Why do people spam

So all of you consider spam as a legitamate way to fight, and then you bash it by saying "spammers are the easiest to fight and beat". Dealing with spammers online is hard when blocking a low on reaction is hurt by the latency. No matter how good your leet skills are, if latency is high enough, your reaction is not fast enough to block, your reflexes blocked the attack, but you got hit since the delay was long enough. So when people specifically use someone like mitsu, and then use high low mixups in the presence of any button delay, you consider that a legitamate fight?

Another problem is interrupting such a mixup after blocking when there is button delay.

Yes people spam because they win, yes you can beat spammers in the right conditions. Everyone needs to get off their high horse about how its this easy, blah blah to beat a spammer, blah blah.

I beat a mitsu today in a shaky 4 connection with Sieg online today. He used 1A and the vertical attack that leads to the downward stab. During the second match, our connection dropped to a 3. His strategy continued to work, where as anything I wanted to do became unresponsive. He won the second match revolving his whole strategy around 2 attacks.

That kind of strategy is fine when you can DEAL with it, but when button delay becomes an issue, then spam characters take advantage. Sorry but its the truth.
 
You missed an important point: Who gives a shit?

Seriously, if the connection drops bad enough that crappy tactics beat you, your not playing the game anyway. You might as well laugh it off, spam something stupid untill one of you is blessed by the gods of luck and lag, and then just move on. You don't gain anything by badly aping proper tactics in a shit connection. When I play a match and it drops to 3 bars or less, I'm not playing anymore. Sure, I'm hitting buttons and stuff untill the end of the fight, and sometimes even trying to make moves come out - but that's just 'cause dropping is rude and I don't mind taking an unearned loss just to be polite from time to time.

Seriously, the most douchebag attitude in the history of fighting games is the notion that someone has to be 'worthy' to beat you.
 
Are you guys even talking about spammers anymore? Or just people who use mixups with a limited moveset? If it's the former, learn to deal with it. If it's the latter, yes, mixups are harder to deal with online and leads to a guessing game. That's just how it is and no amount of complaining is going to fix it, so maybe you'd just be better off playing offline.

I stand by my previous statement.
 
Spammers online only generally use 2 attacks. A low and a mid, sure its a mixup, but when they are only winning with that strategy due to button delay, then yes its bullshit. I wish for being able to play with people offline, but apparently there are no communities in TN. Maybe Ill try a thread in the offline board and see if anyone bites, but my hopes aren't high. So online is really the only thing I got.

I especially give a shit when the mitsu that beat me in that second match was proud of his win. He only won because the connection dropped, and mitsu does well in lag. Yet he was proud he beat me as if it was some sort of accomplishment. That kind of shit pisses me off.

To top it all off, he wasn't even an aggressive mitsu, he was probably the most passive mitsu I have ever fought that knew more of what mitsu could do and didnt bother. No im not talking about the entire movelist. Im talking his stances, move based GIs, and rush attacks.
 
Here's the thing... you say they're only using 2 attacks, but I seriously doubt your opponent is literally using 2 attacks the whole fight. Maybe that's true, but in my thousand-plus online fights, I've never seen anyone do that. So hyperbole aside, I get your point... they're not using a very robust moveset. On a very poor connection, isn't that sort of necessary? I don't know about you, but on 3 bars I have a really hard time getting my inputs to even work, so I basically have to dumb my gameplay down to a few moves. But along those lines, I try to avoid 3 bar fights and certainly don't blame the other player for anything when the connection goes bad because really... who cares? A 3 bar fight isn't any good to begin with, no matter who wins.

As far as being pissed off about a player who boasts about winning a laggy fight, you can't spend your life being angry at stupid people. If you do, you won't have time for anything else in life, because stupid people are EVERYWHERE, not just in your video games.
 
I just think it's kind of funny to watch yourself get beat to the punch (literally) no matter what you attmept to do, you are either interrupted or TC'd.

Then once your body is lifeless and lying infront of your opponent, they continue to spam random attacks like K.
sometimes it looks like they aren't even really watching the screen, only hitting random buttons with their hands while their attention is elsewhere.

I think that's the essence of spam... but if a player is using fast attacks in a pattern that really doesn't let you get in an attack edgewise, then it's simply a matter of their stratedgy with the character they've chosen being superior to your ability to counter with the character you've chosen.

Dont' get upset.
 
DiBiddilyBop said:
Here's the thing... you say they're only using 2 attacks, but I seriously doubt your opponent is literally using 2 attacks the whole fight. Maybe that's true, but in my thousand-plus online fights, I've never seen anyone do that. So hyperbole aside, I get your point... they're not using a very robust moveset. On a very poor connection, isn't that sort of necessary? I don't know about you, but on 3 bars I have a really hard time getting my inputs to even work, so I basically have to dumb my gameplay down to a few moves. But along those lines, I try to avoid 3 bar fights and certainly don't blame the other player for anything when the connection goes bad because really... who cares? A 3 bar fight isn't any good to begin with, no matter who wins.

As far as being pissed off about a player who boasts about winning a laggy fight, you can't spend your life being angry at stupid people. If you do, you won't have time for anything else in life, because stupid people are EVERYWHERE, not just in your video games.
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His strategy revolved around those two attacks, and he would throw out another occasionally, but yes you get my point. Except that wasn't because of the connection, the two people he had been talking to. . . I linked into a 3 man mic situation, he told the mitsu I beat at first "this is how you use said attack, watch his range, hes fast, watch your feet, blah blah" he was trying to coach the guy when he fought me. I beat him, and the kilik that followed with my sieg. When he stepped up we had a crappy 4 connection, but it was good enough to fight in. The second match me and him had it dropped to 3 halfway through. The thing is that its like his strategy was setup for drops like that. As in the drop didn't alter his strategy, he was prepared for it.
 
Wait, if the connection drop didn't alter his strategy, isn't that the point? If you can play the same in heavy lag as you can in virtually no lag, isn't that pretty much mission accomplished for any player?
 
Meh, I always host and kick all 3 bars and lower, and most of the 4 bar players unless there are 5-bar players joining.

No hard feelings or anything, it's just I'm trying to improve my game and online is the simplest/closest way for me to get some comp without driving couple hours away. Of course, even 5-bars is far from being lagless, which is why I want to be as close to lagless play as possible.

The delay difference from 5-bars to 4-bars is pretty big too so I stick to only 5-bar players.
 
KingZeal said:
Wait, if the connection drop didn't alter his strategy, isn't that the point? If you can play the same in heavy lag as you can in virtually no lag, isn't that pretty much mission accomplished for any player?
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Not really, it defeats the purpose if a character can be played with a strategy that works in both no delay and delay.
 
That makes no sense whatsoever. If a character can be played the same in both lag and no lag, then that's no fault of the player's. That just means you have to beat the strategy, period.
 
I'd say that it's hardly a strategy. I'll put the normal strategy in black, and the so-called online strategy in red, to make things clear.


1. Choose Mitsurugi.
2. Learn 2K,B.
3. Learn some verticals.
4. Learn 1A and 1A,B.
5. Win matches.
Online. Win matches.
Online with heavy lag. Win matches.

The point that I'm trying to make here is that Mitsurugi doesn't need to adapt at all. He just has to keep playing the way that he's intended to be played. And some characters, like Taki, just have to dumb themselves down. Most other characters stand no chance against that, unless the spammer is really, really horrible. (Again, that's all when there's heavy, typical 3 bars match, lag.)
 
Again, I don't find that to be a fault of the player. Ranting about wins based on lag is just the start of hair-splitting that isn't worth it in the long run. I'm sure that you, like everyone else at some point, have won a match because of a move that connected that would have been otherwise dealt with had lag not been a factor. Yes, I agree than some characters are easier to use than others in lag, but like I said, that's just splitting hairs. Both players are going to have to make SOME adjustments to lag, and it's pointless to get frustrated because one guy did it better.

We all know that online Soul Calibur is not a faithful representation of the game, so what's the point of taking such things seriously?
 
KingZeal said:
Both players are going to have to make SOME adjustments to lag, and it's pointless to get frustrated because one guy did it better.
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Under severe lag, when the Mitsurugi player wins, I doubt that it's because he adapted better.
Might as well say that in tournaments, when Cassandra wins against Rock, it's because Cassandra played better.


I guess that it's exactly the reason why some of us find this situation frustrating.
The Mitsurugi idiot who wins under heavy lag probably feels proud and believes, like you do, that he did the most work, and adapted better than his opponent.
When I lose in these situations, I wish they knew that they didn't deserve their win at all.


Edit: I don't care as much as I might seem. These situations happen rarely... But when it happens, it's disgusting.
 
Plume said:
Under severe lag, when the Mitsurugi player wins, I doubt that it's because he adapted better.
Might as well say that in tournaments, when Cassandra wins against Rock, it's because Cassandra played better.
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you lose in a tourney with a low tier character, discrediting the skill of the other player is a disservice. You knew what you were getting into when you picked Rock against Cassandra, and if your opponent knows how to abuse matchups, so did he or she. So, yeah, in a sense, he or she did play better.


I guess that it's exactly the reason why some of us find this situation frustrating.
The Mitsurugi idiot who wins under heavy lag probably feels proud and believes, like you do, that he did the most work, and adapted better than his opponent.
When I lose in these situations, I wish they knew that they didn't deserve their win at all.
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Then just take that feeling and go with it. Who cares what that player thinks, seriously?

Look, I'd be lying if I said I didn't sometimes get frustrated if I lose to someone doing the dumbest strategy in the world just because I tried to GI it and got screwed from lag. But, my point is that you're not doing yourself any favors by getting bent out of shape about it. Their win doesn't discredit your skill; it doesn't confirm that they have any, either. Just take it for what it was and either wait for your next turn or find another opponent with a better connection and, if you're so inclined, a character you feel more comfortable facing online.

But again, this is splitting hairs horribly. I'm sure that, as a Setsuka player, you've hit good opponents with 2A+B. Do you think that every time you did it, it was based purely on skill?
 
Well, we mostly agree, then...
I disagree about offline tourney characters, but online, when I face one of those, it's exactly what I do. Except that instead of leaving after the match, I'd think that it's better to leave during the very first round and not bother at all, because doing your best and losing because of lag is what makes it that much disgusting.

I wish I was better with words. It's at least the fifth time that I have an "argument" with someone who I mostly agree with.



Edit: You're right about 2A+B. And I agree so much with you that, for a while, I completely stopped using this move for this very reason. (Although I started using it from time to time again...)
 
One thing I can say is that I've never stopped using lows, throws, or any other mixup just because it's hard to block/break online. I'm well aware that there have been times that I've won games because I happened to hit an opponent with Setsuka/Hilde's 2A+B when they were well aware that it was coming and failed to stop it, but the way I figure it, underusing a move because of lag is no better than overusing it because of lag. Their mixups are just as hard for me to stop as it is for them.

I'm just not one of those who believes that online skill does not translate offline because I've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary. For example, playing online has helped me learn how to block Taki's bombs and duck Voldo's unblockable dive on reaction.
 
KingZeal said:
One thing I can say is that I've never stopped using lows, throws, or any other mixup just because it's hard to block/break online. I'm well aware that there have been times that I've won games because I happened to hit an opponent with Setsuka/Hilde's 2A+B when they were well aware that it was coming and failed to stop it, but the way I figure it, underusing a move because of lag is no better than overusing it because of lag. Their mixups are just as hard for me to stop as it is for them.

I'm just not one of those who believes that online skill does not translate offline because I've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary. For example, playing online has helped me learn how to block Taki's bombs and duck Voldo's unblockable dive on reaction.
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Im with you on this, training with the edgemaster, and playing online has increased my knowledge of the characters, and my defense of some movesets. Online mostly with counteradaptation to a guy I play with alot.

KingZeal said:
Again, I don't find that to be a fault of the player. Ranting about wins based on lag is just the start of hair-splitting that isn't worth it in the long run. I'm sure that you, like everyone else at some point, have won a match because of a move that connected that would have been otherwise dealt with had lag not been a factor. Yes, I agree than some characters are easier to use than others in lag, but like I said, that's just splitting hairs. Both players are going to have to make SOME adjustments to lag, and it's pointless to get frustrated because one guy did it better.

We all know that online Soul Calibur is not a faithful representation of the game, so what's the point of taking such things seriously?
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Maybe so, but if I dont take online seriously then i might as well not play at all. I dont have any offline comp from what Ive found so yeah, I need offline.

Most of my wins however come down to did the person let go of the G button just before my attack connected because they were going to counter, evade.
 
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