VS Strats/ Match-Up Discussions

MystSilver said:
I'm studying punishment for Raphael, including ducking/stepping strings, AGIing strings, etc. I'm doing it for the punishment thread but I figure that info will be helpful here as well.

Unfortunately the Raph I'm studying for doesn't actually live here, so I can't say I have, overall, a lot of Raph experience. So if someone else wants to take that data and learn the matchup, feel free.
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Thanks for doing the legwork, Myst! That data will help my game vs. Raph by a LOT. Now that I know what to punish/step/duck, I won't feel like a helpless victim of his facepoking.
 
MystSilver said:
PO transition makes it -3 according to the frame data on the Natsu boards.
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That might be, but remember Natsu can't guard immediately out of PO. She has to attack or Hover which adds frames. Lexy 6KK should interrupt everything if you do it as soon as you block bomb. Only thing it loses to is the cancel as i mentioned.
 
I have a question. How do I defeat Patroklos(Sword and Shield) with Leixia? He's really irritating.>_>
 
VS. Raphael - I've noticed a few things about him that make him a cakewalk. For a few of his moves, you can easily step to his left before the final hit so you can punish him real easy (ex. BBB). Also, a lot (!) of his moves can be countered with auto-GI 4A+B. Like, a lot of his moves can. A lot.

Finally, with his little shadow step (where he bends backward at a real awkward angle and then attacks), I've found a way to counter him no matter what he does. Take a real small step backwards and then press 4A+B with regard to time. This counters his A and his B with the auto-GI, and his K can't hit you (because you stepped backwards) but your 4A+B still hits him.
 
CassSophFan said:
I have a question. How do I defeat Patroklos(Sword and Shield) with Leixia? He's really irritating.>_>
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What I do (and I have no idea how effective this will be vs. a real player) is quick step like mad and punish like a bitch. He seems to use lots of vertical attacks so it works well for me.
 
Nate said:
What I do (and I have no idea how effective this will be vs. a real player) is quick step like mad and punish like a bitch. He seems to use lots of vertical attacks so it works well for me.
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OK. Thanks, Nate. Just needed to find a way to defeat that whiny mama's boy.:D
 
Nate said:
VS. Raphael - I've noticed a few things about him that make him a cakewalk. For a few of his moves, you can easily step to his left before the final hit so you can punish him real easy (ex. BBB). Also, a lot (!) of his moves can be countered with auto-GI 4A+B. Like, a lot of his moves can. A lot.

Finally, with his little shadow step (where he bends backward at a real awkward angle and then attacks), I've found a way to counter him no matter what he does. Take a real small step backwards and then press 4A+B with regard to time. This counters his A and his B with the auto-GI, and his K can't hit you (because you stepped backwards) but your 4A+B still hits him.
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I'll get to practicing those 4A+B's one of these days soon. Thanks for the tips.

I'll try that counter to his shadow as well - sounds quite useful.


I've got a lot of experience versus Siegfried, so if anyone needs help with him, I can probably give some decent advice on that matchup.
 
So I lost to multiple Maxi players this past tourney so I'm gonna start compiling anti Maxi strats. If you have any, feel free to chime in. I'll probably start on Tira next...

22A/88A: Mid of Maxi's that tracks step real well and while it's punishable on block, he can interrupt anything you do with LI A (Further testing needed) but if you can step it with 22 B+K, you can GI that since it's horizontal and launch them with B. If he follows up with LI K, it trades with most attacks except AA but again, he can just stop you with LI A.

6A+B: Great punisher and safe. He can also use this as a BE and follow up with LI. This also does a lot of guard damage. You can maybe interrupt it with 1B+K...or this might trade with it.

6A: This high tracks and while it is punishable with AA, if it hits on CH, the RO AK followup is guaranteed. This appears to be one of his best options to transition into RO so you better watch for it. You can interrupt him after 6A with BB but he can also interrupt you with RO B soooo either block and punish or...maybe you could GI it with 22 or 88B+K but that might be a bit slow.

1A+B (Or 3A+B): Low high mixup. Block the low and then launch him with WR 3B.
 
I'm personally having a lot of issues with Nightmare. Everyone tells me that his stuff is punishable, which may be true in terms of frames, but everything he does ends up pushing me away, like his double punch for example, so I can't punish. I have to get in in order to do anything, but I end up eating an attack whenever I try which leads to a big chunk of my health being gone. Not to mention half of his lows look just like half of his mids, with one especially potent 50/50 OTG. Oh yeah, and he's stupid fast for a guy swinging around a soul-eating greatsword with one hand. I could have sworn I saw him do a 10 frame WR horizontal one day, though I will acknowledge that the psychology could be getting to me a little too much. What do I do against Nightmare?
 
Beware of his GS A because it Auto GI's verticals and tech crouches. 2A is a safe bet. Beware of his 1A, it can be a slow low at times but its speed can surprise you. If he has the meter for his Brave Edge, just throw him or walk behind him and punish. 6K is his best interrupter or can be used to punish. It's high so it can be ducked but he will use this to get you out of his face so he can keep you out. Don't let him get space or he'll just have all day to make your life miserable. There's more obviously but these are just a few things I remember.
 
Should have left each character a seperate thread. This thread is now all over the place. Thanks for also deleting my original post :(
 
The way Dustloop handles it is by creating a matchup subforum in each character forum, and then one thread for each character. Could we possibly do that here?
 
Precisely as I suggested. Maybe I wasn't really very clear with what I was saying. For example, since I'm having trouble with Nightmare, I would go to the Leixia forum, then the Matchups subforum in the Leixia forum, then to the vs. Nightmare thread. Leixia > Matchups > vs. Nightmare.
 
Considering the X matchup thread was a bit haphazard (I would know since I was the X mod and did a lot of work there), separate threads should work just fine. If there are no objections from the mods here, I'm gonna start on the Maxi guide.
 
If they're going to hold G, she can work their guard gauge extremely well. I'm starting to love 3B+K K as a combo finisher because it pretty much forces them to block the K, which breaks in 8.
 
Familiarize yourself with Nightmare's stances, we'll start with GS first (236 motion)

GS A: This is a high swipe move that auto GI's verticals and since it's a tech crouch, can go under highs. Oh and it tracks! It isn't safe and you can punish it with AA or BB. Just don't try using a vertical while he moves forward or you could eat that Auto GI.

GS B: His slow but painful launcher. Safe and if he's playing at the range he wants (Outside of your range that's for sure!), then he can hit you with something else when you blindly try to attack. He can also follow up with another GS and followup attack so if you try something like a vertical, he could always GS A you for kicks. Sidestep this or JG it (I'll see what I can get after JGing it).

GS K: A quick boot. Unsafe and can be punished with 3B. You can't be rung out with it if you lie on the ground.

NSS (B+K): He steps back and holds his sword with his other hand.

NSS A: Slow mid swipe. Taking into account he takes a step back when entering NSS and the pushback this gives on block, you aren't punishing this. If the Nightmare player holds A after doing this and stays in NSS, you can punish them but if they don't...they can and will punish you.

NSS B: His nice little low out of this. It's a nice long distance poke. Kind of slow so it can be jumped. Punishable on block with 2A. I'm sure you can tag him with something else to avoid this but I'll point that out later. This can also be stepped.

NSS B~A: His super quick high swipe. This will track so don't step it please! Now this is punishable on block but a smart Nightmare player will have the Just frame version down pat and that is NOT punishable. If he's staying at his prime spot, you aren't punishing the unsafe version either!

NSS K: A quick boot to the face. Unsafe on block and punishable with AA or BB. This can ring you out near the edge so watch out!

NSS A+B: A quick swipe upwards. Tracks to some degree and puts you into a down state right in front of him where he can follow up with a guaranteed 2 A+B. Punishable on block with AA or BB BUT again if he's playing at his range, he'll be out of range for you to punish anyways.

NSS GS: He can enter GS out of NSS. Just be aware of that. More on the Azure knight later!

EDIT: Oh yes! Now he can obviously enter these two stances from various moves but here are a couple you should be wary of...

3B~NSS: If he holds the B when doing this, he will enter NSS. You need to watch out for this because he could interrupt your attack with NSS K or A+B and then 2 A+B you for fun and giggles. So just be aware of this move and its possible transition.

1A~GS: We all know this low. It can be charged up into a GB but he can also enter GS after it. So even if you block it, you still have to prepare for what he'll do next. Like that pesky GS A for instance.

A~NSS
6B(Hold)~NSS
4BB(Hold the last one)~NSS
WR B (Hold)~NSS
66/33/99 AA~GS
22/88 A~A~GS
33/99 B~GS
44/11/77 B~NSS
66/33/99 K~GS

One thing you should be wary of his that when he goes into GS, he is in a crouching state so if he delays his attack just a tad, he can do WR moves. So that brings up more attacks you must be aware of. I will go into that later...
 
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