Viola Combo & Tech Trap Discussion

Ryder said:
NH 33(B) launches the opponent forward, so it's impossible to combo into AAB.
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But that's not true. I can't see the difference in the launch reaction of 33(B) on NH vs CH. But either way, you can definitely combo into AAB on 33(B) NH. It does seem to be slightly more difficult than CH, but it's definitely doable.

EDIT: I just saw what Dest said...
Destinizish said:
And what Ryder said is a bit false. The damage reduction lies in the 44A BE, not the 33B (You can test this with the same method but using the 6B+K on 2nd orb hit into 6B 3B version of the combo). It's probably like this because the move is meant to catch step, not hit on NH. They probably decided damage for the followup could get too high, so they put some damage reduction for CH states. And tbh, they were right. ATM she already gets about 120 just for killing your step.
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Still doesn't make sense that it does less on CH than NH. Because now if you legitimately interrupt an opponent's attack, you now get less damage because of some arbitrary decision that "Viola does too much damage".
 
Cla said:
But that's not true. I can't see the difference in the launch reaction of 33(B) on NH vs CH. But either way, you can definitely combo into AAB on 33(B) NH. It does seem to be slightly more difficult than CH, but it's definitely doable.

EDIT: I just saw what Dest said...
Still doesn't make sense that it does less on CH than NH. Because now if you legitimately interrupt an opponent's attack, you now get less damage because of some arbitrary decision that "Viola does too much damage".
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Killing step with any move puts them in the CH state. Yes, it does make sense. It's really nothing to worry about either. A loss of 5 damage on a bnb never really hurt anyone, and if you extend the combo you're not really getting any less. A 125 damage step killer isn't going to be broken because the devs made it 119.

And you should never be interrupting an attack or AIMING to interrupt an attack with 44A BE. If you are, they did something at an AWFUL time. Like really, what? In fact, I kind of like the fact that the NH version does more damage. I mean, if you hit somebody with that on NH, they fucked up even worse than if you CHed them.

I just got 165 damage from wall with SET 6B+K 6B 3B W! 44A (BE) BB 2B+K (BE) AAB 2A+B 2B+K (BE) AAB 66B W! 66A+BB

Of course this can be ended early for really good oki or just for less flash. :P
 
Destinizish said:
-snip-
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I just tested 44A BE (orb hits twice) 6B+K 6B (orb hits) 3B AAB 2A+B 1A+B
NH was 95 dmg and CH was 92 dmg.

And tested 22_88B BE 1B (orb hits) 3B AAB 2A+B 1A+B
NH was 83dmg and CH was 82dmg.

Aside from the damage difference though, the latter combo was significantly harder to land on Astaroth on CH than it was on NH. The trouble with CH was that when juggling AAB after the 3B the second A tended to whiff, which is not the case with NH. What bugs me is not the couple points of damage but the unreliability in landing them.

Also landing these off a JG could happen, I suppose. Umm, so how does she get 120 for killing step?
 
Xenozip9 said:
Also landing these off a JG could happen, I suppose. Umm, so how does she get 120 for killing step?
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44A BE is too slow to land off a JG in 90% of cases, unless you JGed an already incredibly unsafe move.

120 damage for

44A BE QS 6B+K 6B 3B AAB 2A+B 2B+K BE AAB 66B 66A+BB.
 
Not sure if it has been posted, but from my understanding: SET 3B, AAB, 2A+B, 2B+K (BE), dash, AAB 66K [(BE)], seems to be quite potent. It can't be air-controlled, nor can the 66K (BE) ender be ukemi'd. If the opponent freezes up you can relaunch them. If the opponent has a tendency to attack on wake up, just don't hold for so long. Not sure if 1 meter is worth it, but you can get some decent mind-game with it, I suppose.

Haven't tested on a real opponent.
 
Relius said:
Not sure if it has been posted, but from my understanding: SET 3B, AAB, 2A+B, 2B+K (BE), dash, AAB 66K [(BE)], seems to be quite potent. It can't be air-controlled, nor can the 66K (BE) ender be ukemi'd. If the opponent freezes up you can relaunch them. If the opponent has a tendency to attack on wake up, just don't hold for so long. Not sure if 1 meter is worth it, but you can get some decent mind-game with it, I suppose.

Haven't tested on a real opponent.
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I tryed this and found they have plenty of time after the 66K BE to ukemi, even regular roll, and slap your face. Which is a shame because I really wanted this to be a good reset set up.
 
I tested it on EM in Practice Mode, and he never Ukemi'd it, maybe it's just something to do with stupid AI, but yeah, regular roll works, as I found out yesterday. :(
 
Didn't see this in this thread last time I checked, but there are way too many posts here to comb through it all. Still, don't think anyone is doing this yet:

VS A+G, 6K, W!, BT 2B+K BE, BT B+K

Stylin'.
 
b4k4 said:
Didn't see this in this thread last time I checked, but there are way too many posts here to comb through it all. Still, don't think anyone is doing this yet:

VS A+G, 6K, W!, BT 2B+K BE, BT B+K

Stylin'.
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Nobody's been messing with wall combos much. And I'd tried something like this - but I found the BT B+K can whiff and do very odd things. So instead I just started doing 8A+B W! 6B+K oki setups.

The most stylin' though, is Orb 44A+B W! 66A+BB
 
Destinizish said:
Nobody's been messing with wall combos much.
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Not true. Copy/paste from the last page :)

SET CH WS B, W!, 3B, HW!, 22B(BE), 1B, 3B, AAB, 66B, 66A+BB = 107 dmg
Note: If Viola is on the left, it must be exactly 22B, on the right it's 88B.

ORB CH WS B, W!, 3B, HW!, CE, BB, A+G_B+G, 3B, AAB, 66B, 66A+BB = 108 dmg.

(Wall to Viola's left) SET A+G, 6K, W!, 2B+K(BE), BT B+K = 84 dmg. (As you see, beaten ^^)
 
Ryder said:
Not true. Copy/paste from the last page :)

SET CH WS B, W!, 3B, HW!, 22B(BE), 1B, 3B, AAB, 66B, 66A+BB = 107 dmg
Note: If Viola is on the left, it must be exactly 22B, on the right it's 88B.

ORB CH WS B, W!, 3B, HW!, CE, BB, A+G_B+G, 3B, AAB, 66B, 66A+BB = 108 dmg.

(Wall to Viola's left) SET A+G, 6K, W!, 2B+K(BE), BT B+K = 84 dmg. (As you see, beaten ^^)
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On wall hit, 44A BE is generally best followup :P
 
I just found out yesterday that her back throw chains with 44A.B BE. It was pretty cool. lol

If it's character-specific for whatever reason, I was practicing against Pyrrha.
 
Ryder said:
Trust me, tested 44A BE, and those are best unless you want to spend 2 full bars ;)
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Not quite -

CH WS B 44A BE 6B+K (on 2nd orb) 6B 3B AAB 2A+B 2B+K BE AAB 66B 66A+BB gave me about 130.

CH WS B 44A BE 6B+K (2nd orb hit) 6B 3B AAB 66B 66A+BB gives 156

CH WS B 44A BE 6B+K (2nd orb hit) 6B 3B HW! 22B BE 1B 3B AAB 2A+B 2B+K BE AAB 66B 66A+BB gave me 170.

Granted, if you only want to use ONE BE, 3B is your best followup for the HW hit into 22B BE. However, for one extra BE you get an extra 50 damage, and for 2 extra you get 70. Pretty good trade IMO.


Ryder said:
IIRC, 44A(BE) simply misses close to the wall.
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Haven't had this happen on the CH WS B W! wallsplat yet.
 
Ryder said:
Huh I'm dazzled. Stage dependency? I'll test again these soon.
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I did some testing to see how it could whiff - it's not stage dependancy, it's angle dependant. If you CH WSB them from the side into W!, 44A BE can whiff. From back turned, it still seems to work, though.

Generally, you'd be hitting this on CH when they're facing you, though, so I think it turned out ok. =)
 
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