The "near ground" state and pogo juggling

Asurendra

[08] Mercenary
Ive found something through tinkering with pogo, that surely is not the thing to break Mina, but is rather interesting, improves combo damage if it can be applied, and is the closest thing to a just frame she has for a technical showcasing. It actually is just expanding upon Khents find with 6K into 33KB, and establishing the general idea about whats technically happening, though i didnt realize it at first.
So the deal is, theres apparently a small opening when a launcher victim is falling, after the ability to air control is nulled, and before one can block attacks, wherein attacks will behave as if the victim is laying on/falling to the ground (based on the damage output coinciding and a later test i did, and I am unsure if Mina's launchers aren't the only cases like this.)
So, as luck (or possibly design) would have it, pogos can be used and abused on this sweet spot!

But of course, we cant find something new and potentially useful for Mina and have it be that simple;
The unfortunate: Pogo damage is roughly the same as putting 66B FC 1B in the combo. Might as well stick with that for tip ranged 3B/33B/44B and CH WS B.
The good: You can pogo juggle for the launchers where the 66B wouldnt work like that!
The bad: the 2nd pogo hit can be teched, the effort into this isnt even rewarded with a true combo, argh.
The fortunate: The above is obscure information, especially on a constantly underestimated character, who has a variety of strange knockdown traps each needing different funny things to have to do to escape, but even if it is known or figured out, techers can be caught by pogo variations.
The frustrating: This is difficult, the window is small with no clear indicator, and the only guideline we get is a falling opponent
The ugly: Its risky, mis-timing means air controlled or blocked pogos, either means we take a beating.

So those are the details and I haven't heard of anything else in SC4 behaving like this, though it could be other chars dont have any practical means for using the spot or their launchers dont work like that, or maybe there are other things like this and Im just a fool that doesn't keep up to date on all chars lol. I recall relaunchers in SC2, I didnt personally know how to perform but its possible the same kind of concept was applied back then. Thing is this feels like it needs some sort of special notation, its not an official JF but strict enough to warrant clarification about special timing, and save trouble to those who might be skimming and be misguidedly convinced to start pogo-ing wildly after launching. I'll precede the pogo command to be done while the opponent is "technically on the ground" with a semicolon.

mid ranged 3B_33B ;9B+KBB
mid ranged 44B ;9B+KBB
to catch tech right - ;9B+K6B -> leaves you up close with frame advantage

WS B ;8B+KB4B
33(K)B ;8B+KB4B
CH 6K ;8B+KB4B
to catch tech right - ;8B+K4B4B


I tested on Amy, Mina, and Astaroth, and verified with command capture that theres nothing screwy with the training dummy for this case, so you can practice by having 2nd command guard.
There could be character exceptions, let it be known if you stumble across one please.

I suspect the whole 33KB flip launch is related to this weird ground state as well..33KB obviously doesnt do that normally do on the ground opponents but when I set the training dummy to be grounded, and hit 33KB while it was halfway "falling" to the floor, it caused that specific launch type! Khent pointed out in the combo thread about 33KB hitting on normal launchers but with tight timing required to negate air control. The timing is the same point for the pogos so I'm pretty convinced this is whats going on, though i cant figure what kind of technical name it should have besides an ambiguous "near-ground". I'll go ahead put a refresher here, since the 33KB can make an easier/safer/potentially more damaging alternative or the fall back plan for techers.

closest to launch threshold 3B ;66~3KB
close range 44B ;33KB
6K ;33KB
WS B ;33KB
33(K)B ;33KB

So we've come up two ways to use this opening, and thats really seeming to be a nice coincidence though I'd like to think it was an obscured part of Mina's character traits- if it is indeed unique to her. I hope this can be of help for anyone wanting to tap into Mina's damage potential regardless of execution demand.


There is another bizarre thing Ive noticed but havent deducted anything about..BT B+K, firstly not listed on the movelist is up to two 7B_B_9B followup hits, like normal pogo except the initial hit has to connect in order to get the next..mostly useless since the only way the follow ups actually hit is being by a wall, otherwise its just additional spacing. The actual weird thing is the timing of mina turning her head around to look behind. If BT B+K normal hits, it stuns and she'll delay before the look-behind, as if she jumped over someone and whiffed a normal pogo..if its CH, she'll look behind immediately as if on a successful facing forward pogo..its weird anyway that normal pogos differenciate that way, but now we're getting both BT B+K hits having a different BT animation..its likely nothing but thats just strange.
 

krazySyko

[09] Warrior
How do we tell if we're doing it right? Set a computer to air control in some direction and see if training counts the 3 pogo hits as a combo?
 

Asurendra

[08] Mercenary
Actually you can use the dummy, with these settings

1st action normal
2nd action guard all
Ukemi: anything but right (unless testing the right side pogo variant)
Air control: backward right

if the pogos all hit you got it, additionally the dummy will Just Ukemi on the final hit if it ends with 4B