Things for a total SC noob to practice to become good?

joulisians said:
All I can add for now is that being good takes time and a hell lot of practice.
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But you could practice all day long and still learn nothing. It's a bit deeper than that. You need to realize which mistakes you are doing, better mix-ups, better mind game, etc.

It's very easy to become "stuck" on a fighting game. You play against the same people over and over, or even against spammers in ranked matches, and you don't really learn anything. You need to play against better players, so slowly you pick up habit, you enhance yours and you learn tricks and all that.

I played lots of SCIII, but always against the same people, so I was stuck. Now, thanks to online playing, I can join player matches and learn lots, even if that means I got to lose 30 games and just win 6.
 
Look through videos. Get some tips from these videos, pick out their mistakes, you may not need to make mistakes to learn, instead you can learn from other's mistakes.
 
As someone has said, you need to lose to other players to start getting better. As with many things in life, you can never improve yourself if you never make mistakes, as long as you learn from them. If online is the only way for you to play against other people, I recommend sticking with Player Matches, since there's a better chance of decent players in there as opposed to the many spammers that are in the Ranked Matches.
 
To Build Muscle, you Must cause the muscle damage. Tearing, roughly. Muscles tear a bit with use. Under strain. Like lifting weights. But. Every repair causes growth.

Same with getting better at these kinds of games. Gotta take your medicine if you want to get better.

As for online? I've complained a bit about lag and latency. But Yesterday, I played X online, and Hilde. Just to be different and see what would happen. I got creamed for 8 rounds, total. But I focused on GI's one round, and blocking incoming. Studying character animations and poked the other player to death. .... and It actually helped with my timing offline. Who knows. It can't hurt that much. There's some adjustment that needs to be made. I still have difficulty getting out of the way in time using 8WRs, and panicking a little when taki is pounding in AA and bomb mixups.

But. I watched some guy tear people APART with Ivy using every move in the book, and tosses, and throws, and things that just require a LOT of good timing. And that pretty much sold me on the fact that you CAN get better online. But keep in mind that offline the timing will be different.

Which can work to your detriment. If he's timing things even half a second slower... just keep in mind you have to speed it up a bit.

But lag really helps you actually analyze other characters' attack animations. Fun fun.
 
I don't know if it's been mentioned, I only read the first page, but you can't go in thinking you already know everything. If you watch vids of good players, don't chime in and say "why didn't you do this combo?" or "you should have done this cuz it always works on my boys" etc....

I know I was like that when i started trying to be competitive and basically, the moves I was using for mixups were unsafe or only good against total scrubs. Don't be an Arse, listen to advice given.

If you can, attend tournaments, play people in person. Like people said, Online is definitely not the place to judge your game or others, or the system.
 
Ok dumb question time, anyway I can improve my reaction time so that I can react faster to things happening on the field?
 
Practice. One idea I just thought of is you can get someone to play with you in a player match, but just have them do slow telegraphed moves and practice the different ways to defend and respond to them. If you want to practice breaking throws, against a more unpredictable opponent, try playing against an AI Rock-- you'll have throw break opportunities every other move he does.

If it's a matter of taking theory and actually applying them in a serious match; you just have to get it under your fingers. Play a lot more, and soon you'll be comfortable with thinking about every little thing that goes on in a match.
 
emo_prinny said:
Ok dumb question time, anyway I can improve my reaction time so that I can react faster to things happening on the field?
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Pretty easy, actually. Go into training against a character who you want to improve your reaction time against, set him on really hard and then once the match starts consistently give the computer the aggression. Allow the computer to make the first move and work on your defense. It sounds like that's what you're lacking and by allowing yourself to only practice defense (let the computer attack first) you will get better at this skill faster. You can also do that in real matches, which will have more benefit if your opponent is more aggressive than the computer. That can also allow you to practice responses to individual attacks as well, but you can do that in training just as easily with command sequences so that specific task should be reserved for hard-to-defend combos.

One other good way to practice this is to close the space between you and your opponent consistently in battles. Initially this is going to get your ass kicked hard because if you don't have good defense (like it seems you're indicating) you'll just get pounded into the ground. When you reach the capability to close the distance and initiate combat with a parry, dodge, sidestep or the like your response time will be up to snuff for an initiation.

As for ukemi and recovery, playing against high level characters and asking them "hey how can I dodge that combo" (you can surf the forums for these answers too) should be sufficient knowledge, and the execution is really just according to how comfortable you are with the matchup and defending the specific combos being executed against you. A good mantra is to always air control or you're going to get hit by stuff that shouldn't hit, and always dedicate to a ground control strategy for each air juggle you experience because it's likely there is a single response and a time period for this response that you just don't know and have to figure out for each character. It's a lot of knowledge and a little execution, the execution becomes a lot easier with the knowledge.
 
emo_prinny said:
Ok dumb question time, anyway I can improve my reaction time so that I can react faster to things happening on the field?
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I'm going to try and save you some time here, Emo...

Play ALOT.

Honestly, you won't have the reaction time of half the people on this board until you've played as much as they have. More essential than knowing what is coming at you is knowing what should come at you. When you see people GI'ing, countering, frame trapping, and all that jazz, it's usually not because they're really fast or have great reaction times, but rather because they've had it done to them a zillion times or they've done it to someone else a zillion times. Your brain will eventually recognize patterns in the match and you'll get spidey senses about things that a n00b would never be able to see or react to.

That said, I always believed in playing the roster to help your reaction time when you're first starting out. In SCII I could GI crap with my eyes closed because I knew every character's moves and tactics to look out for (because I had done it to someone else many times). It's easier to see something coming if you can put yourself in your opponent's shoes. While I'm not saying you need to go through every character's moves lists, I think you'd definitely benefit from learning the characters that give you the hardest time (if you can't beat 'em, join 'em....then steal all their secrets and kick their ass later).

There's some other good stuff in this thread, though some of these training techniques seem a bit excessive for someone just starting out. Just remember: ask questions (but for the love of GOD be critical about what you hear, there's more misinformation on the internet for this game than there is good information) , be patient, enjoy the game, and always enjoy losing as long as it teaches you something. Also try to remember that only you know yourself so don't get frustrated if you follow some of these suggestions and you don't see any noticeable improvement.

Cheers.
 
I am a newbie myself, but I want to leave my impressions so far.

I generally play with the same people, this week however, I managed to make some time to join players I had never played with before.

I don't how bad were their impressions of me, but despite both sessions not during that long, I must say that it gave a complete different idea of the game and of how it is played, high level.

Even though lag can be annoying sometimes, if you don't know people in your area to play with (like me), go a lot online and try to play with the best. It may bring a lot of frustation in the beginning, but the results will be worthwhile.

Work hard on your favorite character(s), but don't lose sight of the others. Get to know their moves as well, so that you learn what to expect from them.

Finally, dedication is the key. Enjoy playing and learning every day. Keep yourself motivated and when you need some support, just find a mate you can relax while gaming with.

*cheers*

Angel
 
I guess every one of us came from being a noob to where we are now.

I started out losing, just randomly spamming moves from Ivy. Which was why I eat alot of CH and other crap.

Initially I was afraid to play against some of the players in my community because I'm afraid to lose. But I got over that and I played with some of the best players in our community. And generally over time, I got better with the help of them and their tips.
 
I'll be frank. Reaction times (the amount of time it takes you to register an event and react to it) are inherent to a person, much like reflex speed. Certain factors like drowsiness, how relaxed you are, if you're nervous, etc. can AFFECT your reaction time, but you cannot "practice" and improve it.

However, what you CAN do is to drill certain sequences and animations into your memory, so that they become part of muscle memory and instinct. Let's use an example. Say for instance, you're getting creamed by Taki's bombs a lot. Go into practice mode, set the computer to freestyle, recorded playback for the bombs. Block it. A lot. Start seeing what you can do to punish it. This is boring as hell, but what you're doing is you're getting your brain to imprint that animation in its memory.

This is similar to what blitz chess champions do - they play a lot of games and they analyze where they went wrong and fix the mistakes for next time. They don't play games by analyzing every single possible move each turn - that'd take too long. They play by a combination of quick local analysis, and memory/instinct.

The same can be applied to fighting games - your goal is to play a lot (and play correctly!) to get that experience you need so that you can recognize situations by instinct rather than just relying on pure reaction speed. The subconscious brain is many many times faster than the conscious mind. Think about it - how long does it take you to realize if you recognize someone off the street? For people you see every day, the recognition is near instantaneous. THAT kind of speed is what you're aiming to get by seeing the animations and practicing the proper responses. If you instinctively know how to "do the right thing", then you no longer have to worry about the execution (your muscle memory will take care of that) - and instead you can focus on quick local analysis for mindgames/mixups instead.

TL;DR: Practice lots. Practice properly and be analytical about your mistakes and successes. WHY something works is very important to understand. And lastly, a buddy never hurts. :)
 
selece said:
I'll be frank. Reaction times (the amount of time it takes you to register an event and react to it) are inherent to a person, much like reflex speed. Certain factors like drowsiness, how relaxed you are, if you're nervous, etc. can AFFECT your reaction time, but you cannot "practice" and improve it.

However, what you CAN do is to drill certain sequences and animations into your memory, so that they become part of muscle memory and instinct. Let's use an example. Say for instance, you're getting creamed by Taki's bombs a lot. Go into practice mode, set the computer to freestyle, recorded playback for the bombs. Block it. A lot. Start seeing what you can do to punish it. This is boring as hell, but what you're doing is you're getting your brain to imprint that animation in its memory.
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thats pretty much a fallacy. reflex speed, reaction speed can all be trained its part of muscle memory. there's a reason boxers use speed bags and athletes train explosive exercises. granted some people have better reflexes naturally, not everyone is gifted in all areas. but you can train reaction and reflexes. its easier if your are younger, but fully matured adults can increase their reaction time.

Emo: if you want to increase your reaction speed my best advice would be to train moves you use as speed moves to the point that you know them and you don't have to think about using them. if you want to train against a move I can only say play more. one thing that helps my overall reaction speed/timing is training hit confirmation. i did this with SF:3S, just going into practice mode and putting on the random guard setting and trying to land my hit confirm combos. the closer to 100% hit confirmation you can get the better. you can probably do the same thing with SC, though i don't have a method written out for SC. all this relies on your execution being close to 100%. if you flub a combo or find yourself missing a move it comes back to having imperfect execution usually.

all that said, you don't want to rely too much on reflex. i'll use another SF analogy here. being able to dragon punch on reaction is nice being able to "psychic dp" is better. learning to read an opponent and how they attack and react allows you to formulate a game plan or allows you to enforce your own game plan.
 
Read: The amount of time it takes you to _consciously_ register an event and react to it is fixed.

Athletes train a specific motion as a muscle memory response so it comes _unconsciously_ - so they DON'T have to think about it - and that's the same thing you should be trying to accomplish with practice.

We're probably saying the same thing, but tripping over semantics.
 
One thing I've found helps me is if there is a character in particular that I'm having a lot of problems against, I learn how to play that character. Learn the combos that catch you and where they hit (high/mid/low). Play against an AI opponent and try using those moves and combos in the middle of combat, then play against other players and see how they open up holes in your defense. Then when you go back to your main character, things will be more familiar to you and you will have a much easier time learning how to defend against them. After a while, you won't have a main character.

I really don't think it's possible to master any character without mastering all characters. You have to know your moves as well as your opponents, and where weaknesses are in both characters so you can minimize the amount of times you leave yourself open and maximize on how often you capitalize on your opponent's mistakes.
 
selece said:
Read: The amount of time it takes you to _consciously_ register an event and react to it is fixed.

Athletes train a specific motion as a muscle memory response so it comes _unconsciously_ - so they DON'T have to think about it - and that's the same thing you should be trying to accomplish with practice.

We're probably saying the same thing, but tripping over semantics.
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a reflex is defined as an involuntary reaction to a stimulus. reflexes can be trained, most commonly using classical conditioning-think Pavlov and his dogs. as far as "reaction time" -time between visual stimulus and actual confirmation, that can also be trained. we're talking about things happening in increments of milliseconds though so its hard to decrease your own visual lag simply because of the scale. the average visual "lag" in human beings is 215ms according to http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/index.php. give it a try. please don't comment about, online lag, wireless mice, monitor refresh, etc. i know.

As far as semantics go, i disagree that reflex, conscious registration, etc. are inborn traits that can't be changed...you can teach speed you can't teach 7'8".

I do agree that anticipation is better than reaction.
 
emo_prinny said:
Ok my question for today, when you're playing are you focusing more on the other players character or your own?

I find myself watching my own character more which I have a hunch is not what I am supposed to be doing, but figured I would ask anyway.
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I can't help but comment on this, even if it is a bit late in the thread. Anyone that has done some reading on how the eye works, and most especially how reflexes are learned by the brain, cannot fail to be fascinated by the examples given by the experience of learning a fighting game.

Any time you are learning a new fighting game, or a new character in that game, you will tend to watch your own character more than the opponent's character. This is VERY OK and part of the natural learning process, as you are more concerned with learning how to operate your character. You're throwing in some input on the controls, and then checking to see if that input has gotten the appropriate response from your character. Attempt to 'skip' this part of the hand-eye learning process, which has been painfully developed over the last couple of million years, at your own peril.

Once you've been fighting for a bit, of course, you start to 'set in' with a handful of moves that are working for you. The more comfortable you are with your character's move, the less need you feel to visually check (talking fractions of a second here) to see if that move has been performed correctly. Your neural pathways have been burned in, and you become more and more capable of devoting your visual attention away from watching your own character to watching your opponent's character. This transition is gradual, and in my opinion not something to be 'forced' or 'trained for', just something you may notice if you are paying real attention to your own perceptions of the game as your skills increase through time and practice.

Eventually, once you have mastered a character's moves, your own character will become effectively 'invisible' to you on the screen, and you will see ONLY your opponent. Your character no longer exists to you because in your brain's mind, you ARE your character. And that's when, in my opinion, you have graduated from training, and are truly entering the arena of The Fight. And what happens from there... well, it can't be described, because it's always different for every person, and always different for every Fight.

Good luck getting there, man. Win or lose, The Fight is always a cool rush, a Good Place to Be. There's Always Someone Better Than You. Your job is to seek them out and defeat them. Nuff sed.
 
1der said:
a reflex is defined as an involuntary reaction to a stimulus. reflexes can be trained, most commonly using classical conditioning-think Pavlov and his dogs. as far as "reaction time" -time between visual stimulus and actual confirmation, that can also be trained. we're talking about things happening in increments of milliseconds though so its hard to decrease your own visual lag simply because of the scale. the average visual "lag" in human beings is 215ms according to http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/index.php. give it a try. please don't comment about, online lag, wireless mice, monitor refresh, etc. i know.

As far as semantics go, i disagree that reflex, conscious registration, etc. are inborn traits that can't be changed...you can teach speed you can't teach 7'8".

I do agree that anticipation is better than reaction.
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cool site...i got an average of 211 ms from 5 tries.
 
Spacing is extremely important. If you can find a char w/good reach (let's say Cass's 3b) you can work wonders. I've beaten many people in SC2/3 by out spacing them. They miss a move, be RIGHT outside their reach and hit them. Also, do not panic. Many times, newcomers will start losing and then lose their mind on offense, just throwing out move after move. Veterans will most of the time hit you w/moves and they know exactly what they can do from there. You can learn a LOT in practice mode, WAY more than you can online IMO
 
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