Weapon / Movesets in Future Games

WuHT

Premium Moderator
This is a discussion thread for cool weapons you'd like to see in the future Soul Calibur releases (or even DLC since SC6 is still supported). We can share thoughts on weapons we find interesting and debate if we disagree

Now the key thing is to highlight the weapon and the moveset, whereas I'd like to steer away from making the focus on skin colour / sexuality (stuff you can do in CAS or headcannon).

I think we all recognize that there is a historic weapons come from all across the globe, and a weapon-based fighting game will benefit from weapon diversity (as long it fits the rules of the in-game universe).

Some weapons can develop independently from multiple regions starting with a common design (ie club or handaxe). I’ve just broken down the more iconic weapons that have yet to be in SC, and are not necessarily existing alt weapon skin, together with a score with the following metrics:

Is this a weapon that will have a cool moveset that would fit in the SC universe ?
Generally weapons that are designed only for formation fighting, horseback combat, or solely ranged projectiles would be exceedingly boring in the 1v1 fighting on foot. On the flip side, weapons with multi-functions would score higher here. If the weapon can’t do basic AA / BB type attacks then it wouldn’t fit well. If the weapon is about energy generation of magical powers, then it would fit poorly even though it would be creative.

How unique will this weapon/moveset be ? Are there similar weapon analogues?
This is solely moveset based, and if the weapon could function strictly as an alt weapon-skin of an existing moveset, then that would lower its uniqueness. SC has steered itself from a clone problem and hopefully will continue to do so. One thing to note is that its easier for the Devs to start with a historical weapon and push fantasy/anime elements to make it exciting, rather than starting with something goofy like an oversized anime shuriken.

How much “flavor” will this weapon/moveset bring ? Will it be showcasing more diversity in terms of combat style across the globe? Is the weapon visually intriguing ?
This is trickier to define because the origin of a weapon doesn’t necessary match the character’s origin. We have a blind Italian bondage gimp fighting with a pair of Indian Katars for example, and he’s one of the most endearing characters. On the flip side, you have a lot of Japanese characters fighting with single edged swords (4 so far, plus one likely on the way) despite them all having very unique animations and fighting styles.

Here's the list:

Mesoamerica / North America
• Macuahuitl – 4.0
• Tomahawk (pair) – 3.0

Scandinavia
• 2 handed Warhammer – 4.5
• Battle Axe - 1.5

Western Europe
• 1 handed Flail – 5.0
• Poleaxe – 3.5
• Bastard Sword – 5.0

Africa
• Shotel / Mambele sickle sword – 3.5
• Ikakalaka sword – 2.0

Central Asia / Middle East
• Scimitar family (Kilij / Shamshir / Pulwar) – 4.0

South Asia
• Gada Mace – 2.5
• Kora sword – 2.0
• Kukri knife – 1.0

East Asia
• 3 Section Staff – 5.0
• Hook Swords (pair) – 5.0
• Deerhorn Blades (pair) – 1.5
• Monk Spade – 3.5
• Ji – 3.5
• Tiger Fork – 2.0
• Guan Dao – 2.0
• Butterfly Swords (pair) – 4.0

Japan
• Sai (pair) – 4.0
• Iron Fan – 4.0
• Kusarigama – 2.0
• Kama (paired with chain) – 4.5
• Nagamaki – 1.5
• Kanobo / Tetsubo – 1.0

Japan / China / Central Europe and Scandinavia were easier because of games like For Honor, Shadowfight, while the other weapons I had to dig around a bit. Others games like Samurai Shodown and even Last Bronx helped me a bit to visualize how the weapon could be used in a fighting game. Even Mordhau was worth a look

Certain weapons already have an anime'd version in SC, such as the viking's 2 handed axe (Astaroth's giant executioner axe) and indian chakram (tira's hulahoop ring blade) so I didn't include them even though they are very recognizable.

I'll go into more detail in the next few posts.
 
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WuHT

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Macuahuitl (4)
  • One handed sword/club with sharp obsidian blades all along both sides
  • Usually paired with a shield (as if we didn’t have enough for those)
  • Very unique weapon (no metallurgy involved) and has a nice flat surface to really customize with unique carvings
  • The non-symmetry makes it visually look like a brutal and messy, perfect for a merciless Aztec themed warrior
  • Point of balance towards the tip would suggest this is a weapon that relies on savage power rather than swordplay
macuahuitl.jpg


War Axes / Tomahawks (3)
  • One-handed axes is a universal tool (evolved into a weapon) that isn’t exclusive to one region
  • Dual wielding makes it extra cool
  • Can be held with a choke grip (hands just under the axe’s beard) for more control or held normally to maximize leverage and power.
  • Norse themed axes would be decorated with Viking style interlace patterns, but I think Native American theme with colorful feathers and leaves decorating would also be cool be pretty cool
tomahawks.jpg
axe.jpg


Double Blade Battle Axe (1.5)
  • Associate this with dwarven warriors, but I shudder everytime i picture yoda in SC4.
  • Problem is its outclassed by Astaroth’s giant executioner axe (just like how an authentic zweihander would look unimpressive next to Siegfried’s Requiem)
  • Double blades at least is cooler than single blade, but less cool than a pair of axes
battleaxe.jpg

Warhammer (4.5)
  • 2 handed warhammer specializes in absurd blunt-force smashing power which is sorely missing
  • Already exists in game (SC4), though it looks super fantastical with an oversized head rather than a practical sized warhammer
  • 2 handed warhammers can look to be customized to be from nearly any region, but I think it’ll fit the Nordic/Scandinavian the best
  • I like it slightly better than his 2 handed mace because the warhammer seems designed with a pair of crushing surfaces, and would suggest the moveset to be more methodical and directed when applying its crushing blows compared to a 2 handed mace.
  • Despite the attack animations being very similar to a 2 handed axe, it’s a poor weapon re-skin because the victim is sent reeling when smacked by a hammer rather than being hewn by an axe.
  • In the SC6 universe a warhammer would be an ideal weapon that would have multiple break attacks to punch through RE. Safe on guard due to block stun, but very unsafe on whiff.
warhammer.jpg


Flail (5)
  • Short/mid ranged flail has no comparables in current SC.
  • Could be paired with a heater shield for defense/quick attacks
  • Point of balance away from wielder makes this a momentum weapon where the wielder has to continue with the inertia of the weapon rather than try to stop it.
  • In SC I see the flail itself being slow at neutral (so pair it with a shield) but would have strong block stun once the weapon is already swinging.
  • Can have the classic spiked ball head, or a flanged mace head, or even a farmer’s studded thresher (ie very customizable), lots of depictions in other games
  • This weapon would outclass one-handed maces/clubs in terms of coolness.
flail.jpg
flail2.jpg

flail3.jpg


Poleaxe / Halberd (3.5)
  • Very versatile polearm that allows for thrust / chop / smash / hook / cut animations.
  • Its basically a generalist pole arm, able to do pretty much anything
  • Problem is it won’t stand out from Seong Mina’s animations (except the potential to hook and draw in)
  • *side note I don’t think Seong Mina is wielding a Naginata nor a Zanbatou. It looks like a Pudao or the Korean analogue (either Woldo or Hyeopdo its not obvious)
  • Hilde has a monopoly on cool polearm thrust animations too.
  • The weapons are almost interchangeable, just that the longer halberd would be good for formation fighting and worse in the SC universe.
  • While Seong Mina has a halberd weapon alt,its the shorter Poleaxe would make more sense for her and the longer Halberd would fit Hilde more.
poleaxe.jpg
poleaxe2.jpg


Bastard sword (5.0)
  • Considering Geralt won’t be coming back in SC7, a double-edged straight sword that can be a versatile weapon that can be wielded by both hands or just single handed
  • Would be a good weapon for a 2nd beginner-character moveset that has solid fundamentals (other than Mitsurugi)
  • Geralt’s animations are mostly top notch with balanced thrust and cut potential
bastard.jpg

Shotel / Mambele (3.5)
  • One handed lightweight sickle sword hybrid, double edged and held with the point facing the opponent, but can be held like a traditional sabre.
  • The curve was to help reach around shields and thrust, or to pull and unbalance the victim
  • The fighting style looks to use a lot of circular flowing hooking motions (so visually it’ll look good in motion) while trying to pry and twist the opponent from multiple angles
  • Could be pair with another weapon or a shield
  • The Khopesh would be a good alt weapon skin, but it fell out of use by the time of SC
shotel.jpg


Ikakalaka (2.0)
  • One handed sword with a point of balance far from hilt,
  • The silhouette looks a fantasy sword (like a one-handed gannondorf sword) with decent heft at the “tip”
  • Would be a good weapon alt skin for a weapon like the Macuahuitl
Ikakalaka.jpg


Scimitar (4.0)
  • Since a dao user is unconfirmed at this time, this weapon gets an extra point
  • Generally a one handed single edged slender sword with a pronounced curve that excels at slashing
  • Lots of variants of this weapon across central asia/middle east with varying blade thickness tapering and hilt guards
  • I’ve seen a buckler or the scabbard held in the free hand
  • Compared to the Oxtail Dao swords, these look to be slightly more specialized with draw slices rather than chopping power. Otherwise the curved sword is a popular design and there is overlapping designs across all regions.
scimitars.jpg
 
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WuHT

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(..cont'd)
Mace (2.5)
  • One handed maces are basically metal clubs
  • Multiple origins across the globe due to its simplicity
  • Visually less impressive than a flail imo, even though a mace has more raw striking force.
  • Gada mace / Morningstar mace / chinese chui (paired) could be different skin variants
  • Very similar to one handed warhammer, which could also be a further weapon skin.
gada.jpg
morningstar.jpg

Chui.jpg


Kora Sword (2.0)
  • Forward curving one handed sword with tremendous chopping power
  • I suppose this weapon can also hook and pull the opponent
  • Its definitely got a memorably unique silhouette, but I think its limited in the attack animations it could offer
Kora.jpg

Kukri Knife (1.0)
  • Too small to be main weapon
  • Still used as modern combat knives / similar to machete
  • Would be ok as a side weapon for a moveset that had another main weapon
  • If it gets oversized, then it becomes less of a knife which defeats the purpose
Kukri.jpg

3-Section Staff (5.0)
  • Can be gripped in multiple methods, ranging from i) using them as a pair of fighting sticks ii) swinging one free end as a flail iii) swinging 2 free sections as a whip iv) holding the middle section for twirling v) holding all sections together as one thick baton
  • A lot of the forms involve downward vertical spins to use the ground to break the momentum to actually control the weapon.
  • While difficult to control, it’s been depicted in pop culture more often than not that the wielder is a skilled martial artist rather than some magical property of the weapon (ie more Maxi and less Ivy)
3 section staff.jpg


Hook Swords (5.0)
  • These swords have so much going on: the tip has hooks to grab, crescent hand guards for punching/parrying, the hilt is sharpened to a dagger point, and the blade of the sword itself is for hacking. It almost looks like a fantasy weapon
  • Poor at thrusting, but seems to do almost everything else
  • Looks so much more cool when paired, allows the impractical ability to link up the hook and swing both weapons one handed (would look badass in-game)
  • This weapon overlaps with other sickle-sword types, while the crescent hand guard will also overlap with other smaller fist weapons
hook swords.jpg


shadowfight3.gif

Deerhorn Blades (1.5)
  • Cool silhouette
  • Closest thing to a fist weapon that is also lethal
  • Prongs to not only pierce, but also to trap incoming attacks and disarm
  • However, as shown above, the hook sword’s hand guards function very similarly while offering a bunch of other utility.
  • Even the Katar outranges this weapon
deerhorn.jpg


Monk Spade: (3.5)
  • Polearm with 2 unique blades on both ends
  • Weapon fits the pacifist kung fu monk stereotype, but Kilik is already bound to the rod Kali Yuga
  • Potential for 2 main stances depending on which end is held facing the enemy
  • The crescent end has some defensive trapping potential for special parry GIs
monk spade.jpg


Ji (3.5)
  • Just like the Poleaxe, a ridiculously versatile polearm
  • Again, just like the Poleaxe, this weapon looks to be wielded by elite military/soldiers, rather than your free-spirited warrior like most of the roster in SC6
  • The weapon is tied to LuBu (version with only 1 crescent blade)
ji.jpg


Tiger Fork (2.0)
  • Similar to a trident, but instead of being used to quickly spear fish, it is built to be robust enough to subdue a tiger
  • An intimidating 3 pronged thrusting weapon
  • Limited cutting potential, though it can bludgeon due to its sheer mass
  • Does have defensive weapon trapping potential
  • Shares a similar general design as a trident/pitchfork, but imo is the most impressive of the 3
tiger fork.jpg


Guan Dao (2.0)
  • Famous chinese weapon
  • Visually intimidating, with a very broad blade designed to cleave things into 2
  • However, exists somewhat as a weapon alt for Seong Mina (Hyup Do) so making an entirely new moveset that won’t be a clone is going to be very difficult
  • While like the Tiger fork above, it is a slow/heavy long ranged polearm moveset. However it at least can have sweeping horizontals to contain movement since it isn’t thrust-centric.
Guandao.jpg


Butterfly Swords – Paired (4.0)
  • Pair of forearm-length cleavers
  • Can thrust, chop, and parry with the upturned prongs from the cross guard, so its super versatile on both defense and offense
  • Can be held reverse grip with the blade along the forearm like a tonfa
  • Will likely end up with a short range rush-down moveset
  • I don’t see this conflicting with Cervantes’s moveset
butterfly.jpg


Sai – Paired (4.0)
  • Also a short range weapon, with more of a focus on stabbing and trapping/parrying
  • Think Amy dual wielding (lol) with a focus on stabs and parries
  • Can also be revese-gripped so there is some variety in how the weapon can be used in-game.
  • Similar to the Butterfly Swords (trade chopping power for more parrying/stabbing) so the analogy is similar to Tiger Fork vs Guan Dao
  • Stereotyped into the Ninja/assassin trope
sai.jpg

Iron War Fan (4.0)
  • Variants where only the ribs are sharpened, or the entire fan edge is sharpened for cutting
  • Originally I was worried the fan was more of a gimmicky distraction for strikes/kicks rather than being a weapon itself
  • However, there’s clear slashing potential for this weapon and even collapsing it and striking like a short ranged baton, but overall this weapon seems very low damage.
  • Easily one of the weapons with the most artistic potential and customizable skins
  • A weapon that is both deceptive and elegant
  • Too bad Talim has the monopoly on supernatural wind powers, else the Iron fan would be also good for this.
fan.jpg


Kusarigama (2.0)
  • Kama sickle attached to a chain with a weight on the end
  • Lots of overlap with Ivy with both a long range chain attack and a short range sickle weapon (except the weapon doesn’t transform via supernatural magic)
  • The Kama can’t thrust but excels and hooking in unlike Ivy’s sword
  • Conceptually seems to be inferior to dual Kamas attached via a chain, simply because the Kusarigama’s iron weight doesn’t do anything unless it is spinning.
kusarigama.jpg


Dual Kama attached with chain (4.5)
  • Similar to the above, but instead of an iron weight on one end of the chain, instead it is replaced with a 2nd Kama sickle (yes this is way more impractical). They don’t even need to be symmetrical.
  • Long range chain attacks can be used to not only entangle/ensnare, but also to hook into the enemy and brutally reel them in / or even launch the wielder into the opponent like a slingshot.
  • Up close, the weapon set can transition to a pair of sickle for short range offense
  • Dual Kamas can be pierce and cut when pulling in, which is different from the chopping superiority of paired Tomahawks.
  • Imo the pair of Kamas are less impressive than a pair of Hook Swords, but the long range chain attack would fit a different niche.
  • I see this fitting a ninja / bounty hunter trope
  • Exists as a maxi alt-weapon skin, but he'd lacerate his hands if he went into stance loops
kama2.jpg

Nagamaki (1.5)
  • Sword/polearm hybrid
  • Nodachi sized weapon, but with more shaft and less blade (where the shaft is about the same length as the blade)
  • I just think its got a unique look and if there has to be another Japanese sword, then this should be considered instead of a 4th katana.
  • Its got the potential for long range combat, and up close it’s a slightly more awkward katana.
nagamaki.jpg


Kanabo / Tetsubo (1.0)
  • 2 handed large war club, with iron studs
  • A mix between the 2 handed war hammer / mace and the macuahuitl
  • Often associated with savage oni
  • I think will end up as a alt-weapon skin.
kanobo.jpg
 
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WuHT

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(..con't)

How do we apply this to SC veterans that are not currently available in SC6 ? In the case of clones, if there was a directive that they ought to have a distinguishable moveset then it wouldn't hurt to have a distinct weapon as well while we're at it. Here's a take with a slight detour including discussion of flavor/canon

Rock – 2 handed Warhammer
Rock’s a character canonically from the Britain, but was raised in North America. It would be so much more perfect if he somehow was actually from Scandinavia instead (secretly adopted ? canonical re-boot?), and ended up stranded as a child in North America where Rock would develop and embrace his dual heritage and become a hybrid between the Viking and Apache warriors. He can still channel the animal spirits to jack up his strength. What better weapon than a war hammer?

Aeon – Macuahuitl
A savage lizard-person decked out with Aztec armor/jewelry/featherwork wielding a brutal looking Macuahuitl is money. He may appear to have cold-blooded sluggishness, but if you underestimate him you'll get torn to ribbons by his ferocious inhuman strength and surprising bursts of speed.
sc6aeon.jpg


Li-Long – 3 Section Staff
Li-Long turned out to barely survive his encounter with Cervantes, and realizes his nunchuku style isn’t sufficient so he has to adopt a new weapon and fighting style. Simple and easy, and let the moveset sell the character. He's less flamboyant than Maxi, since he's been humbled and is seeking to prove himself once again. This would be a complete overhaul to his fighting style since he's hit rock bottom canonically it will be a rebirth.

Arthur – Nagamaki
Better than another katana I suppose

***
New generation characters (much more a shot in the dark)

Natsu - Sai (paired)
Natsu's staying as a ninja, so you've got some alternate options including the twin Kamas. The Sais would keep her much closer to her current Taki-inspired moveset (like 98% of her attacks) being a quicker weapon than the Kama sickles. Maybe what separates Taki and Natsu is that Natsu ends up being the more technical fighter with the mixing the offensive and defensive aspects of the Sai, because she doesn’t want to rely on her ninjitsu powers for fear of losing control and releasing the Arahabaki demon. Either that or she return full-Arahabaki form and wields a giant Kanabo completely abandoning Taki’s moveset, which she's only Natsu in name and no longer recognizable.

Leixia - Iron Fan
Her tricky/graceful Jian moveset shares design traits with the deceptiveness/elegance of the Iron Fan moveset.
The Iron Fan has representation in both japan/china and I think she’ll sacrifice some reach for more deceptive feints (ie interrupting her canned strings and going into stance mixups via opening the fan).
Lorewise she can end up as an unwilling yet cheerful courtesan who hides her secretly learned martial art capabilities with the Iron Fan moveset.

Xiba – Monk Spade
This one is tough. He’s a literal wild child, and has a bit of the monkey king mannerisms so the staff would have suit him well. In fact, most of his signature unique attacks rely on the using the staff as a prop. He'll never beat Kilik in popularity, so If he had to have a change in weapon, the monk spade would be the next best thing.
While Xiba is a happy-go-lucky character in SC5, maybe his next chapter for character development would be a comical attempt to suppress his feral instincts and attempt to be a disciplined monk where his trusting nature, naivety and misunderstanding of society gets him into trouble

Zwei – Keep the same (Cross Guard sword + Wolf stand)
His sword was more a super tonfa, and what made him stand out was his wolf summon and his laid back casual stance and mannerisms. He could replace his sword with any other weapon and he'd still feel like Zwei. I Maybe you could actually equip weapons with EIN, like punch daggers, brass knuckles, cestus, deerhorn knives.. etc to emphasis his punching lethality. I'd settle for different wolf skins honestly (not just recolours but actually different meshes and textures)

Viola – Keep the same (finger claws + magical crystal ball)
There's something really delicate about her finger claws, but her orb can smash people like a wrecking ball. The moveset just needed some tighter balancing and it would have had a positive lasting impact. Canonically will they keep Amy on the route where she is destinted to become Viola, and in order to keep the Amy moveset she rescues an orphan herself ? Or will they actually keep Amy as a fencer (somehow she still is stunted) and Viola is some sort of shadow/ husk / supernatural character connected to Amy ?

Patroklos – ??? (haven't figured it out)
Pllease not another double edged one handed straight sword + shield. The Alexandras are ending up like the Mishimas. Fortunately he's had a a ton of unique animations in SC5 compared to Leixia / Natsu / Xiba so I still picture him wielding a sword
The natural suggestion would be a Scimitar moveset since he travels to Istanbul, but he's not shown a lot of loyalty to any moveset since his Alpha form uses Setsuka's moveset!

Pyrrha – ??? (haven't figured it out)
She's so similar to her mother, which is both good and bad. If you want to show familial relationship, the moveset can't be too different from the parent, but we've got to balance it out with having moveset diversity to prevent staleness.
 
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weshookhands

[13] Hero
Excellent extensive list!

Personally, I'd enjoy a War Fan (Tessen), Hookswords and a Kusarigama the most.

Also, maybe a rather unpopular opinion, but I'd really like a rather calm, contained, simple and defensive moveset (maybe with lots of parries and throws/attack throws) with a short stick (like a Jo). Think Jôdo as a reference, perhaps wielded by a short, elderly man. I think SC is still missing that type of character present in other fighting game franchises (e.g. Wang from Tekken, Aoi from Virtua Fighter).


Knowing PS though, I think they'll go for nothing but uber-flashy, sparkly fireball lunacy because new characters nowadays need to really be visually distinctive first-glance.
 

Heniek

[13] Hero
It's a really great list and an idea for a topic!
I would love to have a east-european representation but that would most notably also involve sabre so it would be either this or the ones you mentioned before. Unfortunately as @weshookhands pointed out (and what was mentioned many times in the past) they seem to take more over the top, explosion intensive, eye tearing, purple haze inducing approach and poor sabre doesn't seem to have what they need for a new character (tho I believe a fantasised sabre moveset could still look awesome)
 

LisaK

[14] Master
Seong Mina
  • Nagamaki
  • Halberd
  • Hyup Do
  • Couse (Guan Dao)
I think Angol Fear's Lucifer Spear Black is something similar to this 'Monk Spade'. I don't say they can't exist, but some of the weapons are basically skins for weapons that already exist in the game, I'm sure one of Hilde's spears is similar to Ji, not to mention Rock, his weapons during SC 3 (Giant Mace, Ropalon, Wayakin).
 
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DanteSC3

[14] Master
Given that Pyrrha literally inherits Sophitia’s weapons, I really don’t think there’s any avoiding her being a sword and shield style. Her meekness added plenty of flair to the moveset, I feel, and then her Omega form being a Nightmare Sophitia style is also quite effective at setting it apart with its savagery.

And say what you will of Alpha Patroklos “stealing” Setsuka’s style, I still do feel like his take on it is still pretty different than hers, evidenced by Setsuka fans hating it and hoping that Setsuka’s SoulCalibur VI style is not based on his take. His is more direct and forceful while hers is more elegant. Then, his sword and shield style that has done iaido tendencies to it is also quite unique, not feeling like either Cassandra or Sophitia, so I think it’s fine like it is. Pyrrha could take inspiration here and be a bit more exaggerated to her respective meek and savage extremes.

Mi-na’s style already is guan dao, if you want to be technical about it. It’s called out as the style she used to best Han-myeong, and as you noted, she has one literally in Hyup Do. Basically any type of slashy polearm style would be attributed to being too similar to Mi-na by the clone brigade, so if we get another spear type, something that focuses on thrusting should be more brought to the forefront, not so extreme perhaps as Girardot’s lance style, but something along those lines.

I do like the ideas for Natsu, Leixia, and Xiba, however. That would definitely let them have their same spirit and yet also be distinct form their past generation. Same for Rock, but that isn’t a super big differential from what he’s already doing. Aeon with the macuahuitl is a fine idea, but I think his axes and lizardisms are already fine at setting him apart. Though having him evolve into a macuahuitl instead of stealing Kratos’s style, I feel like that would serve him better. Arthur taking on SOME parts of Haohmaru wouldn’t be terrible, but I rather enjoyed the grappler aspects of his style in SoulCalibur III, so those making a return would do a lot to set him apart.

The return of the kanabo would warm my heart immensely. Kamikirimusi is sorely missed :sc4amy1:
 
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WuHT

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It's a really great list and an idea for a topic!
Its better than trying to follow Setsuka twitter drama lol

I would love to have a east-european representation but that would most notably also involve sabre so it would be either this or the ones you mentioned before. Unfortunately as @weshookhands pointed out (and what was mentioned many times in the past) they seem to take more over the top, explosion intensive, eye tearing, purple haze inducing approach and poor sabre doesn't seem to have what they need for a new character (tho I believe a fantasised sabre moveset could still look awesome)
Does anyone know what the Russian/slavs were well known for in the 1500s ? I'm feeling they also used curved single edged one handed sabers similar to the rest of central asia/middle east
Did some reading on the Finnish Coat of Arms
 

Rusted Blade

[14] Master
Its better than trying to follow Setsuka twitter drama lol


Does anyone know what the Russian/slavs were well known for in the 1500s ? I'm feeling they also used curved single edged one handed sabers similar to the rest of central asia/middle east
Did some reading on the Finnish Coat of Arms

Well, bearing in mind that Russia was already a somewhat synchronistic culture by this point, the answer regarding which weapons they were known for varies a little by region. But yes, you are absolutely correct that a curved blade (conventionally labelled a sabre under today's nomenclature) was particularly favoured throughout Western Russia in the era, and favoured not just by the slavic Cossacks and by the gentry and officers of the Northeastern Europe generally, but also the warriors of what remained of the steppe khanates--the remnants of the Golden Horde. In other words, it was the predominant weapon of choice both for professional soldiers of a certain class and of aristocrats. However, this was a period of immense martial organization in that region. The Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth was coming into its power, locked between Russia, the north German states, and the steppe peoples, and as a consequence, most soldiers were becoming highly specialized as part of the regularization of the military strength of the union (and Russia already was quite organized in this respect already, of course). My point being that the average soldier was more likely to be a pikeman, heavy cavalry was the dominant battlefield weapon, and cannons and firearms were already changing the game altogether. But the saber remained the dominant melee weapon for officers, mobile infantry, and light cavalry (hussars in particular). And it remained the weapon of choice for most duelists, resisting replacement by the rapier as in other parts of Europe.

A saber would definitely be the best weapon I can imagine to represent an Eastern European character of any stripe, and I've long-said I would love to see a sabre wielder in the series vaguely in the mold of Pan Wolodyjowski. Although, I've also ruminated that it might be better to save that general type of blade for a Persian or Indian character wielding a Pulwar or Talwar, since the cultures in question are not as yet represented in the series, while we're pretty saturated with characters from central Europe.




Responding to the thread generally, you've hit upon numerous choices that I have also wished to see: I'd love to see a return of the kanabo in any form; I 'd welcome an Aztec or Mesoamerican character, and that leaves a very narrow field of melee weapons because of the available materials /metalurgical capabilities of those cultures, of which Macuahuitl is probably undeniably the most practical and the one which best fits a SoulCalibur aesthetic; similarly dual kama seem almost like a SoulCalibur no brainer. Based on your suggestions, I think you might find the bec-de-corbin to be a interesting class of weapon which defines a number of designs that straddled the line between warhammer and polearm.

One weapon that you didn't mention which I have always thought would be nice to see is a meteor hammer or a dart whip. Sucha weapon who present unique design challenges on both a technical and gameplay level, but I love the notion.
 
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WuHT

Premium Moderator
Given that Pyrrha literally inherits Sophitia’s weapons, I really don’t think there’s any avoiding her being a sword and shield style. Her meekness added plenty of flair to the moveset, I feel, and then her Omega form being a Nightmare Sophitia style is also quite effective at setting it apart with its savagery.
Hmm yes thanks for reminding me that Pyrrha literally fights with Sophitia's weapons. It was a very long set of posts so somehow I ran out of steam at the end. Wait.. does Cassandra use the same literal sword as Sophitia ? I thoguht it was a replica made by Rothion ??


Mi-na’s style already is guan dao, if you want to be technical about it. It’s called out as the style she used to best Han-myeong, and as you noted, she has one literally in Hyup Do. Basically any type of slashy polearm style would be attributed to being too similar to Mi-na by the clone brigade, so if we get another spear type, something that focuses on thrusting should be more brought to the forefront, not so extreme perhaps as Girardot’s lance style, but something along those lines.
Couple of comments:
• Mi-na's style is definately more of the power side for the polearm in SC
• There are korean analogues Woldo / Hyupdo, but I honestly can't tell which is which on the internet.
• In terms of Guan Dao vs Pu Dao, the Guandao doesn't have a thrusting point thats aligned with the shaft, but it does have does have a couple of hooks that could pierce. The Pudao has a more gradual curve, and doesn't have the notches/hook in the back of the blade:
I think the Pudao weapon is a lot closer to her Scarlet Thunder than the Guandao, but in-game the weapons can have the same animations.

Guandao:
1595327587284.png

Pudao:
1595327834777.png

Arthur taking on SOME parts of Haohmaru wouldn’t be terrible, but I rather enjoyed the grappler aspects of his style in SoulCalibur III, so those making a return would do a lot to set him apart.
Now that I looked at his SC3 movelist, Arthur has an unusual amount of grappling attacks, some are even attack string enders.
 
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DanteSC3

[14] Master
Wait.. does Cassandra use the same literal sword as Sophitia ? I thoguht it was a replica made by Rothion ??
Originally, in SoulCalibur II, she steals Sophitia's SoulCalibur weapons (Omega Sword & Elk Shield), then when she returns, Rothion forges her a set of her own (Digamma Sword & Nemea Shield), which is why they have a unique look from SoulCalibur III onwards. SoulCalibur VI has changed this somewhat where she steals Sophitia's SoulBlade weapons (Omega Sword & Owl Shield) and leaves earlier than she did originally, because Sophitia still has her SoulCalibur weapons, so they weren't available for the taking.

But Pyrrha has Omega Sword & Elk Shield, of that there are no doubts.
 
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WuHT

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Given that Pyrrha literally inherits Sophitia’s weapons, I really don’t think there’s any avoiding her being a sword and shield style. Her meekness added plenty of flair to the moveset,
What is the best weapon for a meek pacifist? Rod's already taken.

Kilik nearly embodies a disciplined martial artist who swore a vow of pacifism, whereas Pyrrha is a tragic character in over her head as life deals her misfortune after misfortune.

The enchanted shield+sword combo actually fits pretty well, since Sophitia is also a reluctant warrior on a crusade to purify malfested.

One weapon that you didn't mention which I have always thought would be nice to see is a meteor hammer or a dart whip. Sucha weapon who present unique design challenges on both a technical and gameplay level, but I love the notion.
I haven't figured out how those weapons would even block incoming attacks, much less do basic AA/BB attacks
 

Rusted Blade

[14] Master
Given that Pyrrha literally inherits Sophitia’s weapons, I really don’t think there’s any avoiding her being a sword and shield style. Her meekness added plenty of flair to the moveset, I feel...

That's a far too generous a definition of "flair", I would argue; I couldn't stand Pyrrha Vanilla's baby-deer-learning-to-walk style of fighting. I feel that SoulCalibur already asks an awful lot of its player in terms of suspension of disbelief for its fantasy violence without adding in the idea of a character Mr. Bean-ing her way through through deadly combat. I say if she ever returns, they should preserve what they can of her core moveset without too much of the tripping over herself stuff, make her a little more faithful to the Alexandrian style generally, and then fill out the rest of her moveset with Pyrrha Omega moves, with the particularly vicious variants locked beyond a Soul Charge that has her taking on a more malfested appearance and PO stance/quality of movement.


I haven't figured out how those weapons would even block incoming attacks, much less do basic AA/BB attacks
Well, the basic from of the AA/BBs shouldn't be too problematic since there are both vertical and horizontal arcs you can perform with these types of weapons which use one a portion of the cord/chain, but I do agree the continuity of these animations coming in and out of neutral or upon interrupt would be extremely tricky to pull off in a manner that looked smooth and not eye-jarringly unrealistic. I also agree that the block animation would be tricky--although, when you think of it, they very rarely make sense under close scrutiny for most weapons in the game: I suppose the most realistic option is for the character to just hold a decent length of chain up at a slightly slanted horizontal angle? I think that would likely benefit as much from the inattention blindness factor that governs most SC movements getting processed without being marked as particularly unreasonable due to the speed of the action, even if, when isolated and paused (or contemplated that way in the abstract) they might look silly. But yeah, this style would present real significant challenges to the designers and animators, no doubt about it.
 
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DanteSC3

[14] Master
I say if she ever returns, they should preserve what they can of her core moveset without two much of the tripping over herself stuff, make her a little more faithful to the Alexandrian style generally and then fill out the rest of her moveset with Pyrrha Omega moves, with the particularly vicious variants locked beyond a Soul Charge that has her taking on a more malfested appearance and PO stance/quality of movement.
Locking Omega behind a Soul Charge, not unlike Kilik here in SoulCalibur VI, is an interesting enough idea, I just wonder if she shouldn’t also have some Nightmare Terror Charge style stuff as well, or perhaps something like Mitsurugi’s Shura Blade, because once Pyrrha does go Omega, her demon arm remained once she came back to her senses, so she could have some residual abilities or power after returning to normal. That was something I wish they were more clear on, among other things, the implication of what that entailed.

But what I mean is that she could be kind of like Amy without Rose Perception, that would be the meek style we love/hate, and then once she’s fulfilled certain conditions, or gone Omega at least once, she then fights a bit more confidently, having seen the darkness and then coming back from it. And she would be completely savage during her Omega outburst portion.

————————————————————

Stepping back to Patroklos, it we were trying to do a similar thing to combine his base form and Alpha into a single entity, then perhaps he could treat his sword and shield with more Iaito style moves, considering the shield does double as a sheath. It is used rather sparingly compared to how it could be. He could have a defensive stance where he puts the sword into the shield and then holds the shield with two hands, and perhaps could counter different kinds of moves with a iai strike based on inputs to predict the incoming attack, a GI into an unblockable style thing.

Then maybe a little more far fetched, but his Soul Charge could transform his weapons into a shinken and saya, literally making him go Alpha momentarily, where he has some of the best of the moveset available to him, but then the part where this gets dicey would be turning it back into a sword and shield again, unless it lasted the rest of the round, not unlike Mitsurugi’s Shura Blade, but still with some extra properties or longer strings only available in Soul Charge.
 

Rusted Blade

[14] Master
Locking Omega behind a Soul Charge, not unlike Kilik here in SoulCalibur VI, is an interesting enough idea, I just wonder if she shouldn’t also have some Nightmare Terror Charge style stuff as well, or perhaps something like Mitsurugi’s Shura Blade, because once Pyrrha does go Omega, her demon arm remained once she came back to her senses, so she could have some residual abilities or power after returning to normal. That was something I wish they were more clear on, among other things, the implication of what that entailed.
Yeah, I was confused about that myself. I mean, aesthetically, given the tone of resolution that is otherwise implied in that ending, you'd have thought that the scenario writer would have had her body purified to lend visual subtext to the idea that Soul Edge and SoulCalibur really were sealed away in such a manner as they could no longer influence the world. But I guess they wanted to keep the hand malfested for that little scene where Patroklos insists on taking the deformed hand in his own despite her initial embarrassment. I mean, do we know for a fact that Siegfried went back to normal instantly after breaking free from Soul Edge and reclaiming his soul? I feel like there's a canon occurrence where someone de-malfests slowly, but I can't quite put my finger on what it was, so maybe I've created the whole notion in my head.

Anyway, a fully malfested arm needn't necessarily be involved in her design at all: it might be that this Pyrrha doesn't get quite completely malfested but rather just flirts with Evil Seed energy, as some characters are known to do.

But what I mean is that she could be kind of like Amy without Rose Perception, that would be the meek style we love/hate, and then once she’s fulfilled certain conditions, or gone Omega at least once, she then fights a bit more confidently, having seen the darkness and then coming back from it.
I think you might by over-engineering it a bit. I think the simpler solution is just to make her Soul Charge one of those which is closer a to a dual character set-up (as you said above, very similar to Kilik). Her arm could get Nightmare-fist like aura of fire and energy, maybe even some ambiguity as to whether the actual fist itself has malformed. But certainly we are in agreement that when showing this aesthetic, her attacks should be brutal and aggressive--even her stance should be closer to the traditional Pyrrha Omega vibe. I also agree that additional homages to Nightmare would be appropriate.

Stepping back to Patroklos, it we were trying to do a similar thing to combine his base form and Alpha into a single entity, then perhaps he could treat his sword and shield with more Iaito style moves, considering the shield does double as a sheath. It is used rather sparingly compared to how it could be. He could have a defensive stance where he puts the sword into the shield and then holds the shield with two hands, and perhaps could counter different kinds of moves with a iai strike based on inputs to predict the incoming attack, a GI into an unblockable style thing.

Then maybe a little more far fetched, but his Soul Charge could transform his weapons into a shinken and saya, literally making him go Alpha momentarily, where he has some of the best of the moveset available to him, but then the part where this gets dicey would be turning it back into a sword and shield again, unless it lasted the rest of the round, not unlike Mitsurugi’s Shura Blade, but still with some extra properties or longer strings only available in Soul Charge.
I just don't think the argument is really there for combining Patoklos' styles. They just do not have the same degree of overlap and synergy that Pyrrha's two movesets do. Also, I think it's unlikely he will ever replace Setsuka in a game entirely again, and thus much of his Alpha moveset would be redundant. Don't get me wrong, if they want to bring their diversifying magic to the process of creating two branching approaches (Setsuka and Patsuka) to this general concept, I'm all for it. But I'm not sure I see it happening. I think Vanilla Pattycakes is plenty unique as is--probably the most unlike-all-others of the sword and shield styles. I think they ought to just focus on what made that style great but flesh it out in the fashion most legacy characters have been in this entry.
 
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RandyDrx

[05] Battler
I believe we already have iron fan and kusarigama in SC3, and I would like the lance to make a comeback in future SC games. Among the SC3 CAS weapons, I think that's one of the few which has a potential to be a quite decent weapon if they improve it's moveset.
 
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WuHT

Premium Moderator
I believe we already have iron fan and kusarigama in SC3, and I would like the lance to make a comeback in future SC games. Among the SC3 CAS weapons, I think that's one of the few which has a potential to be a quite decent weapon if they improve it's moveset.
in SC6 we were spoiled in that the dev team had a specific role/fighting style niche and developed a moveset to accentuate that.
The SC3 custom characters feel literally like randomly cobbled together attack animations (borrowing heavily from existing characters and even tekken attack animations). I suspect some of these were dropped attack animations for existing characters that they didnt bother animating properly (ie the weight of the weapon and the balance of the character's posture wasn't fully realized).

Could the Steel Fan moveset make a return ? I'm hoping so seeing as how it shares some similarities with the Jian when folded up.
 

Rusted Blade

[14] Master
in SC6 we were spoiled in that the dev team had a specific role/fighting style niche and developed a moveset to accentuate that.
The SC3 custom characters feel literally like randomly cobbled together attack animations (borrowing heavily from existing characters and even tekken attack animations). I suspect some of these were dropped attack animations for existing characters that they didnt bother animating properly (ie the weight of the weapon and the balance of the character's posture wasn't fully realized).

Could the Steel Fan moveset make a return ? I'm hoping so seeing as how it shares some similarities with the Jian when folded up.
I agree with this reading. Beyond that, there's the even more obvious factor (so obvious that I guess you just didn't think ti was worth mentioning, but I will, for sake of discussion) that their movesets were themselves extremely limited in depth (that is to say, in terms of actual number of moves, and thus tactical options), to the point that it was almost as if you were trying to compete against SCIII characters using a SCI moveset. Don't get me wrong, I do think there are elements of artistry in those bonus sets, without a doubt: and what they did with Amy, Hwang, and Li Long in AE demonstrates that there was real potential probably in almost any of those movesets. It's just something that started in SCIII and has occasionally returned to throw later entries in the series: the direction from the top being way, way too ambitious (to the detriment of the overall product) for the development period and budget.

As to which styles I would be most encouraged to see return...well speaking first to the options discussed already, I am mixed on the Steel Fan: it's definitely at the edge of a realistically effective weapon, even with the substantial Soulcalibur realism discount. But with the right approach I think it could be sold without it looking awful. I'm less keen on the 'lance': that particular weight and morphology for a weapon is designed to focus a certain amount of forward momentum into the tip of point, with the person directing that force staying mostly motionless and only adjusting the final vector of that source by a small bit (in the grand scheme of range of motion), while resting upon the creature actually driving the force. It really makes so little sense used outside that context/as a melee weapon, that it jars my sense of suspension of disbelief almost as hard as some of the more magical styles. At the time, I did like some of Giardot's flash, but in a tight contest for new weapons (and especially in a discussion where we are talking about having at least something of an eye towards realism) it just is nowhere near the first choice for me.

On the other hand, one style I would like to see return is quasi-apocryphal as well (though by no means necessarily impractical as a weapon as far as I have ever been able to ascertain from a purely kinesthetic/newtonian motion argument--it just never really seems to have caught on anywhere, outside some Hong Kong action flicks and other works that borrowed from them, SCIII included): grieve edge. I'd love to see that developed into a fully three-dimensional style.

Amongst the remaining bonus character movesets, I really think it's past time for Arthur to get his proper due: I really do think he was a prime choice to be a fourth SCII:AE promoted-to-full-character moveset, and it's just another reason why I felt (and to some extent still do) that Haohmaru was a bizarre choice of guest. I also see lots of potential in Abelia, Chester, Greed, Luna and Strife, though some of them are obviously redundancies on basic root style archetypes that already get a bit of love in the series (sword and shield, massive sword, xians, ect.). Obviously some of those character designs are pretty questionable and I'm talking more about the moveset itself where I reference those characters. Except in the case of Arthur--he reasonably gets bootstrapped a little by virtue of being a longer-term cannon character.
 
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Raryiel

[08] Mercenary
Just a few ideas and movesets that can be used.


* Short Staff

A short staff in the drunk kung fu style.

* Daisho

A complement for Mitsurugi

* Claws

Tekken 7 Zafina Moveset

* Axe + Dagger

For Honor Shaman Moveset

* Dual Daggers


Tekken 7 Kunimitsu Moveset

* Wind Fire Wheels

Dead Or Alive 6 Helena & Tekken 7 Xiaoyu Moveset

* Cestus

Tekken 7 Mishima Characters Moveset

* Some exotic Twin Blades

For Honor Aramusha Moveset

* Machetes

Used in Capoeira.
Tekken 7 Eddy e SC3 Lynette Moveset

* Bagua Rooster Knives

DOA 6 Kokoro Moveset

* Wrist Blades


Tekken 7 Claudio Moveset can be adapted for that weapon

* 1 handed Mace

Tekken 7 Negan Moveset

* Shamshir + Separ

SC Link & Abelia Moveset

* Shield + Axe + 1h Flail + Trident

SC4 Lizard Man Moveset as primary stance
For Honor Conqueror & Gladiator Moveset as secondary stances

* Single Long Tonfa


* Dual Sickles

Virtua Fighter Lion Moveset