Top 3 characters by Keev, Akire, Daishi, Hyrul, and RTD from World Finals

but i guess in this community you have to do well in a tournament for a character to be good, sieg low tier my ass.

I thought Sieg was pretty popular in Japan? So he does good in their tourneys, I had heard before one of their majors came down to Siegfried mirror. Along with Tira, apparently she did incredible which is what led to her whole nerf fiasco.
 
I thought Sieg was pretty popular in Japan? So he does good in their tourneys, I had heard before one of their majors came down to Siegfried mirror. Along with Tira, apparently she did incredible which is what led to her whole nerf fiasco.
Just check the sieg section on this forum and you will see everyone crying about how bad sieg is, i said he was very good, and they chew me up like i was a gum and then throw me out in the garbage lol.
 
Just check the sieg section on this forum and you will see everyone crying about how bad sieg is, i said he was very good, and they chew me up like i was a gum and then throw me out in the garbage lol.

I think that's how this forum gets it's reputation though, the character forums are filled with loyal zealots who either cry about how bad their character is, or cry about how good everyone else is. I fought a really good Siegfried at NCR and thought it was absolute bullshit, it could be that i simply didnt know the match up. But his mix ups, range, and damage made him look VERY solid. It could be a case like you said of the player making the character, but Siegfried has always given me trouble.
 
I think that's how this forum gets it's reputation though, the character forums are filled with loyal zealots who either cry about how bad their character is, or cry about how good everyone else is. I fought a really good Siegfried at NCR and thought it was absolute bullshit, it could be that i simply didnt know the match up. But his mix ups, range, and damage made him look VERY solid. It could be a case like you said of the player making the character, but Siegfried has always given me trouble.
Ok if his that bad, how come i used like 5 or 6 moves in the tourney, and manage to win, ups i said it, look at the video and see how dominant that char is, he has like a barrier that doesnt let you in and once you are in he has safe pokes so he can manage after a while he just pushes you back again, cause his sieg you know, LOW TIER MY ASS, and his damage well lets not even go there.
 
Ok if his that bad, how come i used like 5 or 6 moves in the tourney, and manage to win, ups i said it, look at the video and see how dominant that char is, he has like a barrier that doesnt let you in and once you are in he has safe pokes so he can manage after a while he just pushes you back again, cause his sieg you know, LOW TIER MY ASS, and his damage well lets not even go there.

Exactly, its one of those cases where it seems like he has total control of his effective range. He has moves that push you back on block for his best positioning, have surprisingly good frames considering how far they go, and still deal a ton of damage. His kicks in particular are fast and damaging when he is in his stances which are a mix up nightmare, he transitions so quickly and at any moment he could use some fast attack that will net him a good chunk of damage.
 
Tiers are formed based on a characters tools and their performance in tournaments. What matters most are results and actual data, this is how tiers get formed in the first place.
Well-

from my understanding, tiers are supposed to be based on raw matchup data. If you have favorable matchups and tools for fighting every single character in the game, you are high tier. If you have to get creative and actively work to bypass your opponent's tools, you're on a lower tier.

Tournament performance... I don't think tournament performance should factor into tiers. Tiers are supposed to be divorced from the human element given that they only apply to hypothetical perfect players and I think there's a lot of confusion regarding them.

An ease of use list, a tournament results list, and a tier list are three completely different things. I think so.

Even if your character is low tier, or you have a bad matchup against a character, that doesn't (personally) mean anything to me. You play against a human, they have weaknesses like everyone else, so you end up having to play the player, instead of playing the character, exploiting his own personal tendencies and patterns. You see Omega himself do this in SCIV, on paper every matchup is bad, but Zasalamel is pulling through and nobody knows why. Well, maybe Omega does.

I don't think Nightmare is the best, or in the best of the best. He has holes in his game. From my viewpoint, those weaknesses have not been properly, consistently exploited, time after time, ruthlessly, 100%. People are letting Nightmare get away with literal murder.

For all the talk about how Nightmare is broken or OP, people seem to run away from studying and analyzing the matchup and working on how they can win.

To say that Nightmare is great is to downplay the abilities of the players behind him. IMHO.

(PS, I liked your performance at NCR. I wanna see more of your play in the future.)
 
Well-

from my understanding, tiers are supposed to be based on raw matchup data. If you have favorable matchups and tools for fighting every single character in the game, you are high tier. If you have to get creative and actively work to bypass your opponent's tools, you're on a lower tier.

Tournament performance... I don't think tournament performance should factor into tiers. Tiers are supposed to be divorced from the human element given that they only apply to hypothetical perfect players and I think there's a lot of confusion regarding them.

An ease of use list, a tournament results list, and a tier list are three completely different things. I think so.

Even if your character is low tier, or you have a bad matchup against a character, that doesn't (personally) mean anything to me. You play against a human, they have weaknesses like everyone else, so you end up having to play the player, instead of playing the character, exploiting his own personal tendencies and patterns. You see Omega himself do this in SCIV, on paper every matchup is bad, but Zasalamel is pulling through and nobody knows why. Well, maybe Omega does.

I don't think Nightmare is the best, or in the best of the best. He has holes in his game. From my viewpoint, those weaknesses have not been properly, consistently exploited, time after time, ruthlessly, 100%. People are letting Nightmare get away with literal murder.

For all the talk about how Nightmare is broken or OP, people seem to run away from studying and analyzing the matchup and working on how they can win.

To say that Nightmare is great is to downplay the abilities of the players behind him. IMHO.

(PS, I liked your performance at NCR. I wanna see more of your play in the future.)

Oh how informative. And the raw match up data explains why i absolutely despise nightmare and think he's so good. He is such a bad match up against Viola. At least in my experience, fighting him with her is always an uphill battle. His A+B red bubble reflects most of my pressure, i only have 4 maybe 5 moves that go over 20 damage in a single hit so i have to play him knowing he has that option whenever he wants to go for it.

And thanks =) I do intend to play again, it was a lot of fun fighting against such great players. I can say without a doubt that going made me a better player. In all honesty i was pretty scrubby going in. People were telling me to space mitsurugi and make him whiff and it seemed like such an impossible task, now i at least have a game plan when going against him. It definitely made me a better player just by experiencing it and getting to play everyone there. I just need to find out when the next event is that is within the California area.
 
"If you know your enemy and you know yourself , you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles. If you do not know your enemies but you know yourself, you will win one and lose one. If you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."

Sun Tzu was talking about Tier lists in the 6th century BC. :P
 
Do you think he's as bad as they say?

Define "they". Either way, I saw rushdown 3(B)/1K, 66k(BE), and an absurd amount of successful B+K auto-GI from Omega - not so much safe pokes and spacing. I think he gives far too much credit to the character - like Daishi said, the player makes Siegfried good, not the other way around.
 
Define "they". Either way, I saw rushdown 3(B)/1K, 66k(BE), and an absurd amount of successful B+K auto-GI from Omega - not so much safe pokes and spacing. I think he gives far too much credit to the character - like Daishi said, the player makes Siegfried good, not the other way around.
6k, 1k,66k, B6, 9k,3B, and 22A, 3K, 2A, now tell me, wich of this moves is HI punisheable um 2 A maybe but thats why you use itfrom long range.
 
Oh how informative. And the raw match up data explains why i absolutely despise nightmare and think he's so good. He is such a bad match up against Viola.

Viola having a bad matchup with him doesn't make him overpowered. Characters with strong punisher's like Pyrrha and those with safe TC mids will give him alot of trouble.

Also A+B won't "revenge" on low hits, so if their spamming the move just low kick them or throw. Its not something that NM can really throw out haphazardly because its -20 on block.
 
6k, 1k,66k, B6, 9k,3B, and 22A, 3K, 2A, now tell me, wich of this moves is HI punisheable um 2 A maybe but thats why you use itfrom long range.

3(B), 1K, 9K, 66k(BE). Again, spacing does play a part, but for characters that can punish them well (Pyrrha, Pat, Ω, α) spacing doesn't really matter.
 
Stupid me. It seems it takes only so much to derail any 8wr thread into patch wishlist thread. Or is it tier thread? Im confused now.
Just FYI Im not implying any of the top placers placed b/c of characters.

Hopefully Namco announced a new patch on 17 or 19 april (at least thats what Talim_JP said from japanese SC websire), so we'll see soon.
 
Viola having a bad matchup with him doesn't make him overpowered. Characters with strong punisher's like Pyrrha and those with safe TC mids will give him alot of trouble.

Also A+B won't "revenge" on low hits, so if their spamming the move just low kick them or throw. Its not something that NM can really throw out haphazardly because its -20 on block.

Yeah, which is why i just said he seems that way when i'm fighting him. And you say it wont work on any lows at all?

Hmm. That will definitely help against him then. I know that nightmare has his share of bad match ups so it works both ways. Only person i dont know of who has a bad match up is Mitsu and Pyrrha. They seem too well rounded to have any specific problems from other characters, but i'm sure there is something.
 
3(B), 1K, 9K, 66k(BE). Again, spacing does play a part, but for characters that can punish them well (Pyrrha, Pat, Ω, α) spacing doesn't really matter.
Thats what you say see, i dont think omega pyrra can beat sieg or even pyrra, nightmare fucks them up and night is way more unsafe than sieg, but its no use explaining ive beaten pyrras , nighmare, omega pyrras, with sieg, and i dont play with scrubs so i think you should check what you are doing wrong.
 
Thats what you say see, i dont think omega pyrra can beat sieg or even pyrra, nightmare fucks them up and night i way more unsafe than sieg, but its no use explaining ive beaten pyrras , nighmare, omega pyrras, with sieg, and i dont play with scrubs so i think you should check what you are doing wrong.

Man, I am enjoying this conversation.
 
Thats what you say see, i dont think omega pyrra can beat sieg or even pyrra, nightmare fucks them up and night i way more unsafe than sieg, but its no use explaining ive beaten pyrras , nighmare, omega pyrras, with sieg, and i dont play with scrubs so i think you should check what you are doing wrong.

Again, I think you give the character far too much credit. And I also take full responsibility for my losses, regardless of character choice.

I really hope they give you Zasalamel back soon.
 
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