CE doesn't connect because Ein comes out too early after 214B? Well if you max hold (B+K) BE > 214B then it will look like they can block Ein but they actually can't, so from here CE will hit and pick them back up from the ground. With that said

(B+K) BE > 214B > Ein > CE > B+K BE > 1K > Ein > 1A = ~170dmg.

170 for an unblockable. It's pretty insane. Best part is it's totally viable in tournament match, and you only need to poke a few times to turn this UB into a kill combo and take the match.

My witness @Rocktopus
 
Lies. Just kidding. Yeah, It happened. You'd think id be shocked by it, but nah. ZWEI is OP and does too much damage. We need to nerf him, and aPat then buff Cerv.
 
Rocktopus said:
Lies. Just kidding. Yeah, It happened. You'd think id be shocked by it, but nah. ZWEI is OP and does too much damage. We need to nerf him, and aPat then buff Cerv.
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From your Cervantes mastery point of view, what can Zwei do against this MU? you know, other than eat aB all day
 
Zane said:
From your Cervantes mastery point of view, what can Zwei do against this MU? you know, other than eat aB all day
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66 B goes right through aB if you time it right. You can abuse the hell out of that and maybe use it with 4 [A] Ein to make it safer. 66 A+B is difficult to deal with too, that guard damage.... But a smart Cerv can abuse other moves besides aB.
 
Just here to drop combos

B+K BE > 66B+K > BT A+B It's uses his B+K as bait

(B+K) BE > 3AA Side step killer

B+K BE > 4KB > 66A+B Uses B+K as bait like first combo
 
Hey Wolfpack, wanted to go over some new finds and thoughts on B+K BE.

So what we know -
B+K be 214B unblockable
B+K be 3AA to discourage step
B+K be 66B to challenge backstep
B+K be 1K to hit grounded opponents
B+K be 11K to hit standing opponents (reactable)
B+K be AA/BB/2K/2A/9B/66B+K to try beat out opponent trying to interrupt
B+K be B+K to delay Ein but he does still come come out.
B+K be ein hit:2k 72 damage low mix up JF timing.
B+K be wait/side step/ backstep

So in short its a great move they see the yellow then they have to guess something, Step? attack? GI?

Well I got a few finds and ideas first with B+K BE hold.

Firstly the animations and start up frames are the same on B+K BE and B+K BE hold so its a guess if Ein will be the delayed one or not.

Lets look at B+K BE AA -
They block it fair enough they didn't step and BE blocked and we got abit of frame advantage so we could 66B or run up grab or something.

Now B+K BE hold AA -
Same situation AA blocked this time Ein hasn't came out straight away and that's what the opponent is waiting for so you get to attack again!
66B, 6A step forward 2K JF you have a a lot of options. If the second attack is blocked fair enough free guard damage and Ein will make the disadvantage less for you as well.

So B+K BE hold - immediate AA - A+B/6A/66B/Timed 2K Ein hit.

This worked because they are expecting Ein hit so they stay still as unable to step the Ein hit after AA if the none hold B+K BE was done.

This AA example is one of many, you can 9B. 2K, BB, 66K all these you can throw out to counter what the opponent does basically for free as they block for Ein giving you another attack.

so B+K BE hold - poke - something else - Ein hit

What I like is 2K, its basically free 16 damage when B+K BE is around if the opponent is staying still you can go into another one and hit that JF for 72 damage.
 
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Also here is something else I have found which uses the above.

B+K BE hold - 9B/3K/2K RCC - B+K

free poke and you can B+K which also means the B+K BE is held even more.

This could be your Mid mix up - B+K BE hold - 2k - RCC B+K into combo with Ein on the way

And your low mix up - b+k be hold - 2K - Ein hit:2K

If B+K is blocked it can bait an attack if they know that that Ein from B+k be will be cancelled if ZWEI blocks, so you could GI/JG/step/Backstep/66B+K around it.
 
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