Use for A+K?

I guess I'll dive back in after all. ^_^ Your explanation for your use of A+K is not specific at all and you're still not addressing the argument. My argument is:

A+K does shit for damage, gives you slight advantage on hit, has terrible range, and can be punished severely on whiff. I posit that there are several other moves that deal more damage, earn more advantage on hit, have better, and/or are much harder to punish on whiff.

You're just giving a fuzzy explanation, wherein you argue that it will work when YOU want it to and when no other move will be better in terms of damage, priority, advantage, position, etc. You say things like, "when I KNOW he'll attack" or "when he's getting off the ground and others move won't work" which explain nothing about specifically using A+K and what advantages it gives you over other moves. By explaining in this way, you almost claim to have some kind of amazing yomi. And if you can anticipate your opponents aggressiveness so well, then think back to those situations and tell me how much more advantage (damage, position, etc.) you would've gotten had you used something meatier than A+K to get them So, if you want to continue this, then explain why A+K is better than any other move. Give real explanations, not fuzzy ones where A+K is the one true answer, please. Compare A+K to other moves in these situations and consider laying out in numbers why A+K is better.

Furzy below agrees that A+K is risky (as much as GI attempt) and that there are better options.

Btw, unless SCIV is at EVO, I have no reason to go there. I may go to that FL tourney. A friendly MM is fine if we ever meet. I don't think a Yoshi v. Yoshi really proves who is the best Yoshi, though.
 
Oh boy..hehehe


1st off, yes i DO have amazing Yomi with Yoshi when its ONLY Yoshi and no other character i am using, as in total Yoshi concentration/Yomi etc.... maybe that's why (when i do decide to use it, flash) i get good results, regardless IMO Yoshi is that type of character to begin with he is NOTHING at all like any of the other characters in the game(think raven in tekken..get my point!!?)..lots of the other cast are just run 'n gun; throw this out its easy and safe and this and that brain dead this brain dead that etc..not all but most of 'em


Hajime: i am going to ask nicely about this cause well you keep saying somehow i don't know what it is about whether it'd be Yoshi himself..or A+K chit chat but..I KNOW the move does SHIT damage..gee lemme think, oh yea you forgot to tell me that it has very poor range too!!? lol..but lets just assume /pretend i didn't know that either.. !!THERE!!..it has been ADDRESSED and with a bit of rhetorical sarcasm to boot!

i gave Fuzzy information? ..dude your really throwing me off here with these reply's, i gave thorough explanation of how i feel/use, and KNOW where it has effectiveness..what you gonna use flash from the other side of the screen??..coz i don't see it being effective at all like that and so far away..use it for what it can do..stop digging into me and the thread discussion..if you don't like the move, is there really any reason to respond about it here?..no..other HAVE found uses of it, because they aren't trying to see if there is some kind of secret ingredients to the move..don't break it apart ..use it for what it IS and what it CAN do...

there is no trick no secret NOTHING..just use Yoshi's ENTIRE game in close and out, and eventually you will find A+K's GOOD/EFFECTIVE uses AROUND the rest of his game(NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND LIKE YOU KEEP MANIPULATING MY WORDS).. and yea i'll say it again..my Yomi is good with Yoshi, along with understanding and explored/used everything he has at one time or another in all areas..and if you think i can just type that all out like an Essay your quite mistaken if that be the case.. I gave examples for all to use and try out scenarios move sets etc..i opened the door..now walk through the hell through it...i wrote it in plain english, granted its parted up from the past couple of posts but thats what threads are for talking/information..take it how you want it, like it; don't like, whatever.

And last and final, STOP telling me about what i say or what I'm not saying/clarifying..I KNOW what I'm talkin' about, and now I'm sure you know too you just keep ignoring me(reads the top of this post now for at least the 2nd time i responded in knowing what EXACTLY your saying, please stop breaking down a move i know about..you are the one misreading here...

Again, your putting words into my mouth.. when the hell did i EVER say A+K over everything else in the game!@!???...WHEN!!!!!? i mentioned when it can be APPLIED or used when you know when its available to you or when you sense they will attack...hence Yomi(hey your the one who brought it up not me!!)....i gave areas where A+K can shine very well(the no auto GI), but don't take my advise or attempt..what you call "fuzzy" is just a mirage that you cover your trying to cover my info up with i gave (And as you asked of me too!) where it can be "APPLIED" and which match ups it can be "USED" in more often than other match ups..but whatever YOU are def the one not paying attention here.

i also gave a specific example of where you can use flash in replacement of other things..hence when they DON'T fall for anything else you try, and a A+K comes in handy in some of these area's...Hence if you got a brain the translation is "DON'T ABUSE IT" ..find your comfort with it in this regard...DON'T be afraid to use a move that has "potential" just because its not great on recovery, well if your not "PLACING" it to proper using, than your using it wrong..

DO you see Nasty Cervy's NOT using !GDR or the just frame spinning thing he does because its punishable? nope, there is the answer, and its hella fast to for Cervy

lastly, I'm gonna say it one more time so you can understand BETTER where the heck I'm coming from..A+K is the FASTEST move in the game.. Hajime, i know your the type of person to throw out a punishable move(on block that is) and get punished for it or you just get trumped by another move because you will use a move that is totally interruptible as its coming out by ANOTHER faster move cause you chose to use a move that is slower in that fashion..but..IMO and experience..FASTER is better for Yoshi than SLOWER(as far as chip damage goes with heavy advantage), and i gave examples of those things ..sorry it was cluttered BUT, you kept asking me questions left and right like i was under a spot light or something so everything got cluttered....stop looking too deep into this, i think that's what's going on here, lol..i use the move for its speed and outcome from what i get outta the non auto GI version

now i got a question for you...what do you mean by "slight advantage on hit"..now i already know what its meaning is in THIS game at least..but i wanna see your version as far as Yoshi's A+K on hit goes..now mind everyone(and you too Hajime in case you missed it in one of my posts), i have already explained it gives Yoshi a ton of advantage to work with and leaves the opponent laying on the ground for whatever i wanna use on 'em from that point on..to me thats a TON of advantage for him... but you say "slight" advantage ..oh please elaborate for me , cause when I get A+K(non auto GI version) on hit.. it knocks them right to the ground helpless..but with your words you say differently, so please explain...Cause your explanation is simple enough to understand on A+K and how you feel about it too boot..DID I MISS WHAT YOU MEANT IN YOUR ARGUMENT AGAIN!!?.. but i think(your explanation) is dry or rather watered down version of how at least you see it..which from my experience it has "POTENTIAL", where i see the move as a pot of gold and where i like to "APPLY" and able to use it with positive results... and I shared some things on who/when/where it can be used...dude i even gave a percentage rate if you use it the way it should be used if its going to be used at ALL..so(DON'T TURN THIS PART AROUND AND SAY I SAID AGAIN ,A+K>WHATEVER MOVE YOSHI HAS..just don't), its wrong and you already did it more than once...we are talking about A+K so don't bring anything else into the subject..the name of the thread topic is "USE FOR A+K"....RIGHT!!!!?..or is that something else i missed?

BUT, it also looks like you IGNORED your OWN words of CONTRADICTION by saying "ala scrub" only does a attack in a scenario vs Yoshi off the ground(WHICH I HAVE SEEN YOU DO YOURSELF) And against top players non the less!!!, and others at this last years EVO(going by today being new years eve) use with the characters they play as, and you just keep ignoring the fact that you said this and even tried to say i contradicted myself and CORRECTED YOUR mistake/ignorance to not notice it.. you did say those things Hajime, and with that said making a contradiction of yourself on your own with your own words.


EDIT: oh and about the Yoshi vs Yoshi proving anything stuff..i want to see who will get BETTER results with however we both play..i am very competitive player so this is how that came across with the Yoshi vs Yoshi thing...

and from what I'm seeing from the last few posts..i seem to be the ONLY one contributing to the thread' ENTIRETY as of the past few posts between getting questioned and others not knowing how to open their ears..whatever..Hajime..you can keep throwing this move in the trash all you want..but don't do it in your own character SA thread, and when there ARE players who care to use it in their game...please dont knock it, just keep clear of it, is there really any reason to keep knocking a move you don't like or don't even use!!??..c'mon.. realistically, in truth..more than 50% of your responses are just hate cause you don't know how to use it ..and for certain do not like it..

@Furzy..you can kiss Hajime's ass all ya want, lol. i could care less at this point with USELESS bickering on his behalf..somebody created this thread, its here it exists and has use..and has had more than 1 response from others on its goodness or for the thread name sake "USE OF A+K"..and for someone that doesn't like things getting cluttered or "not on topic" things.. HE shouldn't even be saying what he is saying and knocking a move he hates and doesn't use keep saying what he says ALL OF THE TIME IN A THREAD ABOUT A MOVE HE DOESN'T EVEN USE!!..but others have found ways of using it and MAKING GOOD USE of its application of the game(which as well all know isn't the greatest on recovery..but IS the fastest move IN THE GAME!!) .. and is making him that much more contradictive in his belief's/words etc.. and just plain ol' ass backwards with his words...sorry I was trying to help out the cause of the making/reason of this thread..damn i don't even SA mod here and I'm reaching out more than i need to for the sake of the thread title and getting shit on by the characters SA Mod??.....pshhhh..I'm done here...
 
ugh. Wall of text. This is going nowhere. Never said I hated this move. I just stated that there are better things to use than A+K.

I'll try to be succinct with why A+K is not as good as other moves.

Quiz

You know your opponent is going to attack on getting up, what do you do?

A. A+K: Get 12 dmg, get a KND. Your opponent can tech from the KND with few repercussions.
B. CH 3B: Free launch, do the full 3B, 44bB, a:B+K, 66B_1B combo and get ~40-50 dmg. Just do 3B, 44bB, a:B+K and then run in with your frame advantage. Potential RO if positioned properly.

Which is better?


Kilik is fighting you at mid-close range, how do you deal with him?

A. Wait for Kilk to use 4A or some other move and then A+K to stop him. Do 12 dmg, get a KND.
B. 9B+KK when you think a move is coming, beating out 80% of Kilik's mid-range moveset. Get 40 dmg on non-CH. Get inside and apply pressure.
C. Step, assuming he's going to try and poke with something linear. Use 33B B+K to get inside and possibly punish. Get ~57 dmg, and a potential KND.

Which is better?


Seong-Mina does 8B+K, what do you do?

A. Go for the A+K and then juggle her. Risk taking a hit if your timing is off.
B. Block and punish. She's at -13 after 8B+K, -15 after 8B+KB, -18 after 8B+KBB.


You can GI or A+K, what do you do?

A. A+K. Either get a aGI and get +5 frames. Get a JI and get +12 frames. Get a hit and get 12 dmg and a KND.
B. GI. Get a free 3B and a combo if the opponent decides not to GI back. Play post-GI games if your opponent likes to GI often.

What's better?
 
OMG..i totally said that i was done here...

you asked for anything..ANYTHING..and i gave a quick EXAMPLE(S) of something that can be seen by the eye, and could use as a practice tool...

and do you not know that A+K ALSO acts as an body attack!!?..not just hitting as a GI like i keep saying but you keep ignoring!!!? ..apparently not..your too one track minded/ignorant and can't see where it can be used so whatever at this point... HAJIME IS RIGHT AND THE MOVE THAT WAS GIVEN TO HIM IS WRONG!!!! this is all I am hearing from EVERY single response...

I AM NOT COMPARING..like YOU keep doing, which is why you cant see its usefulness/and where it can be applied..oh and for the record ...when you say.."THE MOVE IS TRASH"..this is YOUR OPINION NOT FACT, so from what i am getting in return from this is that you do IN FACT, hate the move hence you saying "THE MOVE IS TRASH"..cause if that's not the case than this part i said stands.."HAJIME IS RIGHT AND THE MOVE THAT WAS GIVEN TO HIM IS WRONG!!!!"..your only looking at it "on paper" wise(which is quite sad for someone who uses him exclusively in SC4)...try learning how other characters work in this game and THEN apply A+K AGAINST THEM.. it does help to "keep an open mind" here with character like Yoshi, and moves like A+K...but to each his/her own....peace.
 
JustKill said:
@Furzy..you can kiss Hajime's ass all ya want, lol. blablabla
Click to expand...
looool why so much hate and sarcasm?? I read the rest of the post anyway (what a nice guy i am ;p) You keep talking about Hajime on the whole post, why not talk to him directly instead of putting a "@Furzy"? But don't get me wrong, I don't care that much about Hajime, I just like to watch his matches and he has helped me with advice, so yeah, I'm grateful. Something wrong with that? Or are you just using a "victim stance" for whatever reason?

As for the A+K move, can I also have my opinion on this move and tell it? Or should I just shut up because the thread is called "Use for A+K"?

Just chill out guys, please...
 
Furzy..

Dun worry no hate here on my part..i was just following post after post with something in return with either correcting something i saw was said to me/corrected some words.. and had to put in the open..

the ass kissing part was me feeling a bit "against the wall" sort of speaking and thought you were taking his side on that..my apologies good sir... as in good faith as soon as i get my new slim(which i must wait now till Saturday due to New Year's day)..with some help in capping, i will put up some "observational" match vids, but i will be playing on a serious note too, so maybe against different characters giving the ideas i am trying to get out there, and see how at least A+K(non auto GI version) can be used...granted that i can get the vids recorded and put on YouTube or wherever... i dunno, I'll see what i can do:)
 
Justkill: Hey, man. You didn't have to respond. Since you did, maybe calm down a bit. I'm just making my point. Yes, A+K can be applied in a variety of ways. So can 11B. It doesn't mean I'll use 11B seriously just because I can.

Anyways, my earlier post asked someone to convince me why I should use A+K and why I should think it's useful. You decided to step up and gave me a variety of examples why it's such a great move. I objectively (for the most part) posted what I believe makes it useless in comparison to other moves.

Like all characters, you have to make use of the most efficient moves a character has. I have tested every move Yoshi has, tried to apply every move he has to see how it works in matches, found practically every useful and useless tech trap (there's a ton of useless ones), tested potential combos, and stuck to what gave me the most bang for my buck. Being a dedicated Yoshi player doesn't mean you have to integrate every move in your game for the sake of it. You use what works and toss the rest. All players have to make these decisions when they pick up a character.

Suffice to say, I will never ever use 11B, A+K, anything from INT except a stance shift (for kicks), 66{B} =>> INT, and a variety of other moves in Yoshi's arsenal in serious play. Maybe if I'm screwing around, but never in serious play; and I'm usually playing to win.

I am still convinced it's useless compared to other moves, and not because I "hate" the move or have deemed it "useless" just because I think it is. If you want to integrate it into your game, go for it. Yoshi is a diverse character. Maybe someone will find something amazing with it and I'll come to appreciate what A+K can do. Until then, imo, it's a sub-standard move buried in Yoshi's massive movelist. Anyways, Happy New Year! I guess I see why we had some kind of flame war back in the SC2 days, but I still don't remember what it was about. =/

Furzy: I don't care that much about you, either! Hehe, seriously, though. Happy New Year, bro. I'm happy to see a serious Yoshi playing elsewhere. Vids to come on maybe Sunday Pacific Time.

Hopefully this "wonderful" discussion on A+K has been useful to you and other users. If not, my apologies, all. >_<
 
Wow this last segment is riveting... "The Young and the Yoshi"...
No really, if I want to use A+K then I will, and if you don't than you don't have to, but riddle me this?
Will throwing out a well placed A+K turn the tide of battle in the opponent's favor??? I mean is it safe to throw one out there in it's proper setting??? It's not gonna kill me is it??? Yes, there are better options (like Hajime pointed out), but this thread is meant to say "A+K we can still use you!!!" and for that I thank everybody contributing to this thread in a positive manner...
 
ZOMBIEBEAR666 said:
but this thread is meant to say "A+K we can still use you!!!" and for that I thank everybody contributing to this thread in a positive manner...
Click to expand...

why not make a thread for every move in every characters movelist then? ;p
of course you can use A+K, and every move that´s in the game, but this forum is mostly for tournament/competitive play.
is there really any situation where A+K would be the best possible option? i think not.
 
"why not make a thread for every move in every characters movelist then?"
Not a bad idea, not sure if this has already been done for Yoshi, but I think 1 good thread for each character can cover everything...
Now who feels like doin it???
 
Assign your RT or an RB to A+K and use it specifically as a last ditch "Easy out" if you're being pressured, and you see a kick, string, or any horizontal coming (but you're not sure about timing for reg JI/GIs.) Think of it only as a panic button, and you may be able to find it useful.. but for the rest of it, keep your current game-a-going.
 
Hey, does anyone know for sure (Has anyone done any extensive testing) to find out if A+K interrupts certain characters' moves that normally aren't interruptible by GI? (EG: Setsuka's A+B, or Vader's Force Parry) as in.. can A+K be buffered?
 
At point blank A+K has invisible STUN. But A+K's props. are:

:imp: (all :A:&:h:-:K:attacks) [5-12] (gives +5 on successful GI and a +12 invisible STN on a successful JI)

Use the Wiki.. it answers lots of questions.
 
Yes, but what I'm asking is if it can be buffered into your opponent's attack strings to interrupt them with GI.. GI without timing, like Setsuka or Vader. If you're not familiar, or if you are.. say I'm sets and you're mina... you do any of these moves

JUST :A::A:{:B:}
JUST {:6::A::+::B:} (3rd hit)
JUST {:4::A::+::B:} (4th hit)
JUST {:4::A::+::B::4::A::+::B:} (8th hit)

and if I hit Sets's A+B parry in those attacks it will automatically be a guaranteed JI from the parry.
Vader has similar properties with his Force Parry.. getting guaranteed JIs while interrupt their strings.

I'm wondering if anyone else has tested Yoshi's A+K and if not, I volunteer myself to go test every string every character has against the A+K. You can help if needed, but I'm hoping someone else has went to check this out.
 
Its been mentioned, some in the punishment thread, some in Stance Evasion. But I don't think there's a thread committed to it.. to late in the game I suppose(?). Taki's WS AAA, the last A can be impacted w/ A+K, that and few others come to mind, A+K is too situational to throw out often.
 
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