Unused Nightmare tools

SonofSiegfried

[08] Mercenary
I would just like to disscuss tools that Nightmare has that you don't see used very often. For me its got to be 1B. I find it to be one of my best tools for mix-ups, but I dont see other Nightmares using it.
 

Nine-L

[10] Knight
That's because 1B is bad. Easy to step with high recovery on whiff, easy to block on reaction, and is unsafe there too. I think it might have that pseudo-safety if you place it at tip range, but any slight movement to the left or right from your opponent and this move whiffs.

And it's definitely not a mix-up tool on players at intermediate levels and higher; it's as easy to react to as 1A. It probably just seems like a mix-up because of the "WTF was that move?" fact since it rightfully goes virtually unimplemented. It's one purpose in the world is as an opener against the 85% of online players who think they're clever because they start every round with a backdash. Keep in mind, this move does kill backdash like a mofo, but loses super hard to walking backwards. I think it might do okay against backroll too.

His not-seen-very-often-but-actually-useful moves are pretty much things like BB/2B/9K/4K. I really like his BB. Encourages step attempts without being overly terrible, puts them in crouch on block which lends some predictability to the situation. It's nice.
 

Divined

[09] Warrior
That's because 1B is bad. Easy to step with high recovery on whiff, easy to block on reaction, and is unsafe there too. I think it might have that pseudo-safety if you place it at tip range, but any slight movement to the left or right from your opponent and this move whiffs.

And it's definitely not a mix-up tool on players at intermediate levels and higher; it's as easy to react to as 1A. It probably just seems like a mix-up because of the "WTF was that move?" fact since it rightfully goes virtually unimplemented. It's one purpose in the world is as an opener against the 85% of online players who think they're clever because they start every round with a backdash. Keep in mind, this move does kill backdash like a mofo, but loses super hard to walking backwards. I think it might do okay against backroll too.

His not-seen-very-often-but-actually-useful moves are pretty much things like BB/2B/9K/4K. I really like his BB. Encourages step attempts without being overly terrible, puts them in crouch on block which lends some predictability to the situation. It's nice.
Well it works if you do [1A] ~ K 1B opponent jumps KND thats if the player tries to jump over the guard crush and you hit them into a guaranteed combo. I think the purpose of this attack when I use it, and I do use it rarely at a high level because of its long range it can take people off guard, its not all block on react it can be used for countering and for unexpected traps and 4K is a move i see often.

What good nightmare players do should use that I rarely see is 6K,2A,9K,66A GS B,(up against a wall) FC B+G W! 44K 44KBE (tech trap yeah people usually ukemi if not just change it around to make it less predictable) [3B] < Possible tech trap combo chance; if tech trap = [3B] NSS bA trap W! 3B/2A+B depending on the position of the stun.

Also its easy to use his special A+B GI counter attack against viola's variety of pokes and orb attacks.
 
2B, 1B, 2A, and wr A are completely under appreciated.

1B is for long-distance wakeup and whiff punishment outside of 33b range, and also for backdash handling.

2B is just so damn good on wakeup and as a tip range poke.

2A has better tracking than 1K, and is otherwise just as good.

WR A has insane range, is completely safe with some pushback, is hard to step, high damage, and is fast for what it does. It also does more damage than his other FC/WR options. You should be whiff punishing ducked highs with this if you can, like Algol's 6bb.
 

Azazel

[12] Conqueror
I'm curious about what you guys think about 66B+K, I don't use it at all and have seen very few NM using it with no success.
 

Azazel

[12] Conqueror
It does some decent guard damage but I think you can easily step it (not sure tho). Doesn't it punish lows? I recall this move from SCIII and back there it was good to avoid and punish lows
 

Schneider-X

[11] Champion
66B+K's TJ frames start on frame 13, so as long as you use it at frame advantage you will be able to jump over most fast lows. It does decent guard damage, but its not capable of actually guard breaking. :(
 

Nine-L

[10] Knight
B-b-but FC 3B has frame 1 TC and only does 8 less damage.
I'll go for rising A depending on ring positioning for an RO if needed. The appeal of rising A is that it's way safer on block (though it can be ducked) and that I've never seen it stepped. You also get the attack throw at all ranges. It's a really good move but it's random fuck up rate seems very high. It doesn't replace FC 3B, but it has it's purpose.
 

Wandrian

I don't know.
66B+K's TJ frames start on frame 13, so as long as you use it at frame advantage you will be able to jump over most fast lows. It does decent guard damage, but its not capable of actually guard breaking. :(
Doesn't the third hit guard burst? I thought the first two hits couldn't but the third could.
 

Divined

[09] Warrior
Yeah also to note WR A is easier to react but is good for side stepping, while FC 3B is good for range and harder to react to since it can be used in frame advantage, while WR A has slower start up frames FC 3B is better for strings. Don't rely and play it completely by frame data though, there are range differences and angles that work for better positions.
 

Slade

[14] Master
WR A's best use I've found is catching movement after blocking a force crouch attack. Since the most common reactions to being forced into crouch is FC A or FC K, backdashing after a force crouch is usually an effective way to bait a whiff, but WR A counters that.
 

damn-I-Suck

[12] Conqueror
Is WR A a TC? If so, that makes it even better than I previously thought :)

I'm only asking this because I swear it ducked under a high last night. I might be trippin' though :)
 

Schneider-X

[11] Champion
Is WR A a TC? If so, that makes it even better than I previously thought :)

I'm only asking this because I swear it ducked under a high last night. I might be trippin' though :)
I don't think there are any TC frames for WR A. FC 3B has TC from frames 1-18 though!